The ITV Drama

[David1819]

The issue there is, they weren't implicated in the murder and he was.
So, in normal circumstances they would be grieving relatives who at short notice would have to collude and concoct a plan to frame him. That becomes a less likely scenario than JB just having done the deed.

I do not like the silencer find. But even without, I think the evidence points to JB, but that's just my opinion.

Physical evidence rules the silencer out being used in the crime. What else do you have?

[Adam]

Physical evidence rules the silencer out being used in the crime. What else do you have?

Sheila's blood and the aga paint in the silencer shows it was used.

You are well aware there is a mountain of sourced forensic evidence. Most not opposed (or mentioned) by the CT.

I will post it again for TheBrilliantMistake.

[Adam]

1.

Perfectly clean palm of hands on Sheila - Not disputed - COA


2.

One blood mark on back of hand of Sheila - Not disputed - COA


3.

Extremley low levels of lead found on hands on Sheila.  Not consistent with handling a rifle. Significantly higher traces expected - Not disputed - COA, BAMBER'S DEFENCE.


4.

Well manicured nails on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.


5.

No broken nails - Not disputed COA.


6.

Nails in tact - Not disputed - COA.


7.

No marks or indentations on Sheila's fingers - Not disputed - COA.


8.

No blood on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.


9.

No dirt on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.


10.

No powder on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.


11.

Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE, BAMBER, JUDGE.


12.

No trace of any lead dust coating on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.


13.

No traces of the lubricant from re loading twice - Not disputed - COA


14.

Very clean feet - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.


15.

Feet free from significant blood staining - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.


16.

Bamber doing nothing between 3.10am - 3.26/36am - Not disputed - COA, BAMBER.


17.

No debris such as sugar on feet - Not disputed - COA.


18.

No foot injuries after bare footed aggressive movement around big house & brutal fight - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST, COA.


19.

Only Sheila Caffell's blood on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.


20.

No presence of firearm residue on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.


21.

No trace of rifle oil on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.


22.

No mention of nightdress damage from agressive movement and brutal kitchen fight - Not disputed - COA.


23.

No facial injuries on Sheila - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST, COA.


24.

Sheila avoiding kitchen fight injuries with no body or face protection - Not disputed - COA.


25.

Nevill's massive height/weight advantage over Sheila - Not disputed - COA.


26.

Impossibility of shower removing evidence off Sheila - Not disputed - COA.


27.

Impossibility of Sheila showering after killing herself - Not disputed - SCIENTIFIC FACT.


28.

Nevill being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting had just got out of bed - Not disputed - COA.


29.

Sheila being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting she had just got out of bed - Not disputed - COA.


30.

Paint in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - COA.


31.

Aga scratch's - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - COA. 


32.

Sheila's blood in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - COA.


33.

No blood in the rifle end - Not disputed - COA. 


34.

Sheila's legs pulled after second shot - Not disputed - COA.


35.

Blood underneath the bible - Not disputed - COA.


36.

A lot of blood on Nevill's side of the bed - Not disputed - COA.


37.

Large scale multiple mental & physical effects of Haloperidol - Not disputed. - INTERNET ARTICLES, YOUTUBE, COA.


38.

Sheila having Haloperidol in her body - Not disputed - COA.


39.

Sheila's condition hours before the massacre - Not disputed. Bamber being a main witness - BAMBER & OTHER PEOPLE, COA.


40.

Sheila under sedation - Not disputed - COA.


41.

Easy window entrance into WHF - Not disputed. Agreed by Bamber. - BAMBER, COA.


42.

Shutting kitchen window from outside - Disputed in 2017 but 20 independent sources prove otherwise - COA.


43.

No better massacre weapon options for Bamber - Not disputed - FORUM.


44.

Professor Herbert Leon Mcdonell - Not disputed after Bamber hired him - WILKES'S BOOK.


45.

Easy bike routes to WHF - Not disputed - COA.


46.

Bike brought to Bamber's cottage just before the massacre - Not disputed - BAMBERS POLICE INTERVIEWS, COA.


47.

June not waking or getting woken by Nevill - Not disputed - COA.


48.

Nevill's back burns - Not disputed. Suggestion burns were caused minus silencer rejected - BAMBER, TONIGHT PROGRAMME, COA.


49.

2012 CCRC court judgement - judicial review request made & rejected - JUDICIAL REVIEW DOCUMENT.


50.

The twins not waking - Not disputed - COA. 


51.

Bamber's call to the police - Not disputed - COA. 


52.

Nevill's horrific injuries - Not disputed - COA.


53.

Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE STATEMENTS.


54.

No valid Sheila scenario - Not disputed - OS & FORUM.


55.

Bamber's 3am call to Julie - Not disputed - COA. 


56.

Nevill's 2/4 second call to Bamber - Not disputed - BAMBER, COA.


57.

Bamber asking the police to pick him up - Not disputed - WILKES, CRIMES, HEARTS & CORONETS.


