Author Topic: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series - Season 1  (Read 128652 times)

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Offline Adam

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #975 on: September 03, 2021, 06:48:PM »
The judge said Julie & Jeremy had committed crimes in the past. However it does not mean that either lied during testimony.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #976 on: September 03, 2021, 07:26:PM »
Stan Jones is alleged to have said this.

“I can’t even see anybody using the phone in that kitchen, the state of it, do you know what I mean. There’s no way I want to use that phone”

He is referring to the state of the kitchen i.e stuff all over the floor with a dead body and a pool of blood ect ect. Not the phone itself.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8404.msg400313.html#msg400313

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #977 on: September 03, 2021, 07:48:PM »
What is your evidence that Jeremy moved any phones?

How long was Douglas Pike at the farmhouse to form this evaluation of Sheila's mood, composure and parenting skills that you seem to want us to rely on?

Assuming Mr Pike's visit was brief and did not consist of a detailed observational study of Sheila and the children, why should Mr Pike's opinion override that of others, including people who lived with Sheila and professionals?

If somebody came and took the kitchen phone away, isn't it logical to assume that this was replaced with another phone and this explains why there was no phone in the master bedroom?

The CT say they have a document.  Have you seen it?  If not, how do you know there is no credible evidence?

I don't understand what you mean.  The point of all this is that her evidence requires us to rely on things she says that Jeremy told her when no-one else was present or could hear.  It is not to say her own criminality means she was lying, but it is to say that it must be a factor for consideration in the round, together with other personal factors, such as Jeremy's decision to split up with her.

You and Adam make the argument that it was just one criminal act and it was minor.  Even if that is accepted, it still raises questions about her judgement and moral character.  She was of mature age at this point - I think she was 20.  People don't go on 'white collar crime sprees' at the age of 20 unless they have serious moral defects or broad psychological issues (wanting attention, etc.).  You say it was 'spur-of-the-moment', but this is disingenuous.  The plan itself may have been spur-of-the-moment, but you don't do something like that unless you have an inclination to do it.

Also, her criminal career did not just consist of one crime.  Both you and Adam mislead people on here about this, and since you don't want new members "brainwashed", I think we should make it clear that she committed other offences.  She assisted Jeremy with the robbery and also with smuggling drugs from the Netherlands. You will say that these escapades were Jeremy's idea.  Maybe, but it is unclear how much Jeremy was influenced by Julie.  It is also alleged that she was involved in other things on her own account, including smuggling drugs from Canada.  I completely accept that Julie Smerchanski is an upstanding lady.  We're not talking about her.  We're talking about Julie Mugford, who in a sense was a completely different person, and hardly an upstanding character.

At trial, there was nothing in her evidence that only the killer could have told her.  (Adam has attempted to demonstrate otherwise, but I was able to take that apart effortlessly. Not that he took any notice).

There was also the part in her evidence when she claimed that she volunteered to identify the bodies in the morgue because she wanted to channel their spirits.  What was that all about?

Julie also mislead the court about her deal with the News of the World.  I now know what the evidence is for that.  I haven't actually seen it myself, but a summary of it has been imparted to me, and it sounds very credible indeed.

She also allowed the court to be misled about her criminal record.

A truthful picture is not quite how you present it, though at the same time, I can understand why you would want to defend her.  If Jeremy is guilty, then she helped to convict him.

Yet let us not forget what she did after Jeremy was convicted (or maybe before, who knows?).  She posed for a rather racy snap that was published the next day in a scummy tabloid.

I repeat again that I do not airily dismiss Julie or her evidence.  I am sceptical of her evidence, but I have thought-through reasons for that position.  I add these remarks for balance, as I cannot abide the disingenuousness of both agenda-riven camps in this case.  In the Bamber case, the truth is the first victim.
What sanctimonious guff this all is. You may have been influenced by one of your role models, Matthew Steeples, who seems to have paraded himself about in life quite a bit with few tangible results. Kindred spirits methinks.

The telephones were moved around the house, and by the murder evening the master bedroom was devoid of one. Yet there was a telephone in good working order hidden amongst magazines. Did Jeremy ever pause to think that his mother might have wished for a little comfort and privacy and placed one of them in her room? Or is this the same man who was not on speaking terms with her and by the end of it all expressly manifested his contempt for her, her values and everything she stood for?

