Defence agree with prosecution over when Nevill would have phoned Jeremy:

[Adam]

The evidence from Bamber does match Nevill phoning him after receiving 4 shots. From Sheila -

'Please come over'

'Sheila'

'Gone crazy'.

'Got the gun'

The call only lasting around 4 seconds.

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A man phoning his son at 3am after being shot 4 times, would be the strangest action anyone has ever done. Of that both supporters and guilters agree.

[Kaldin]

You're just repeating yourself Adam. Sheila going crazy and having the gun doesn't mean she's actually using the gun at the time. They could be two separate things.

[Adam]

You're just repeating yourself Adam. Sheila going crazy and having the gun doesn't mean she's actually using the gun at the time. They could be two separate things.

Jeremy when testifying, the defence, prosecution & OS have never suggested this.

[Kaldin]

Jeremy when testifying, the defence, prosecution & OS have never suggested this.

I don't see why you started this thread. If they didn't suggest it, there's nothing much to say, except they should have suggested it, and I've already said that.

[Adam]

I don't see why you started this thread. If they didn't suggest it, there's nothing much to say, except they should have suggested it, and I've already said that.

We agree Nevill would not phone Jeremy after being shot 4 times.

However there is disagreement between supporters over this.

[arthur]

But surely the real point of this phone call is that there is, at the very least, reasonable doubt over whether Bamber was lying.

Sheila may well have moved the gun before she started 'going crazy'...Neville could've been about to call Jeremy as Sheila picks up the gun...nobody really knows what actually happened. Could easily say the phone call was part of Bamber's cunning plan..but there's no clear proof of that.

My first post about this case and I hope posters will understand if I ask for clarification now and again. Cheers.

[David1819]

But surely the real point of this phone call is that there is, at the very least, reasonable doubt over whether Bamber was lying.

Sheila may well have moved the gun before she started 'going crazy'...Neville could've been about to call Jeremy as Sheila picks up the gun...nobody really knows what actually happened. Could easily say the phone call was part of Bamber's cunning plan..but there's no clear proof of that.

My first post about this case and I hope posters will understand if I ask for clarification now and again. Cheers.

Even if you could prove a call happened. Some will just say he rang his answer phone from the farm.

[Jan]

The evidence from Bamber does match Nevill phoning him after receiving 4 shots. From Sheila -

'Please come over'

'Sheila'

'Gone crazy'.

'Got the gun'

The call only lasting around 4 seconds.

----------

A man phoning his son at 3am after being shot 4 times, would be the strangest action anyone has ever done. Of that both supporters and guilters agree.

It does not match neville having been shot . That’s just your assumption.

And I repeat if the call was part of the intricate plan he would have phoned 999 .

Why would he make himself look suspicious.

This crime would have taken very intricate and complicated planning . So he outdid have thought a lot about the “ faked “ call . So there is no reason he as the murderer would not have called 999 .

The call makes less sense with him as the guilty party .

[Adam]

The defence would have looked at different alternatives of when Nevill could have phoned. Based on the lenght of the call and what Jeremy said Nevill said to him.

Was Sheila upstairs with the rifle?  Was she locked in the shower room?

They concluded and agreed with the prosecution that the call was made after Nevill had been shot 4 times.

The CT have never given an alternative suggestion.

[Adam]

The defence suggesting Nevill phoned before being shot, was not an option.

They would have to make up a scenario of how after the call, Nevill then allowed Sheila to get upstairs & then allowed her to shoot him 4 times upstairs, twice from close range in the face.

This would just undermine the defence case as there is no credible scenario. It would also show they did not believe Nevill rang after being shot 4 times.

[Adam]

As suggested by David, Nevill could have been sleeping when Sheila got the rifle ready & returned upstairs.

Nevill and June being shot in the bedroom in/by the bed.

Nevill running downsrairs to ring Jeremy.

[Roch]

But surely the real point of this phone call is that there is, at the very least, reasonable doubt over whether Bamber was lying.

Sheila may well have moved the gun before she started 'going crazy'...Neville could've been about to call Jeremy as Sheila picks up the gun...nobody really knows what actually happened. Could easily say the phone call was part of Bamber's cunning plan..but there's no clear proof of that.

My first post about this case and I hope posters will understand if I ask for clarification now and again. Cheers.

An excellent first post.

Back in 2011/2012, I was told that DS Stan Jones had employed a tactic of telling some witnesses that Jeremy lied about the call he received from his dad and that it never happened.  In fact, neither the police nor Jeremy could prove or disprove the existence of Nevill's alleged call to Jeremy.

Imagine if you are told by a detective that Jeremy was lying about that call: what would be the likely impact on your own thinking regarding events, upon receipt of such information?  Are you going to question the detective's claims or are you going to start feeling very uneasy about Jeremy?

[Steve_uk]

As suggested by David, Nevill could have been sleeping when Sheila got the rifle ready & returned upstairs.

Nevill and June being shot in the bedroom in/by the bed.

Nevill running downsrairs to ring Jeremy.

Ironic since it was the latter who had removed the bedroom telephone in the first place.

[Kaldin]

Ironic since it was the latter who had removed the bedroom telephone in the first place.

There is evidence to suggest that Jeremy did not remove the phone from the bedroom.

He didn't need to remove the phone from the bedroom. All he needed to do was take the phone in the kitchen off the hook so that the line was unavailable from the bedroom.

[Kaldin]

But surely the real point of this phone call is that there is, at the very least, reasonable doubt over whether Bamber was lying.

Sheila may well have moved the gun before she started 'going crazy'...Neville could've been about to call Jeremy as Sheila picks up the gun...nobody really knows what actually happened. Could easily say the phone call was part of Bamber's cunning plan..but there's no clear proof of that.

My first post about this case and I hope posters will understand if I ask for clarification now and again. Cheers.

Hello and welcome.

Of course there's reasonable doubt. Whether Jeremy lied about the call or not is a matter of opinion, but I think it's daft to say that he couldn't have received a call from Nevill.

Many people have assumed that Sheila "going crazy" and having the gun means she had shot someone, but that's not necessarily the case.