Defence agree with prosecution over when Nevill would have phoned Jeremy:

[lookout]

Nevill wouldn't have needed to have been " bare-footed " seeing that his slippers were under/near Sheila's bed where he could have lain while Sheila had been in bed with her mother, listening to Bible stories.

Why were Nevill's slippers by Sheila's bed ? Had Nevill intended sleeping in that bed on account of being up early for harvest-time so as not to disturb June ?

No harm in looking at alternate sleeping arrangements ?

[David1819]

Everything points to Nevill being asleep when Sheila opened fire on June. He woke & started moving, which is why two shots were torso shots from feet away.

He ran downstairs to phone Jeremy. But was only able to speak for 4 seconds before being attacked. This explains why Nevill was found bare footed in pyjamas.

An up and fully fit Nevill would have resolved the situation straight away.

Even none of his blood being in the bedroom? Of course he contained the blood to spill it all outside later

[Kaldin]

Oh yes. The locking in the shower room.

Why not?

[Kaldin]

Everything points to Nevill being asleep when Sheila opened fire on June. He woke & started moving, which is why two shots were torso shots from feet away.

He ran downstairs to phone Jeremy. But was only able to speak for 4 seconds before being attacked. This explains why Nevill was found bare footed in pyjamas.

An up and fully fit Nevill would have resolved the situation straight away.

No, it doesn't point to Nevill being asleep. There is none of his blood on the bed.

[Adam]

No, it doesn't point to Nevill being asleep. There is none of his blood on the bed.

This has already been discussed.

He was already on the move when shot 4 times. So not enough time for blood to spill. It was a rifle for shooting rabbits. Not a shot gun. Two of these shots were torso shots anyway.

David suggested Nevill was asleep when Sheila was downstairs getting the rifle ready. There is no reason he would wake in the few seconds it took her to walk upstairs.

[Kaldin]

This has already been discussed.

He was already on the move when shot 4 times. So not enough time for blood to spill. It was a rifle for shooting rabbits. Not a shot gun. Two of these shots were torso shots anyway.

David suggested Nevill was asleep when Sheila was downstairs getting the rifle ready. There is no reason he would wake in the few seconds it took her to walk upstairs.

That's just your opinion, and I don't agree with it. His blood would have been on the bed IMO. His face would have bled a lot.

I can't help what David is suggesting - I'm not David. He could well be right though. Perhaps Nevill heard a noise and got up to investigate. There's no reason to suppose that Sheila would have started shooting straight away.

[Adam]

That's just your opinion, and I don't agree with it. His blood would have been on the bed IMO. His face would have bled a lot.

I can't help what David is suggesting - I'm not David. He could well be right though. Perhaps Nevill heard a noise and got up to investigate. There's no reason to suppose that Sheila would have started shooting straight away.

Blood falling from his mouth within 3 seconds?

Maybe Nevill woke & got up before Sheila got upstairs. That was when she locked herself in the shower room.

How an earth did Nevill then end up getting shot 4 times back upstairs in the bedroom. Twice from inches away?

[lookout]

Nevill wouldn't have needed to have been " bare-footed " seeing that his slippers were under/near Sheila's bed where he could have lain while Sheila had been in bed with her mother, listening to Bible stories.

Why were Nevill's slippers by Sheila's bed ? Had Nevill intended sleeping in that bed on account of being up early for harvest-time so as not to disturb June ?

No harm in looking at alternate sleeping arrangements ?

Also, because June had been a light sleeper, it would have made more sense for Nevill to have slept in Sheila's room to save disturbing June after him finishing late in the fields.

[Kaldin]

Blood falling from his mouth within 3 seconds?

Maybe Nevill woke & got up before Sheila got upstairs. That was when she locked herself in the shower room.

How an earth did Nevill then end up getting shot 4 times back upstairs in the bedroom. Twice from inches away?

He might not have been shot in the bedroom, he could have been shot on the stairs as he approached the bedroom.

[Adam]

He might not have been shot in the bedroom, he could have been shot on the stairs as he approached the bedroom.

Lots of mights.

Did you notice in the drama, the prosecutor mentioned Nevill phoning after he had been shot twice in the mouth. Bamber did not suggest Nevill could have called earlier.

Everyone at trial went by the evidence -

Nevill's short call.

What Nevill said.

Nevill's 4 upstairs shots.

A fully fit Nevill negating the situation instead of phoning anyone.

[Kaldin]

Lots of mights.

Did you notice in the drama, the prosecutor mentioned Nevill phoning after he had been shot twice in the mouth. Bamber did not suggest Nevill could have called earlier.

Everyone at trial went by the evidence -

Nevill's short call.

What Nevill said.

Nevill's 4 upstairs shots.

A fully fit Nevill negating the situation instead of phoning anyone.

Of course there are a lot of "mights". Your idea that Nevill was asleep in bed is also a "might", it's just that you present it differently.

The drama isn't evidence Adam, and there wasn't time to go into all that.

If you're not going to accept anyone else's point of view and their "mights", I'm wasting my time talking to you.

[Adam]

Of course there are a lot of "mights". Your idea that Nevill was asleep in bed is also a "might", it's just that you present it differently.

The drama isn't evidence Adam, and there wasn't time to go into all that.

If you're not going to accept anyone else's point of view and their "mights", I'm wasting my time talking to you.

I don't know if the court scenes went by trial transcripts. Apart from 'that is what you have to establish'.

Obviously Nevill was in bed asleep when Bamber entered the bedroom.

The only suggestions of what Nevill was doing when Sheila got the rifle ready is sleeping, showering & watching the TV test card.

A lot of 'mights' would have to happen for Nevill to make a call while fully fit, then end up getting 4 shots upstairs, two from inches away. Too many for even Bamber to ever suggest.

[arthur]

I mean the whole episode has a slightly ridiculous 'penny dredful' drama about. Bit of a sledgehammer frame up story. Phone call to police- Sheila gone crazy with gun -phone call to Jeremy Sheila- gone crazy with gun - phone call to Julie -Sheila gone crazy with gun. That should just about do it...

All a bit to hammy and convenient, just sounds as if someone is trying to hard to stitch somebody up. I don't buy it.

[Adam]

Yes it was a night of strange phone calls.

Bamber to Julie at 10am. Bamber unable to remember what they spoke about for 20 minutes. Even though he called her.

Nevill to Bamber after being shot 4 times.

Nevill to the fifth furthest away police station.

Bamber to the fifth furthest away police station.

Bamber to Julie to hear a friendly voice.

Bamber to Julie telling her not to go to work.

[Roch]

I mean the whole episode has a slightly ridiculous 'penny dredful' drama about. Bit of a sledgehammer frame up story. Phone call to police- Sheila gone crazy with gun -phone call to Jeremy Sheila- gone crazy with gun - phone call to Julie -Sheila gone crazy with gun. That should just about do it...

All a bit to hammy and convenient, just sounds as if someone is trying to hard to stitch somebody up. I don't buy it.

Many people who approach the case to try and understand it, seem to think that the protagonists in the farmhouse and Jeremy himself, should have acted in a completely rational and structured way.

Whether you were bemused or startled (as Jeremy may have been if he was woken through the night) or whether you were terrified and alternating between fight / flight mechanisms within the dreadful situation inside the farmhouse - there is no guarantee you would act in a manner that meets the expectations of anybody trying fathom events from the comfort of a safe distance.