Douglas Pike took away the inoperable cordless telephone, which June didn't like and didn't use. This was at 10:30am on Monday 5th August, and the description of the incident and Mr. Pike's impression you can read on a previous thread. Jeremy had always been jealous of any normal, homely family scene because he had always in his own mind been deprived of such and the new family he attempted to create with Suzette proved abortive.

We have further indications of the state of the family up to and incuding Pamela's telephone call at 10:00pm the following evening. On the Monday Jean Boutell stayed until 3:30pm. The twins were settled in the kitchen, reading Little Red Hen, with Nevill and June. June, Sheila and the children went to the Osea Road shop late in the afternoon, as evidenced by Stuart Sinclair's statement, again nothing amiss. In the early evening Sheila and the twins waved to Philip Wilson, who was driving the tractor down Pages Lane. Is this when Nicholas expressed a wish to climb up onto a tractor, a wish which his mother granted the following day and the incident where details are scant and which Uncle Jeremy is so reticent about?

Regine Pargeter telephoned the Farm that same evening. Sheila had bathed the boys and put them to bed. Sheila then telephoned her friend Yvonne and arranged to meet her at 10:30am on the Wednesday. Hardly the actions of a woman contemplating suicide.

You once again dish the dirt on Julie, not differing much in your approach from Jackie in this regard. Julie's crimes were spur of the moment, white collar, which are crimes yes, but never to be placed in the same category as violence, terrorism or murder. She was hounded out of her job as Primary Teacher due to unscruplous Press behaviour and got tabloid journalists off her back by selling her story to the highest bidder, which happened to be the News of the World. Had Jeremy got off he was in line for a substantial payment from The Sun newspaper.

Julie did not mislead the court, as you've parroted from the Matthew Steeples video. It seems to me you two have a lot in common and exist symbiotically, Matthew having the superficiality of a little more class and breeding, but after the spadework has been completed often like yourself arriving at the most erroneous of conclusions.




Offline David1819

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #978 on: September 03, 2021, 08:00:PM »


I also disagree with you when you suggest that this scenario would be a misinterpretation of the document you produced at #935 above.  It can be reconciled with that document.



Not when you include this document into the equation also.



Offline Roch

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #979 on: September 03, 2021, 08:16:PM »
Stan Jones is alleged to have said this.

“I can’t even see anybody using the phone in that kitchen, the state of it, do you know what I mean. There’s no way I want to use that phone”

He is referring to the state of the kitchen i.e stuff all over the floor with a dead body and a pool of blood ect ect. Not the phone itself.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8404.msg400313.html#msg400313

With regards to other options for police using a phone in the farmhouse, can you please remind me, where were the other phones located?  Genuine question.

Offline David1819

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #980 on: September 03, 2021, 08:22:PM »
With regards to other options for police using a phone in the farmhouse, can you please remind me, where were the other phones located?  Genuine question.

There was one in the kitchen and one in the upstairs office.

Offline Rob_

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #981 on: September 03, 2021, 08:56:PM »
Not when you include this document into the equation also.



I thought the line was closed down much earlier than 8.00? nice to see a statement taken relatively soon after the event!

There are lots of little bits of evidence pointing to the possibility of someone still being alive, I keep thinking about the two bodies on entry etc. it's the time difference between when the logs says a further three etc. that bothers me.

Offline Roch

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #982 on: September 03, 2021, 09:03:PM »
There was one in the kitchen and one in the upstairs office.

Ok, well that aids your theory. Is the context that Jones is trying deflect the notion that an officer used the kitchen phone per se? Why is it claimed by the defence that it was the kitchen phone used by an officer?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2021, 09:10:AM by Roch »

guest29835

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #983 on: September 03, 2021, 09:24:PM »
What sanctimonious guff this all is.

Not an argument.

You may have been influenced by one of your role models, Matthew Steeples, who seems to have paraded himself about in life quite a bit with few tangible results. Kindred spirits methinks.

In fact, I have low regard for Matthew Steeples' journalism and have been critical of him on here.  You must not have seen that.  (Note: I have no view on Mr Steeples as a person.  I don't know him and any criticism I make of him is not personal to him and is not intended to offend him).

The telephones were moved around the house, and by the murder evening the master bedroom was devoid of one. Yet there was a telephone in good working order hidden amongst magazines. Did Jeremy ever pause to think that his mother might have wished for a little comfort and privacy and placed one of them in her room? Or is this the same man who was not on speaking terms with her and by the end of it all expressly manifested his contempt for her, her values and everything she stood for?

