Why Nevill didn't call the Police

[Jerry]

Smiffy

The source is revealed in the post.

In answer to your question...........I do not know but I suspect it is taken from the equivalent of the Julie Mugford witness statement as taken on 8th August 1985 as has been posted by Mike on the forum. I believe this can be seen in the Jeremy's original statment thread.

I guess you should really be asking Mike as he has confirmed on the forum that he has a copy of Jeremy's original statement. Mike has detailed that he has been told not to post a copy of Jeremy's original statement.

That doesn't impress me for a minute, if there was anything controversial or incriminating in the statement, which I believe there is, Mike could redact it accordingly before posting it.

[Jerry]

Do you still believe this? That the call to JM by JB was supposed to be before JB called the Police?

It's a difficult one to pin down.

The simple fact is that no matter which way you swing it, JB was on the phone to the police between 3:26 and 3:37 (give or take a minute either way).

So the call from JB to JM must have been either before 3:26 or after 3:37.

Based on the arrival of JB at the scene of the murders at around 3:48, it would seem unlikely that he would have had the time to call JM after his call to the police and then and drive slowly to the whf.

It would therefore seem most likely that JB's call took place before he called the police at 3:26.

In order to accomodate the theory that the 3.26 log relates to Nevill calling the police and that this was the reason for Jeremy getting the engaged tone when he rang Nevill back. Jeremy admits he tried to call Nevill back straight away after the line went dead. Jeremy distinctly remebers getting the engaged tone.

In this theory scenario Jeremy would therefore put the telephone call as received from Nevill to himself at just before 3.26 am.

Yes but that can't possibly be the case, as that would put JB's call to the police at 3:36 which would not give him time to arrive at whf at 3:48 bearing in mind the length of his call to the police.

If Nevill called the police (which I don't believe happened) then Nevills call must have been before 3:26 minus a few minutes for JB to look up the local police number in the yellow pages, and possibly minus the time it took him to call JM.

I know and agree. Hence my repeated requests for Mike to post Jeremy's original WITNESS statement, as made on 7 / 8 the August 1985 which will include Jeremy's version of the time of the alleged call from Nevill.

It is my belief this will be the time Jeremy either received the alleged call from Nevill if innocent or the time Jermey wanted everyone to believe.

There remains a possibility that Jeremy's original WITNESS statement may corroborate with Ann Eaton's hand written notes.

I have found some details included in Roger Wilkes' book 'Blood Relations' which directly reference Jeremy's original statement on 8th August 1985.

For clarity, should anyone wish to check the following extract is detailed on page 136 -

' Stan Jones reminded Jeremy Bamber that he had been asked by several police officers about his actions that night, and that he had said he phoned the police before calling Julie. So what was the correct order?

'I don't remember,' said Jeremy, 'but my first statement was done at the time and must be correct.'

'[In his statement on 8 August, Jeremy Bamber claimed that he called Chelmsford Police 'immediately' after getting the engaged tone. He timed his father's call at about 3.10 a.m. According to his first statement, it was 'about 3.25 when he telephoned Julie to tell her something seemed to be wrong.] '

CE, without looking at your telephone or mobile records, can you:

Recall two telephone calls you made or received on 1st June?

Or the nearest day to 1st June if there were not two calls then?

Can you recall the times you made or received these calls?

Can you be certain of the order with which these calls were made/ taken?

I certainly can't recall any of the above.

I accept that 7-8th August were important days in Jeremy Bamber's life, however, it was also the start of a traumatic period when there would have been a great deal happening.

Remember too that Jeremy had been prescribed and was taking tranquilisers at that time, I believe these in themselves can have a damaging impact on memory. They wiped out the memory and the capacity to rationalise of a friend of mine.

Very convenient, now the tranquillisers are responsible.

[Jackiepreece]

why don't you put all your energy into getting the ccrc to release everything rather than pestering Mike

Take a walk up to Birmingham to the ccrc they might let you photocopy everything

[hartley]

why don't you put all your energy into getting the ccrc to release everything rather than pestering Mike

Take a walk up to Birmingham to the ccrc they might let you photocopy everything

Unfortunately Mike set this forum up, if he didn't want the claims he makes to be questioned then perhaps a blog may have been a better choice.

