Did JM ever really love Jeremy Bamber?

[vidvic]

Chocho you are good at this

In Ann eatons statement she says JB used to imitate his Dad when he was young the way he ate etc
I take this to be looking up to Neville a kind of adulation what do you think

and yet, less than a year before the murders he reduced Nevill to tears at Marks Tey Hotel by embarrassing Nevill in front of his fellow farmers at a local farmers meeting.........

Did you never rebel against your parents, Vic? I certainly did, for a few years I was surly, rude and aggressive. Like Jeremy, I humiliated my parents at times and got into all manner of trouble.

My two children rebelled horribly too. My son used to run away from home and we'd find him sleeping in the greenhouse. When I complained about him running up huge phone bills, mostly in order to have silent rows with his girlfriends for hours, or about his various girlfriends throwing stones at our bedroom windows in the early hours, he'd swear and run me over with his bike. He threw a cup of coffee over me one morning, so I threw one back, he followed through with his sandwiches.

My daughter was just the same, rude, aggressive; she and her friends trashed my house while I was at work.

Both my son and daughter were hell to live with from their teens to their early twenties, I thought they would never grow up and despaired of both them.

They both eventually began to change, thank goodness and now they are the loveliest children anyone could have.

A rebellious period is part of the natural development process. Almost all young people go through this horrible stage and it's complete misery for their families while they do so.

Jeremy, just like my son, was a horror to live with from his late teens to his early twenties. Then he began to settle down.

Keira, if you read my answer to Rochford you'll see that I totally agree with you.

[hartley]

What the prosecution did deem rel lavant though, is that JB allegedly talked to JM about killing his family, and the 'I could kill any of my relatives' statement at the caravan park meeting.

Surely it's just common practise for the prosecution to try and discredit the appellants character and likewise for the defence to praise the appellants character. Hence hostile or friendly witnesses.

[Jackiepreece]

Vidvic you are on friendly terms with Ann Eaton what possible bearing did it have on this case for her to make a police statement saying there might or might not have been a photo of JB amongst the rest of the family in Nanny Speakmans bedroom

Tell me Vic what possible reason was there for Ann Eaton to make that disgraceful statement what is she implying

[chochokeira]

Thanks Chocho it was 3 against me at one  point I was doing my best and along came my hero !

When they do that, talk about anything but what they want you to discuss. Talk about the weather, they'll soon get fed up.

Keira, Isn't that the point of a forum like this to discuss things?

Yes, the point of the forum is to discuss things. The forum is not, however, meant to be a place where one person is made to feel pressured by a group of people ganging up on them. Few individuals can hold a serious discussion with several people - all focussing questions on that one person at one time - without feeling stressed and pressured. That's why I gave Jackie the above advice - which you have censored - on how to deal with this. My advice was for her to disengage and bore them into giving up.

I somehow duplicated this post when I corrected a spelling error, so I've removed one copy

[hartley]

Thanks Chocho it was 3 against me at one  point I was doing my best and along came my hero !

When they do that, talk about anything but what they want you to discuss. Talk about the weather, they'll soon get fed up.

Keira, Isn't that the point of a forum like this to discuss things?

Yes, the point of the forum is to discuss things. The forum is not, however, meant to be a place where one person is made to feel pressured by a group of people ganging up on them. Few individuals can hold a serious discussion with several people at one time without feeling stressed and pressured. That's why I gave Jackie the above advice - which you have censored - on how to deal with this. My advice was for her to disengage and bore them into giving up.

To be fair, her posts are often goading, if she has several posters disagreeing with her then that is ultimately and simply a consequence of her own making. She is not being bullied or ganged up on in any way shape or form.

[chochokeira]

Chocho you are good at this

In Ann eatons statement she says JB used to imitate his Dad when he was young the way he ate etc
I take this to be looking up to Neville a kind of adulation what do you think

and yet, less than a year before the murders he reduced Nevill to tears at Marks Tey Hotel by embarrassing Nevill in front of his fellow farmers at a local farmers meeting.........

Did you never rebel against your parents, Vic? I certainly did, for a few years I was surly, rude and aggressive. Like Jeremy, I humiliated my parents at times and got into all manner of trouble.

My two children rebelled horribly too. My son used to run away from home and we'd find him sleeping in the greenhouse. When I complained about him running up huge phone bills, mostly in order to have silent rows with his girlfriends for hours, or about his various girlfriends throwing stones at our bedroom windows in the early hours, he'd swear and run me over with his bike. He threw a cup of coffee over me one morning, so I threw one back, he followed through with his sandwiches.

My daughter was just the same, rude, aggressive; she and her friends trashed my house while I was at work.

Both my son and daughter were hell to live with from their teens to their early twenties, I thought they would never grow up and despaired of both them.

They both eventually began to change, thank goodness and now they are the loveliest children anyone could have.

A rebellious period is part of the natural development process. Almost all young people go through this horrible stage and it's complete misery for their families while they do so.

Jeremy, just like my son, was a horror to live with from his late teens to his early twenties. Then he began to settle down.

Keira, if you read my answer to Rochford you'll see that I totally agree with you.

I haven't yet read that post. I'll have a look at it.

[chochokeira]

Thanks Chocho it was 3 against me at one  point I was doing my best and along came my hero !

