Lest We Forget...................

[lookout]

Would he, though? Back then -or at least when Stan entered the force- a degree wasn't requisite. A secondry school education was enough to get you in and you worked your way up through the ranks. Such was how police gained a reputation for being thick. I don't know when it was believed that having a degree was adventageous -I know of two females who went in with degrees- other than enabling entry to the force at a higher level, but it doesn't guarantee the people skills necessary for dealing with the public.

That part Stan would definitely have known, it was his job to think ill of " would be criminals " whether right or wrong. We must also remember that he took an instant dislike to Jeremy, quite possibly because of what Jeremy stood to gain ( my thoughts ) where something like that can't be hidden and is easily rubbed off when you have others involved who are also of the same mindset. So easy when there was nobody to speak up for Jeremy. It was such a top-heavy case in that respect. 

[JackieD]

Dreadful Lookout
A 24 year old on his own having to sit and listen to all the lies.

He obviously didn’t know half the lies until after conviction

[Jane]

That part Stan would definitely have known, it was his job to think ill of " would be criminals " whether right or wrong. We must also remember that he took an instant dislike to Jeremy, quite possibly because of what Jeremy stood to gain ( my thoughts ) where something like that can't be hidden and is easily rubbed off when you have others involved who are also of the same mindset. So easy when there was nobody to speak up for Jeremy. It was such a top-heavy case in that respect.

"So easy when there was nobody to speak up for Jeremy" Have you never wondered why, Lookout?

I still recall feeling shock when I read you saying that if Jeremy was your grandson you'd have been proud of how he presented himself (in this case, it was in court). It was with some horror that it occurred to me that the mothers/grandmothers of youngsters who are frankly no more than thugs and sh-one-ts, sit in courtrooms saying they feel really proud of their young -probably even the mummies/grannies of those wastes of space who were responsible for the death of the young policeman. My guess is that mums/grandmums will always love their boys, no matter what others say.......................which brings me back to wondering why no one spoke up for Jeremy.

I imagine, if you were suspected of having committed a crime, the general concensus, of all who know you, might be along the lines of you were feisty and sometimes 'difficult' but you definitely wouldn't have done X. In my own case, from all who know me, I can guarantee, their opinion would be NEVER in a million years. These opinions, both from your friends, and mine, would spread beyond ther parameters of our own groups to a wider audience. NONE of this happened for Jeremy. I've never known a single friend of his parents' -there are so few left now- who've supported him. I'm told there was one person from his school but the only person I've known who did support him is my cousin's co in law, a vicar. Those females whose bed he'd shared chose not to hang around to beat the drum for him after he'd been convicted. His only support has come from those who've only known him since his conviction. How can he have got to 25, spent 7 years at a school, been to college, traveled the world -twice-, had numerous jobs around many different people, but have SO few willing to say"He COULDN'T have done this. It simply isn't possible". It makes me suspicious.

[lookout]

"So easy when there was nobody to speak up for Jeremy" Have you never wondered why, Lookout?

I still recall feeling shock when I read you saying that if Jeremy was your grandson you'd have been proud of how he presented himself (in this case, it was in court). It was with some horror that it occurred to me that the mothers/grandmothers of youngsters who are frankly no more than thugs and sh-one-ts, sit in courtrooms saying they feel really proud of their young -probably even the mummies/grannies of those wastes of space who were responsible for the death of the young policeman. My guess is that mums/grandmums will always love their boys, no matter what others say.......................which brings me back to wondering why no one spoke up for Jeremy.

I imagine, if you were suspected of having committed a crime, the general concensus, of all who know you, might be along the lines of you were feisty and sometimes 'difficult' but you definitely wouldn't have done X. In my own case, from all who know me, I can guarantee, their opinion would be NEVER in a million years. These opinions, both from your friends, and mine, would spread beyond ther parameters of our own groups to a wider audience. NONE of this happened for Jeremy. I've never known a single friend of his parents' -there are so few left now- who've supported him. I'm told there was one person from his school but the only person I've known who did support him is my cousin's co in law, a vicar. Those females whose bed he'd shared chose not to hang around to beat the drum for him after he'd been convicted. His only support has come from those who've only known him since his conviction. How can he have got to 25, spent 7 years at a school, been to college, traveled the world -twice-, had numerous jobs around many different people, but have SO few willing to say"He COULDN'T have done this. It simply isn't possible". It makes me suspicious.