[chochokeira]

I can, does that count?

I think when a major incident occurs you know exactly where you were and what you did, I don't recall what I did this time last week or month or year, but I recall the entire day almost minute by minute when the bombs went off in London on 7/7, I think that's just the way it works.

You must have an extraordinary memory, Harters, I think very few people would be able to provide a minute by minute account of their day on 7/7.

[Jackiepreece]

Possibly Mike thought he might be playing an even field by now with everything out in the open from the ccrc


So Hartley you will just have to live with it

Be patient just like JB has been for 26 years

[hartley]

I can, does that count?

I think when a major incident occurs you know exactly where you were and what you did, I don't recall what I did this time last week or month or year, but I recall the entire day almost minute by minute when the bombs went off in London on 7/7, I think that's just the way it works.

You must have an extraordinary memory, Harters, I think very few people would be able to provide a minute by minute account of their day on 7/7.

Yes perhaps I do.

[Jackiepreece]

I don't believe you Hartley you better swot up and I can test you tomorrow

[hartley]

Possibly Mike thought he might be playing an even field by now with everything out in the open from the ccrc


So Hartley you will just have to live with it

Be patient just like JB has been for 26 years

You see Jac, that's the sort of post I mean. My patience is just fine thanks.

[hartley]

I don't believe you Hartley you better swot up and I can test you tomorrow

Jac, my point is that people remember all sorts, I lost my father in the 7/7 bombings and I can remember a darn sight more of that day and the following weeks than I can about other dates.

[Jackiepreece]

Hartley stop having a go at Mike try the other avenues

Anyway I am off now and Vidvic can slip back on because he still has not answered my post.

Could someone lend him a dictionary so he can look up the word if and the word goad and could you make sure he finds the post where I gave him an actual time for when he would hear about new evidence


Hartley you didn't say you lost your father in the bombings that is tragic and I can now understand why you remember everything about that day on the other hand I was extremely close to my Dad and I have blocked everything out about the time he died I couldn't even give you the date it is still painful everything reminds me but I can't bear it.

[hartley]

Goodnight JP.

[smiffy]

If there was itemised billing then one side or the other would have waved it from the rooftops at trial. I believe the exchange in deepest Essex was ancient and not able to record anymore than units used.

That is most certainly a distinct and probable possibility. So why would Mike be telling porkies?

It has been suggested that trunk calls (i.e. long distance rather than local) may have been recorded as well as international calls. I suspect operator connected calls would also have been itemised.  I do not know whether the technology was available at the time for locally dialled calls to be specifically identified and timed.  Whatever the position Mike's views expressed here do not amount to "porkies", they are his understanding of the position.

Ah Chelmsford telephone exchange.....
vidvic uses flowery language (hmm wonder why) to promote his belief in the relevant telephone exchange being very old and out of date for the time of the murder...  nothing more than wishful thinking...how old eh vidvic in your imagination?
a little research   and it cannot have been too old...for the old telephone exchange building in chelmsford went out of use in 1974....
so that immediately implies  that in 1985 the replacement exchanges equipment cannot have been much older than from 1974.  System X digital exchanges were being introduced in the early 80's and chelmsford is very likely to have gone to system x prior to 1985 due to its importance to BT.

Itemised billing....there are two components that are relevant... key is recording equipment to obtain the data...the paperwork side only comes later...   One came before the other...so was in place before the other.
Where the right equipment was installed the ability to log calls was already present even if no itemised bills were being sent out to customers.

[curiousessex]

Do you still believe this? That the call to JM by JB was supposed to be before JB called the Police?

It's a difficult one to pin down.

The simple fact is that no matter which way you swing it, JB was on the phone to the police between 3:26 and 3:37 (give or take a minute either way).

So the call from JB to JM must have been either before 3:26 or after 3:37.

Based on the arrival of JB at the scene of the murders at around 3:48, it would seem unlikely that he would have had the time to call JM after his call to the police and then and drive slowly to the whf.