58.

Nevill's back burns - Not disputed - COA. 


59.

Ease for a man to lift & carry a woman - Not disputed. YOUTUBE VIDEO.


60.

Crime scenes of 5 individuals - Not disputed - COA. 


61.

Bamber's found hacksaw - Not disputed - COA.


62.

Bible on Sheila's arm- Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS.


63.

Only execution period available to Bamber, 12am - 3am - Not disputed - BAMBER


64.

Housekeeper evidence of items around the sink being moved - Not disputed- PB WS, WILKES'S BOOK


65.

Only Sheila receiving a contact shot in a location that produces back splatter- Not disputed, COA.


66.

Bloodied plam print on Sheila's nightdress - Not disputed. COA.


67.

Nevill being lifted onto a coal scuttle - Not disputed. CRIME SCENE PICTURES, COA.


68.

Dried blood on Sheila - Not Disputed. PATHOLOGIST.


69.

Sheila having to load prior to first shots - Not disputed. COA.

[David1819]

1.

Perfectly clean palm of hands on Sheila - Not disputed - COA


2.

One blood mark on back of hand of Sheila - Not disputed - COA


3.

Extremley low levels of lead found on hands on Sheila.  Not consistent with handling a rifle. Significantly higher traces expected - Not disputed - COA, BAMBER'S DEFENCE.


4.

Well manicured nails on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.


5.

No broken nails - Not disputed COA.


6.

Nails in tact - Not disputed - COA.


7.

No marks or indentations on Sheila's fingers - Not disputed - COA.


8.

No blood on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.


9.

No dirt on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.


10.

No powder on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.


11.

Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE, BAMBER.


12.

No trace of any lead dust coating on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.


13.

No traces of the lubricant from re loading twice - Not disputed - COA


14.

Very clean feet - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.


15.

Feet free from significant blood staining - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.


16.

Bamber doing nothing between 3.10am - 3.26/36am - Not disputed - BAMBER


17.

No debris such as sugar on feet - Not disputed - COA.


18.

No foot injuries after bare footed aggressive movement around big house & brutal fight - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST.


19.

Only Sheila Caffell's blood on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.


20.

No presence of firearm residue on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.


21.

No trace of rifle oil on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.


22.

No mention of nightdress damage from agressive movement and brutal kitchen fight - Not disputed - COA.


23.

No facial injuries on Sheila - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST.


24.

Sheila avoiding kitchen fight injuries with no body or face protection - Not disputed - FORUM.


25.

Nevill's massive height/weight advantage over Sheila - Not disputed - ACCEPTED FACT.


26.

Impossibility of shower removing evidence off Sheila - Not disputed - SCIENTIFIC FACT.


27.

Impossibility of Sheila showering after killing herself - Not disputed - SCIENTIFIC FACT.


28.

Nevill being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting had just got out of bed - Not disputed - PHOTOS.


29.

Sheila being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting she had just got out of bed - Not disputed - PHOTOS.


30.

Paint in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES. .


31.

Aga scratch's - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES.


32.

Blood in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES.


33.

No blood in the rifle end - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.


34.

Sheila's legs pulled after second shot - Not disputed - COA.


35.

Blood underneath the bible - Not disputed - COA.


36.

A lot of blood on Nevill's side of the bed - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS.


37.

Large scale multiple mental & physical effects of Haloperidol - Not disputed. - INTERNET ARTICLES, YOUTUBE.


38.

Sheila having Haloperidol in her body - Not disputed - COA.


39.

Sheila's condition hours before the massacre - Not disputed. Bamber being a main witness - BAMBER & OTHER PEOPLE.


40.

Sheila under sedation - Not disputed - COA.


41.

Easy window entrance into WHF - Not disputed. Agreed by Bamber. - BAMBER.


42.

Shutting kitchen window from outside - Disputed in 2017 but 20 independent sources prove otherwise - 20 SOURCES IN THE LIBRARY.


43.

No better massacre weapon options for Bamber - Not disputed - FORUM.


44.

Professor Herbert Leon Mcdonell - Not disputed after Bamber hired him - WILKES'S BOOK.


45.

Easy bike routes to WHF - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.


46.

Bike brought to Bamber's cottage just before the massacre - Not disputed - BAMBERS POLICE INTERVIEWS.


47.

June not waking or getting woken by Nevill - Not disputed - COA.


48.

Nevill's back burns - Not disputed. Suggestion burns were caused minus silencer rejected - BAMBER, TONIGHT PROGRAMME.


49.

2012 CCRC court judgement - judicial review request made & rejected - JUDICIAL REVIEW DOCUMENT.


50.

The twins not waking - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.


51.

Bamber's call to the police - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.


52.

Nevill's horrific injuries - Not disputed - COURT OF APPEAL.


53.

Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE STATEMENTS.


54.

No valid Sheila scenario - Not disputed - OS & FORUM.


55.