This doesn't tell me what evidence you have that Jeremy moved any of the phones.

Douglas Pike took away the inoperable cordless telephone, which June didn't like and didn't use. This was at 10:30am on Monday 5th August, and the description of the incident and Mr. Pike's impression you can read on a previous thread. Jeremy had always been jealous of any normal, homely family scene because he had always in his own mind been deprived of such and the new family he attempted to create with Suzette proved abortive.

Again, this does not answer my question. I imply from this that Douglas Pike only formed a momentary impression of Sheila and the boys, which means that his evidence is of little or no value to us.

We have further indications of the state of the family up to and incuding Pamela's telephone call at 10:00pm the following evening. On the Monday Jean Boutell stayed until 3:30pm. The twins were settled in the kitchen, reading Little Red Hen, with Nevill and June. June, Sheila and the children went to the Osea Road shop late in the afternoon, as evidenced by Stuart Sinclair's statement, again nothing amiss. In the early evening Sheila and the twins waved to Philip Wilson, who was driving the tractor down Pages Lane. Is this when Nicholas expressed a wish to climb up onto a tractor, a wish which his mother granted the following day and the incident where details are scant and which Uncle Jeremy is so reticent about?

I don't see the relevance of all this.  It seems to me you want it both ways.  You want to be able to talk up Sheila's abilities when it suits, then in the next breath you want to tell us she was a zombie.  Likewise, you want to minimise Julie Mugford's criminality while giantising every tiny discernible character fault of Jeremy Bamber.

Your problem is simply this: you're biased.

Regine Pargeter telephoned the Farm that same evening. Sheila had bathed the boys and put them to bed. Sheila then telephoned her friend Yvonne and arranged to meet her at 10:30am on the Wednesday. Hardly the actions of a woman contemplating suicide.

None of this tells me she could not have committed suicide.  In evidence for the defence, a very eminent psychiatrist posited that Sheila had ritually cleansed herself prior to committing suicide.  Sheila's own psychiatrist stated (words to the effect) that the actions of a schizophrenic cannot be rationally understood.

You once again dish the dirt on Julie, not differing much in your approach from Jackie in this regard. Julie's crimes were spur of the moment, white collar, which are crimes yes, but never to be placed in the same category as violence, terrorism or murder. She was hounded out of her job as Primary Teacher due to unscruplous Press behaviour and got tabloid journalists off her back by selling her story to the highest bidder, which happened to be the News of the World.

Here you concede that everything I say is true.  Yet you continue with your stubborn insistence that Julie's crime was 'spur-of-the-moment'.  It may be narrowly true that it was a spontaneous crime spree, but you know well enough that the offences were part of a pattern of behaviour and not isolated.  My point is vindicated and no more need be said.

Had Jeremy got off he was in line for a substantial payment from The Sun newspaper.

That is immaterial.  Jeremy was the defendant and so could give evidence in his own defence while also arranging deals with newspapers without it impugning the trial.  Julie's position was not the same because she was a prosecution witness, and so any such deal could bring her evidence into question.  It would be more honest of you and other guilters if you could acknowledge this point, which is only a statement of how the law works. 

I do agree with guilters that, if Jeremy did have a similar deal, it was perhaps tasteless of him, but we don't know what Jeremy planned to say.  Did Jeremy intend to pose in his swimming trunks with a gaggle of attractive ladies?  At any rate, there is no legal significance in it, whereas in the case of Julie there is.

Julie did not mislead the court, as you've parroted from the Matthew Steeples video.

No, I have not parroted it from the Matthew Steeples video.  I have mentioned it myself on this very Forum a number of times in threads and posts that pre-date that video.  I have discussed it at length in threads with NGB1066 and Adam.  I have no need for Matthew Steeples.  I beat him to it.  She clearly did mislead the court.  The evidence now available to support this seems credible.  She also allowed the court to be misled about her criminal record.  Sorry but these are facts.  Like it or not. 

It seems to me you two have a lot in common and exist symbiotically, Matthew having the superficiality of a little more class and breeding, but after the spadework has been completed often like yourself arriving at the most erroneous of conclusions.