My guess is that it was only latterly that people didn't so much know Jeremy, but knew of him. He was too busy womanising to make any proper male friends who he'd " knock around with ", he hadn't cemented any male friendship which would have made a difference in every way. Were both siblings on pins in case their friends weren't accepted by their mother ? Hence why Sheila also hadn't appeared to have had any close friends either, as June seemed to have found fault in everyone.

The only time that these people " knew " Jeremy was after the tragedy when newspapers were full of  unfounded damning reports which everyone latched on to as well as gossip from those who only thought they knew him and the family well, when if the truth be told, the closer family didn't know at all.

Probably the reason why so many who briefly knew him, women especially, and haven't all come forward, is that most people whether they know you or not, will steer clear of anything to do with court, though police did collect many testimonies that didn't make an appearance at trial as like many other documents, were withheld.

[David1819]

Therefore, was Stan in on it, or are you saying she anticipated Stan would want to know where the paint was from and would put 2 and 2 together, and planned to tell him if he didn't?

He comes across as right plank. I am more inclined to think he was a manipulated tool.

[lookout]

He comes across as right plank. I am more inclined to think he was a manipulated tool.

He was possibly manipulated, but he certainly became the manipulator in every sense of the word. You've only to look at the way he was with Julie.

[lookout]

Plus, do or die he wanted a conviction under his belt given the bad performance record of Essex Police at the time.

[Roch]

He comes across as right plank. I am more inclined to think he was a manipulated tool.

The original portrayal of him on this forum was that he was labelled 'Stupid Stan'.  Also that he was very fond of a tipple.  That he was not made privvy to events relating to the raid (and that the decision not do so massively backfired).

[Jane]

My guess is that it was only latterly that people didn't so much know Jeremy, but knew of him. He was too busy womanising to make any proper male friends who he'd " knock around with ", he hadn't cemented any male friendship which would have made a difference in every way. Were both siblings on pins in case their friends weren't accepted by their mother ? Hence why Sheila also hadn't appeared to have had any close friends either, as June seemed to have found fault in everyone.

The only time that these people " knew " Jeremy was after the tragedy when newspapers were full of  unfounded damning reports which everyone latched on to as well as gossip from those who only thought they knew him and the family well, when if the truth be told, the closer family didn't know at all.

Probably the reason why so many who briefly knew him, women especially, and haven't all come forward, is that most people whether they know you or not, will steer clear of anything to do with court, though police did collect many testimonies that didn't make an appearance at trial as like many other documents, were withheld.

There's certainly some truth in what you say. Any friendship base would have come from outside of his small community. Sheila was certainly able to frequent pubs out of the immediate vicinity, but maybe Jeremy looked too young to have got in. But what about school friends? Were there any? Or, because there was something(?) about him, was he just not popular? Males, if they're going to bond, seem to do so at an early age. Possibly he never did. That neither -allegedly- took friends home doesn't necessarily signify there weren't any. Jeremy was at a mixed college and chose to do work involving males and females. He had several jobs so wasn't exactly reclusive. That he chose to spend more time with friends of his own age -if he had any- rather than family members who were older than he, wouldn't be surprising.

I really can't accept that there were so few who knew so little of him that they didn't feel able to, at least, give their impression of him, so unless these people have since come forward to say, publicly, they'd been to the police to support him, I'm not certain how such can be known. I can't imagine that police would admit to having taken supportive statements and deliberately withholding them. Unless ANY who'd made statements had sat in court, how would they know that said statements hadn't been read out?

[guest7363]

"So easy when there was nobody to speak up for Jeremy" Have you never wondered why, Lookout?

I still recall feeling shock when I read you saying that if Jeremy was your grandson you'd have been proud of how he presented himself (in this case, it was in court). It was with some horror that it occurred to me that the mothers/grandmothers of youngsters who are frankly no more than thugs and sh-one-ts, sit in courtrooms saying they feel really proud of their young -probably even the mummies/grannies of those wastes of space who were responsible for the death of the young policeman. My guess is that mums/grandmums will always love their boys, no matter what others say.......................which brings me back to wondering why no one spoke up for Jeremy.