Bamber's 3am call to Julie - Not disputed - BAMBER.


56.

Nevill's 2/4 second call to Bamber - Not disputed - BAMBER.


57.

Bamber asking the police to pick him up - Not disputed - WILKES, CRIMES, HEARTS & CORONETS.


58.

Nevill's back burns - Not disputed - BAMBER.


59.

Ease for a man to lift & carry a woman - Not disputed. YOUTUBE VIDEO.


60.

Crime scenes of 5 individuals - Not disputed - COA. 


61.

Bamber's found hacksaw - Not disputed - BAMBER.


62.

Bible on Sheila's arm- Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS.


63.

Only execution period available to Bamber, 12am - 3am - Not disputed - BAMBER


64.

Housekeeper evidence of items around the sink being moved - Not disputed- PB WS, WILKES'S BOOK


65.

Only Sheila receiving a contact shot in a location that produces back splatter- Not disputed, COA.


66.

Bloodied plam print on Sheila's nightdress - Not disputed. COA.


67.

Nevill being lifted onto a coal scuttle - Not disputed. CRIME SCENE PICTURES. 


68.

Dried blood on Sheila - PATHOLOGIST


69.

Sheila having to load prior to first shots.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

The Gish Gallop is the fallacious debate tactic of drowning your opponent in a flood of individually-weak arguments in order to prevent rebuttal of the whole argument collection without great effort.

"The Gish Gallop should not be confused with the argumentum ad nauseam, in which the same point is repeated many times. In a Gish Gallop, many bullshit points are given all at once."

[David1819]

Sheila's blood and the aga paint in the silencer shows it was used.

You are well aware there is a mountain of sourced forensic evidence. Most not opposed (or mentioned) by the CT.

I will post it again for TheBrilliantMistake.

The muzzle imprints on Sheila's chin, the marks on Nevills back, the marks on Nevills arm, absence of bone, skin tissue or Nicholas in the silencer and the absence of debris under the AGA rule the moderator out. No matter how many gish gallops of BS you flood the forum with. 

[lookout]

Adam stretching things out to make it look a lot doesn't wash with me. I get bored halfway through.

[Adam]

Adam stretching things out to make it look a lot doesn't wash with me. I get bored halfway through.

I know you already know the COA document inside out Lookout.

[lookout]

I know you already know the COA document inside out Lookout.

Yes---my way Adam.

[Jan]

But the blood on the silencer was not proved to be sheilas .and adam that list proves nothing about who the murder was , so what was the point ?

[Adam]

But the blood on the silencer was not proved to be sheilas .and adam that list proves nothing about who the murder was , so what was the point ?

76.

Inside the moderator, on the four or five baffles nearest to the end from which the bullet would exit, there was a considerable amount of blood. At one point blood had pooled to form a flake when it dried, and this flake was subjected to group testing.

Results were obtained for four of the five tests performed. Mr Hayward, the forensic scientist said that they showed that the blood could have come from Sheila Caffell but not from any of the other individuals involved.

Mr. Hayward said that there was a possibility that the blood could be a mixture of blood from more than one person and if it was, a mixture of blood from Nevill Bamber and June Bamber could account for the findings in the grouping tests. However he judged that possibility to be a "remote" one.

[Adam]

But the blood on the silencer was not proved to be sheilas .and adam that list proves nothing about who the murder was , so what was the point ?

The forensic evidence shows it was not Sheila. Surely you do not agree with Mike that it could have been a hit man team.

[Jan]

76.

Inside the moderator, on the four or five baffles nearest to the end from which the bullet would exit, there was a considerable amount of blood. At one point blood had pooled to form a flake when it dried, and this flake was subjected to group testing.

Results were obtained for four of the five tests performed. Mr Hayward, the forensic scientist said that they showed that the blood could have come from Sheila Caffell but not from any of the other individuals involved.

Mr. Hayward said that there was a possibility that the blood could be a mixture of blood from more than one person and if it was, a mixture of blood from Nevill Bamber and June Bamber could account for the findings in the grouping tests. However he judged that possibility to be a "remote" one.

That’s not the document I was talking about .

[Jan]

The forensic evidence shows it was not Sheila. Surely you do not agree with Mike that it could have been a hit man team.

It does not show it was not sheila . Otherwise we would not all be here .

There is also no forensic evidence to connect Jeremy with the crime . As you well know .

[lookout]

The guilters aren't half forcing the issue of guilty !

[TheBrilliantMistake]

Physical evidence rules the silencer out being used in the crime. What else do you have?

David, it isnt a game where we take sides then do our best to score points.
It is a matter of assessing evidence. Some of it falls against Jeremy, some against Sheila. 'What else do you have?' is such an antagonistic question, needlessly so.

As far as I am aware, the use of the silencer hasn't been proven or disproven, but that is not the argument. The argument here is the probability of family members colluding to either frame JB, or to add a little extra to the evidence, illegally, albeit with a genuine belief of JB's guilt.