You have now got a bee in your bonnet about Matthew Steeples, and you seem to want to link me to him, when I have already made clear that I do not rate Matthew Steeples very highly as a journalist and I think his case knowledge is poor.  I would never rely on anything he said.

In fact, I have done my own spadework on this case.  I had been reading about this case for years prior to joining this Forum and I have read every thread on this Forum and downloaded all Mike's documents and read those.

That's spadework!  I have also contributed my own ideas and theories on the case - some of which are original (as even Adam has conceded once or twice).   I could write a book on the case myself. 

I don't need Matthew Steeples, thank you.  I am brighter than he is and I am offended that you think I should need him.  Until maybe two or so months ago, I had not even heard of him. I am the diametric opposite of Matthew Steeples.  I actually do the spadework and when, as in this case, neutrality is warranted for the sake of intellectual integrity, I maintain my neutrality and jealousy guard it.

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #984 on: September 03, 2021, 09:32:PM »
Not when you include this document into the equation also.



Sorry but I don't see how that helps.  The lady operator giving that statement admits that she does not have personal knowledge of what happened on the line. She says the police were still monitoring the line when she went off-duty at 8.00 a.m., but she was not monitoring the line, so we don't know if they actually were or what 'monitoring the line' is supposed to mean.

Offline JackieD

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #985 on: September 03, 2021, 09:58:PM »
Not an argument.

In fact, I have low regard for Matthew Steeples' journalism and have been critical of him on here.  You must not have seen that.  (Note: I have no view on Mr Steeples as a person.  I don't know him and any criticism I make of him is not personal to him and is not intended to offend him).

This doesn't tell me what evidence you have that Jeremy moved any of the phones.

Again, this does not answer my question. I imply from this that Douglas Pike only formed a momentary impression of Sheila and the boys, which means that his evidence is of little or no value to us.

I don't see the relevance of all this.  It seems to me you want it both ways.  You want to be able to talk up Sheila's abilities when it suits, then in the next breath you want to tell us she was a zombie.  Likewise, you want to minimise Julie Mugford's criminality while giantising every tiny discernible character fault of Jeremy Bamber.

Your problem is simply this: you're biased.

None of this tells me she could not have committed suicide.  In evidence for the defence, a very eminent psychiatrist posited that Sheila had ritually cleansed herself prior to committing suicide.  Sheila's own psychiatrist stated (words to the effect) that the actions of a schizophrenic cannot be rationally understood.

Here you concede that everything I say is true.  Yet you continue with your stubborn insistence that Julie's crime was 'spur-of-the-moment'.  It may be narrowly true that it was a spontaneous crime spree, but you know well enough that the offences were part of a pattern of behaviour and not isolated.  My point is vindicated and no more need be said.

That is immaterial.  Jeremy was the defendant and so could give evidence in his own defence while also arranging deals with newspapers without it impugning the trial.  Julie's position was not the same because she was a prosecution witness, and so any such deal could bring her evidence into question.  It would be more honest of you and other guilters if you could acknowledge this point, which is only a statement of how the law works. 

I do agree with guilters that, if Jeremy did have a similar deal, it was perhaps tasteless of him, but we don't know what Jeremy planned to say.  Did Jeremy intend to pose in his swimming trunks with a gaggle of attractive ladies?  At any rate, there is no legal significance in it, whereas in the case of Julie there is.

No, I have not parroted it from the Matthew Steeples video.  I have mentioned it myself on this very Forum a number of times in threads and posts that pre-date that video.  I have discussed it at length in threads with NGB1066 and Adam.  I have no need for Matthew Steeples.  I beat him to it.  She clearly did mislead the court.  The evidence now available to support this seems credible.  She also allowed the court to be misled about her criminal record.  Sorry but these are facts.  Like it or not. 

You have now got a bee in your bonnet about Matthew Steeples, and you seem to want to link me to him, when I have already made clear that I do not rate Matthew Steeples very highly as a journalist and I think his case knowledge is poor.  I would never rely on anything he said.

In fact, I have done my own spadework on this case.  I had been reading about this case for years prior to joining this Forum and I have read every thread on this Forum and downloaded all Mike's documents and read those.

That's spadework!  I have also contributed my own ideas and theories on the case - some of which are original (as even Adam has conceded once or twice).   I could write a book on the case myself. 