When they do that, talk about anything but what they want you to discuss. Talk about the weather, they'll soon get fed up.

Keira, Isn't that the point of a forum like this to discuss things?

Yes, the point of the forum is to discuss things. The forum is not, however, meant to be a place where one person is made to feel pressured by a group of people ganging up on them. Few individuals can hold a serious discussion with several people at one time without feeling stressed and pressured. That's why I gave Jackie the above advice - which you have censored - on how to deal with this. My advice was for her to disengage and bore them into giving up.

To be fair, her posts are often goading, if she has several posters disagreeing with her then that is ultimately and simply a consequence of her own making. She is not being bullied or ganged up on in any way shape or form.

I do accept that point, Harters. It's also true that the others involved in this discussion goad at times. My advice was simply: disengage and bore. In other words: stop.

[vidvic]

Thanks Chocho it was 3 against me at one  point I was doing my best and along came my hero !

When they do that, talk about anything but what they want you to discuss. Talk about the weather, they'll soon get fed up.

Keira, Isn't that the point of a forum like this to discuss things?

Yes, the point of the forum is to discuss things. The forum is not, however, meant to be a place where one person is made to feel pressured by a group of people ganging up on them. Few individuals can hold a serious discussion with several people at one time without feeling stressed and pressured. That's why I gave Jackie the above advice - which you have censored - on how to deal with this. My advice was for her to disengage and bore them into giving up.

To be fair, her posts are often goading, if she has several posters disagreeing with her then that is ultimately and simply a consequence of her own making. She is not being bullied or ganged up on in any way shape or form.

I do accept that point, Harters. It's also true that the others involved in this discussion goad at times. My advice was simply: disengage and bore. In other words: stop.

Keira, who has censored what?

[vidvic]

Keira, this is a little example of the posts I had directed at me this afternoon from Jackie.

vidvic why do you continually make things up you are making yourself look stupid again

I think I had the right to defend myself??

If she felt pressured then she should treat people with more respect!

[vidvic]

Vidvic you are on friendly terms with Ann Eaton what possible bearing did it have on this case for her to make a police statement saying there might or might not have been a photo of JB amongst the rest of the family in Nanny Speakmans bedroom

Tell me Vic what possible reason was there for Ann Eaton to make that disgraceful statement what is she implying

I have no idea Jackie.

[Jackiepreece]

You do Vic she said it so it looked like JB wasn't liked by his Nan and Ann Eaton knew it couldn't be proved because  Nanny Speakman had been dead for years that is what Is called clutching at straws trying to discredit JB invade the colp investigation went against the relatives


Vidvic you didn't reply on the point of do you know of any acts of violence by JB because there isn't is there even Ann Eaton failed on that point

[vidvic]

You do Vic she said it so it looked like JB wasn't liked by his Nan and Ann Eaton knew it couldn't be proved because  Nanny Speakman had been dead for years that is what Is called clutching at straws trying to discredit JB invade the colp investigation went against the relatives


Vidvic you didn't reply on the point of do you know of any acts of violence by JB because there isn't is there even Ann Eaton failed on that point

Apart from pulling JM's arms up behind her back, No.

I think Harold Shipman had no previous convictions or incidents in his history either Jackie.

[Jerry]

Well I did make him laugh on Saturday because I said he was causing havoc with women when he was 24 and I think he still is now.  I said if he gets released there will be all these women outside in cars waiting for him. I said you will be in so much trouble so he said you would put me up Jac wouldn't you and I thought cheeky monkey still a player.  I think he needs to be with his male friends or I suggested a one way ticket to Australia

I don't think they transport convicts there any more.

[Jerry]

Choch, JM was surely deeply dodgy, but found herself out of her depth. I don't think that she lied, once she was under oath.

She claimed that Jeremy became increasingly bitter towards his family in late 1984. Yet, aside form the extended family who seem intent on portraying him as evil, other witnesses said the opposite was true, that he was settling down as he matured and that the relationships wer improving.

Well if you consider robbing, trashing and setting fire to the family business settling down I suppose you can get away with any nonsense on this forum.

It isn't surprising then that granny changed her will given his conduct.

I must have led a sheltered life, because I find it hard to imagine many crimes worse than the slaughter of two tiny boys, an elderly couple and a poorly young woman, murdered in their beds.

I quite agree Shona, dreadful.

[Jerry]

I have read and seen police lies and corruption first hand to people I know that have been 100% innocent and I have read all the stuff about Birmingham Six and Guildford Four and Colin Stagg and I have followed JB s story for a long time and the only thing I wasn't sure about was Sheilas capability but Ngb explained that one.  I have to say I think he is innocent but absolute definitive proof I don't know if that can ever happen unless someone proves the police have lied.

I will share something with you though as Ngb has said that I speak to JB on the phone.  I had quite a long conversation with him on Saturday and I said I could not get my head around how anyone could stitch someone up and get them life in prison. He said there were people in that prison that have done a lot more for a lot less and then he went into great detail saying he had sympathy for JM and explained why she could have done what she did. It is something I have never read before and wouldn't repeat but he didn't say anything bad about her and he certainly doesn't hate her and that is not really how he should be I had a lot of respect for what he said and he does talk about his mum and dad and aunty pam with a lot of love

You can't hate someone who told the truth.