It would therefore seem most likely that JB's call took place before he called the police at 3:26.

In order to accomodate the theory that the 3.26 log relates to Nevill calling the police and that this was the reason for Jeremy getting the engaged tone when he rang Nevill back. Jeremy admits he tried to call Nevill back straight away after the line went dead. Jeremy distinctly remebers getting the engaged tone.

In this theory scenario Jeremy would therefore put the telephone call as received from Nevill to himself at just before 3.26 am.

Yes but that can't possibly be the case, as that would put JB's call to the police at 3:36 which would not give him time to arrive at whf at 3:48 bearing in mind the length of his call to the police.

If Nevill called the police (which I don't believe happened) then Nevills call must have been before 3:26 minus a few minutes for JB to look up the local police number in the yellow pages, and possibly minus the time it took him to call JM.

I know and agree. Hence my repeated requests for Mike to post Jeremy's original WITNESS statement, as made on 7 / 8 the August 1985 which will include Jeremy's version of the time of the alleged call from Nevill.

It is my belief this will be the time Jeremy either received the alleged call from Nevill if innocent or the time Jermey wanted everyone to believe.

There remains a possibility that Jeremy's original WITNESS statement may corroborate with Ann Eaton's hand written notes.

I have found some details included in Roger Wilkes' book 'Blood Relations' which directly reference Jeremy's original statement on 8th August 1985.

For clarity, should anyone wish to check the following extract is detailed on page 136 -

' Stan Jones reminded Jeremy Bamber that he had been asked by several police officers about his actions that night, and that he had said he phoned the police before calling Julie. So what was the correct order?

'I don't remember,' said Jeremy, 'but my first statement was done at the time and must be correct.'

'[In his statement on 8 August, Jeremy Bamber claimed that he called Chelmsford Police 'immediately' after getting the engaged tone. He timed his father's call at about 3.10 a.m. According to his first statement, it was 'about 3.25 when he telephoned Julie to tell her something seemed to be wrong.] '

CE, without looking at your telephone or mobile records, can you:

Recall two telephone calls you made or received on 1st June?

Or the nearest day to 1st June if there were not two calls then?

Can you recall the times you made or received these calls?

Can you be certain of the order with which these calls were made/ taken?

I certainly can't recall any of the above.

I accept that 7-8th August were important days in Jeremy Bamber's life, however, it was also the start of a traumatic period when there would have been a great deal happening.

Remember too that Jeremy had been prescribed and was taking tranquilisers at that time, I believe these in themselves can have a damaging impact on memory. They wiped out the memory and the capacity to rationalise of a friend of mine.

Keira

In response to your request about telephone calls.

On 1st June I can remember the sequence and content of a couple of telephone calls I had with an individual having realised that was the day I had spoken with them i.e. 1st June.

Further, my good lady tragically lost her middle daughter about 18 months ago. I can still remember the sequence of telephone calls relating to the events unfolding, our journeys made and the telephone calls made after she passed.
I certainly remembered them all very clearly the following day.

[Jerry]

Keira

In response to your request about telephone calls.

On 1st June I can remember the sequence and content of a couple of telephone calls I had with an individual having realised that was the day I had spoken with them i.e. 1st June.

Further, my good lady tragically lost her middle daughter about 18 months ago. I can still remember the sequence of telephone calls relating to the events unfolding, our journeys made and the telephone calls made after she passed.
I certainly remembered them all very clearly the following day.

Most certainly one will remember a sequence of events when trauma is involved.  The very idea that Jeremy could not remember who he telephoned first is just ridiculous. I suspect he was caught out in a momentary loss of control but that is all it takes to unearth the truth.

Anyone looking at this series of events would realise that Jeremy could not have telephoned Julie Mugford before telephoning the police but that seems to be what took place.  As you state curiousessex, he could only have done so if he was not asleep and if he had a special knowledge of events.

How could he possibly telephone Julie and tell her there was trouble at the farm shortly after 3am if the alleged telephone call from Nevill only took place after 3.20am?