I don't need Matthew Steeples, thank you.  I am brighter than he is and I am offended that you think I should need him.  Until maybe two or so months ago, I had not even heard of him. I am the diametric opposite of Matthew Steeples.  I actually do the spadework and when, as in this case, neutrality is warranted for the sake of intellectual integrity, I maintain my neutrality and jealousy guard it.

Although you still think Jeremy may be guilty I would love to read your book
Julie Mugford the main prosecution witness was guilty of numerous crimes, 13 separate cheque frauds, robbery, and drug dealing and also making a deal with a national newspaper before trial that if she could convince a jury her ex boyfriend was guilty of five murders she would receive £25,000

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #986 on: September 03, 2021, 10:05:PM »
I don't need to giantize Bamber's faults. He stole money from the family business, sold cannabis on the side, killed five members of his adopted family, laughed about it behind closed doors, refused to allow devout June to be buried as she would have wished, attempted to sell lewd photographs of his dead sister and a whole load of other family heirlooms, shoved the twins' possessions into a binbag for Colin to collect and went on foreign jaunts with the blood money.

He is a thoroughly evil human being.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2021, 10:08:PM by Steve_uk »

guest29835

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #987 on: September 03, 2021, 11:25:PM »
I don't need to giantize Bamber's faults. He stole money from the family business, sold cannabis on the side, killed five members of his adopted family, laughed about it behind closed doors, refused to allow devout June to be buried as she would have wished, attempted to sell lewd photographs of his dead sister and a whole load of other family heirlooms, shoved the twins' possessions into a binbag for Colin to collect and went on foreign jaunts with the blood money.

He is a thoroughly evil human being.

Are you sure about all these?

(i). He did steal money from the family business.  You are right about that.  But he did it once and you did say we should ignore things that people do once, so let us be consistent and call it a - what was that phrase you were using earlier? - 'spur-of-the-moment' 'white collar crime spree'.  Let's also remember that, when confronted about it, he admitted it.  He didn't have to come clean.  He could have just remained silent or even brazened it out and put them to proof.  Since he is supposed to be guilty, what would he have had to lose?  Where I do agree with guilters about this is that the whole excuse he gave at the time, and maintains now, that he was checking security arrangements is just spurious.  Clearly he robbed the site for the money.  We know he did it for that motive, because he promptly spent the money.

(ii). He did sell cannabis on the side.  Not necessarily the worst crime and lots of young men of similar character engage in that kind of minor offending.  What is bad about the drugs side of things is that he also trafficked drugs into the country for resale, which tells me he was on his way to getting himself into serious trouble at some point anyway.

(iii). You are correct that he was convicted of killing five members of his family.  This whole forum is about whether he actually did it, but at this point in time he stands convicted.

(iv). Jeremy denies laughing about the shootings behind closed doors, but even if he did laugh, it's not a crime and it doesn't mean he committed the killings.  People even laugh and joke at funerals sometimes.  I'm not sure what we can deduce from it, and it's dangerous to make deductions about odd, erratic or eccentric behaviour because we may be stringing together isolated facts that have no particular significance. Jeremy was somewhat immature.  That doesn't mean he was a murderer.  He played around with Julie in the back of the car [Q. What does that say about Julie?  Nobody asks that], but that may have been a way of relieving tension and/or a reaction to grief.  It's not often that your parents' funeral is filmed live in front of the world's media.

(v). Jeremy disputes what you say about June's funeral arrangements.  He says that, as June was murdered, it was appropriate that she should be cremated and this was in line with June's Christian beliefs. 

(vi). The allegation that he attempted to sell lewd photographs of his sister is disputed by Jeremy and relies on the word of a particularly scummy tabloid journalist who was well-known for telling lies, making things up and exaggerating, and is now deceased.  I see no reason to believe the journalist.  It may also be that there is no reason to believe Jeremy, but the two cancel each other out.  I can't remember what Brett Collins, who was supposed to be there, has to say about it all, but I'm equally reluctant to believe a word he says - which probably explains why I've forgotten.  If Brett Collins told me the time of day, I'd have to ring up the Greenwich Meridian to double-check.  There are also one or two chronological holes in the story.  For instance, it's said that Jeremy would have had nothing to sell, as the negatives had been taken by Colin.  Colin may contradict this, but then, Colin has every reason to be biased.  Moreover, Colin wrote a book about how robins solve murders and Betty Shine revealed his destiny, so I'm not sure what credence can be put on things he says. 