I imagine, if you were suspected of having committed a crime, the general concensus, of all who know you, might be along the lines of you were feisty and sometimes 'difficult' but you definitely wouldn't have done X. In my own case, from all who know me, I can guarantee, their opinion would be NEVER in a million years. These opinions, both from your friends, and mine, would spread beyond ther parameters of our own groups to a wider audience. NONE of this happened for Jeremy. I've never known a single friend of his parents' -there are so few left now- who've supported him. I'm told there was one person from his school but the only person I've known who did support him is my cousin's co in law, a vicar. Those females whose bed he'd shared chose not to hang around to beat the drum for him after he'd been convicted. His only support has come from those who've only known him since his conviction. How can he have got to 25, spent 7 years at a school, been to college, traveled the world -twice-, had numerous jobs around many different people, but have SO few willing to say"He COULDN'T have done this. It simply isn't possible". It makes me suspicious.

I suspect he lost more family friends Jane when he committed the Park robbery out of greed, saying he had done it to test security, yet on oath he admitted he had done it for greed?  I’m not a Julie fan, but at least she owned up to being a part of this and the Cheque book fraud.

[Caroline]

The original portrayal of him on this forum was that he was labelled 'Stupid Stan'. Also that he was very fond of a tipple.  That he was not made privvy to events relating to the raid (and that the decision not do so massively backfired).

Who labelled him that? Someone on the forum? I've learned not to listen to those kind of opinions - unless it was was written by someone who knew him well - what value is it?

[guest7363]

Who labelled him that? Someone on the forum? I've learned not to listen to those kind of opinions - unless it was was written by someone who knew him well - what value is it?

The same people who praise Taff I would think Caroline 🙈🙈🙈

[Jane]

I suspect he lost more family friends Jane when he committed the Park robbery out of greed, saying he had done it to test security, yet on oath he admitted he had done it for greed?  I’m not a Julie fan, but at least she owned up to being a part of this and the Cheque book fraud.

RJ, the cheque book fraud thing has been blown out of all proportion. I KNOW it was wrong. I know it was a crime, but let's at least TRY to keep a sense of proportion about it. It was hardly so great an occurrence that it sent the bank into lock-down. It appears they weren't even aware of it until she admitted to having done it. Okay, so had the police not suggested that she come clean, she may not have, BUT!!! had she not been with Jeremy, she most probably wouldn't have (done it) in the first instant. In fact, it can surely be said that, had Jeremy not convinced her that he'd murdered his entire family, there'd have been no need for her to have been anywhere near a police station. If one weighs up the balance between a very minor cheque fraud and a multiple murder, the cheque fraud pales into insignificance, doesn't it?

[Caroline]

RJ, the cheque book fraud thing has been blown out of all proportion. I KNOW it was wrong. I know it was a crime, but let's at least TRY to keep a sense of proportion about it. It was hardly so great an occurrence that it sent the bank into lock-down. It appears they weren't even aware of it until she admitted to having done it. Okay, so had the police not suggested that she come clean, she may not have, BUT!!! had she not been with Jeremy, she most probably wouldn't have (done it) in the first instant. In fact, it can surely be said that, had Jeremy not convinced her that he'd murdered his entire family, there'd have been no need for her to have been anywhere near a police station. If one weighs up the balance between a very minor cheque fraud and a multiple murder, the cheque fraud pales into insignificance, doesn't it?

The CBF was merely a version of what Jeremy had done in Australia with his travelers cheques. He was a bad influence who met someone who was also a bad influence.

[Roch]

Who labelled him that? Someone on the forum? I've learned not to listen to those kind of opinions - unless it was was written by someone who knew him well - what value is it?

No, not someone on the forum. It's an anecdote relayed via the forum. It's how he was supposed to have been viewed by contemporaries. Such a description is hardly going to feature in 'The Force' is it? Or whatever the EP publication was called.

Nevertheless, the author who claimed to have interviewed him quite liked him.