(vii). Jeremy sold family heirlooms because that is what he was entitled to do, and supposed to do.  Unless you're suggesting that he should have maintained The White House as it was, as if his parents were still living there?  Like a museum?  That is rather ridiculous.  Maybe he did act with some insensitivity, but he was adopted, so would not have had the same emotional connection to the heirlooms as a blood son would have had.  I suppose you blame him for that too?  He would also have had bills to pay and, if he is innocent, he would have been grieving amidst it all.  I also find it doubtful that he murdered five people just so that he could sell some antiques.

(viii). If it is true that Jeremy cleared out the twins' possessions and put them in bin bags, that was insensitive, but I'm not sure what can be read into it.  People can be insensitive.  Jeremy was an arrogant young man - that is not disputed by most people.  I feel sorry for Colin in that situation because he must have felt that he had suffered loss upon loss and that he had lost a tangible connection with his sons that he wanted to say Goodbye to, in one final poignant moment.  That's horrible, but it doesn't make Jeremy 'evil' or a murderer. 

(ix). Jeremy went on holiday.  People go on holiday.  You call that 'foreign jaunts with the blood money'.  Are you saying when a relative dies, there is a fixed period during which somebody should not go on holiday or take any sort of restful break?  When do you suggest he should have stopped publicly grieving?  And from memory, didn't Colin go on holiday and also buy himself a new car during this period?  Or am I mistaken?  Not that this, even if true, would excuse Jeremy if he was unpardonably insensitive, but why are you insisting on precise adherence to careful, neo-Victorian social mores from Jeremy and not others?  Did the Eatons go on holiday that year?  Maybe we should check with everybody?  What if Stan and Taff went off on a lads' drinking blag to Ibiza?  How would that look? 

This may be an opportune moment to mention again what happened immediately after the trial:

1. The entire CID capacity of Essex Police repaired to a nearby hotel for an orgiastic, sweaty, mayhemic bender in which, to the man, they got themselves snozzled on cheap acidic ale, in the company of one Kelvin MacKenzie, and quite possibly, a certain David Boutflour.  Not only that, one member of this Forum who claimed to be in know - and I stress, as matters stand, this claim is unproven - told us that this Kelvin MacKenzie told the following to anybody who could hear him above the deafening music: "We know the little sh*t is innocent".

2. A certain student teacher by the name Julie Mugford was posing for racy snaps in her lingerie for a scummy two-bit tabloid newspaper.  Not just any scummy two-bit tabloid newspaper, but the worst of the worst of the worst.  The very scum that decades later hacked the phones of the families of murder victims.

Think on that.  Think on.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #988 on: September 03, 2021, 11:33:PM »
Are you sure about all these?

(i). He did steal money from the family business.  You are right about that.  But he did it once and you did say we should ignore things that people do once, so let us be consistent and call it a - what was that phrase you were using earlier? - 'spur-of-the-moment' 'white collar crime spree'.  Let's also remember that, when confronted about it, he admitted it.  He didn't have to come clean.  He could have just remained silent or even brazened it out and put them to proof.  Since he is supposed to be guilty, what would he have had to lose?  Where I do agree with guilters about this is that the whole excuse he gave at the time, and maintains now, that he was checking security arrangements is just spurious.  Clearly he robbed the site for the money.  We know he did it for that motive, because he promptly spent the money.

(ii). He did sell cannabis on the site.  Not necessarily the worst crime and lots of young men of similar character engage in that kind of minor offending.  What is bad about the drugs side of things is that he also trafficked drugs into the country for resale, which tells me he was on his way to getting himself into serious trouble at some point anyway.

(iii). You are correct that he was convicted of killing five members of his family.  This whole forum is about whether he actually did it, but at this point in time he stands convicted.

(iv). Jeremy denies laughing about the shootings behind closed doors, but even if he did laugh, it's not a crime and it doesn't mean he committed the killings.  People even laugh and joke at funerals sometimes.  I'm not sure what we can deduce from it, and it's dangerous to make deductions about odd, erratic or eccentric behaviour because we may be stringing together isolated facts that have no particular significance. Jeremy was somewhat immature.  That doesn't mean he was a murderer.  He played around with Julie in the back of the car [Q. What does that say about Julie?  Nobody asks that], but that may have been a way of relieving tension and/or a reaction to grief.  It's not often that your parents' funeral is filmed live in front of the world's media.

(v). Jeremy disputes what you say about June's funeral arrangements.  He says that, as June was murdered, it was appropriate that she should be cremated and this was in line with June's Christian beliefs. 

(vi). The allegation that he attempted to sell lewd photographs of his sister is disputed by Jeremy and relies on the word of a particularly scummy tabloid journalist who was well-known for telling lies, making things up and exaggerating, and is now deceased.  I see no reason to believe the journalist.  It may also be that there is no reason to believe Jeremy, but the two cancel each other out.  I can't remember what Brett Collins, who was supposed to be there, has to say about it all, but I'm equally reluctant to believe a word he says - which probably explains why I've forgotten.  If Brett Collins told me the time of day, I'd have to ring up the Greenwich Meridian to double-check.  There are also one or two chronological holes in the story.  For instance, it's said that Jeremy would have had nothing to sell, as the negatives had been taken by Colin.  Colin may contradict this, but then, Colin has every reason to be biased.  Moreover, Colin wrote a book about how robins solve murders and Betty Shine revealed his destiny, so I'm not sure what credence can be put on things he says. 

(vii). Jeremy sold family heirlooms because that is what he was entitled to do, and supposed to do.  Unless you're suggesting that he should have maintained The White House as it was, as if his parents were still living there?  Like a museum?  That is rather ridiculous.  Maybe he did act with some insensitivity, but he was adopted, so would not have had the same emotional connection to the heirlooms as a blood son would have had.  I suppose you blame him for that too?  He would also have had bills to pay and, if he is innocent, he would have been grieving amidst it all.  I also find it doubtful that he murdered five people just so that he could sell some antiques.

(viii). If it is true that Jeremy cleared out the twins' possessions and put them in bin bags, that was insensitive, but I'm not sure what can be read into it.  People can be insensitive.  Jeremy was an arrogant young man - that is not disputed by most people.  I feel sorry for Colin in that situation because he must have felt that he had suffered loss upon loss and that he had lost a tangible connection with his sons that he wanted to say Goodbye to, in one final poignant moment.  That's horrible, but it doesn't make Jeremy 'evil' or a murderer. 

(ix). Jeremy went on holiday.  People go on holiday.  You call that 'foreign jaunts with the blood money'.  Are you saying when a relative dies, there is a fixed period during which somebody should not go on holiday or take any sort of restful break?  When do you suggest he should have stopped publicly grieving?  And from memory, didn't Colin go on holiday and also buy himself a new car during this period?  Or am I mistaken?  Not that this, even if true, would excuse Jeremy if he was unpardonably insensitive, but why are you insisting on precise adherence to careful, neo-Victorian social mores from Jeremy and not everybody else?  Did the Eatons go on holiday that year?  Maybe we should check with everybody?  What if Stan and Taff went off on a lads' drinking blag to Ibiza?  How would that look? 

This may be an opportune moment to mention again what happened immediately after the trial:

1. The entire CID capacity of Essex Police repaired to a nearby hotel for an orgiastic, mayhemic bender in which, to the man, they got themselves snozzled on cheap acidic ale, in the company of one Kelvin MacKenzie, and quite possibly, a certain David Boutflour.  Not only that, one member of this Forum who claimed to be in know - and I stress, as matters stand, this claim is unproven - told us that this Kelvin MacKenzie told this to anybody who could hear him above the deafening music: "We know the little sh*t is innocent".

2. A certain student teacher by the name Julie Mugford was posing for racy snaps in her lingerie for a scummy two-bit tabloid newspaper.  Not just any scummy two-bit tabloid newspaper, but the worst of the worst of the worst.  The very scum that decades later hacked the phones of the families of murder victims.

Think on that.  Think on.

The allegation that he attempted to sell lewd photographs of his sister is disputed by Jeremy and relies on the word of a particularly scummy tabloid journalist who was well-known for telling lies, making things up and exaggerating, and is now deceased.

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Have you got some examples?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Official Jeremy Bamber and White House Farm Podcast Series
« Reply #989 on: September 03, 2021, 11:44:PM »
Bamber offerred The Sun his life story & photos.

Maybe he didn't have any photos, but felt it would get the journalist interested & give him more chance of clinching a deal.

Suspect Bamber found some worthwhile things when him & Brett took over Sheila's flat.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.