The ITV Drama

[ngb1066]

I think NGB would agree with me, investigators have learnt their lesson now with appeals, they take their time investigating and have to have it case ready before CPS will look at it.  It’s very frustrating for victims but from a case being reported to actually going to court could take 2 years now.

Yes that is quite right RJ.

[guest7363]

Yes that is quite right RJ.

The CPS are very very reluctant to take cases that aren’t a high percentage possible conviction now days, I wish I could talk more NGB, not wise on here though 😂😂😂

[ngb1066]

The CPS are very very reluctant to take cases that aren’t a high percentage possible conviction now days, I wish I could talk more NGB, not wise on here though 😂😂😂

I agree RJ. 

[guest7363]

I agree RJ.

Would you agree there is a high bar set for Bamber now though NGB

[Jane]

Your whole campaign to release a mass murderer is utter nonsense.

Steve, I really can't say that I totally believe NGB to be either in, or running a campaign to get JB released. Thus far, I don't believe him to have done more that confirm points of law. Facts as opposed to beliefs. I believe he's keeping his cards close to his chest in attempt to keep both sides happy. At the moment, it appears, because of what's going on, that supporters have the edge. Things change.

 I, too, look back on Julie's behaviour at the time, as being indefensible, however, as a 22 year old, I don't believe she was pulling the strings supporters accuse her of. I also wonder, for how long the obvious vendetta against her will run.

[Jan]

do you think if the CPS had been in place at the time of the murders that the silencer evidence would have been admitted?

taking into account it was removed from the crime scene , handled by several people , they did not photograph the alleged hair and blood , they took the silencer apart in uncontrolled conditions meaning the evidence could have been contaminated in the boot of the car , on the kitchen table or in the wardrobe where it may or may not have been put?
then when it was collected it was removed incorrectly ( that is not using gloves or the appropriate container ).

I don't think so .

[Caroline]

It is a valid appeal point.

I agree but it would surely be a technicality? She had no paid incentive to go to the police in the first place

[Steve_uk]

Steve, I really can't say that I totally believe NGB to be either in, or running a campaign to get JB released. Thus far, I don't believe him to have done more that confirm points of law. Facts as opposed to beliefs. I believe he's keeping his cards close to his chest in attempt to keep both sides happy. At the moment, it appears, because of what's going on, that supporters have the edge. Things change.

 I, too, look back on Julie's behaviour at the time, as being indefensible, however, as a 22 year old, I don't believe she was pulling the strings supporters accuse her of. I also wonder, for how long the obvious vendetta against her will run.

I think she's an easy target, the weakest link in the chain, I suspect ulterior motives and I'd like ngb1066 to explain how he came to the conclusion that the claim Jeremy Bamber made that he received a telephone call from his father in the middle of the night was genuine.

[ngb1066]

Would you agree there is a high bar set for Bamber now though NGB

There is in practice now a high bar for JB to secure a fresh appeal.  The CCRC are frankly fairly hostile to him now.  Having referred the case once to the Court of Appeal and having seen some fairly strong comments in the Court of Appeal judgement they are very wary of sending the case back for a third appeal.  They were not very helpful to JB in the run up to the last submissions in 2012.  They have declined to use their powers to compel disclosure to the extent requested by the defence, for reasons I considered very weak.

I think that to persuade the CCRC to refer the case again will require very strong grounds based upon new evidence, not available at trial or at the earlier appeals.   I am out of the loop now so I do not know how far JB's current legal have got.

[Jane]

do you think if the CPS had been in place at the time of the murders that the silencer evidence would have been admitted?

taking into account it was removed from the crime scene , handled by several people , they did not photograph the alleged hair and blood , they took the silencer apart in uncontrolled conditions meaning the evidence could have been contaminated in the boot of the car , on the kitchen table or in the wardrobe where it may or may not have been put?
then when it was collected it was removed incorrectly ( that is not using gloves or the appropriate container ).

I don't think so .

I don't think there's a single person here who would say it was a good investigation, but however bad it may have been, it still won't remove the gun from Jeremy's hand.

[ngb1066]

I agree but it would surely be a technicality? She had no paid incentive to go to the police in the first place

It could not stand as a sole ground of appeal.  However taken with other material it could seriously undermine JM's credibility which would give additional weight to submissions that the convictions could no longer be regarded as safe.  The Court of Appeal obviously considers the individual grounds of appeal and assesses them individually, then looks at the case overall in the round to decide whether the convictions are safe, in other words whether there must be at least a reasonable doubt about guilt.

[Jan]

I think she's an easy target, the weakest link in the chain, I suspect ulterior motives and I'd like ngb1066 to explain how he came to the conclusion that the claim Jeremy Bamber made that he received a telephone call from his father in the middle of the night was genuine.

tbh if you were innocent you would jump on anything that did not seem to add up and if there are documents /times/ changes to documents that are unclear of course you are going to try and use them .if he is innocent he has no idea who his father was trying to call when the phone was engaged . 


you could look at it from another angle - if he was guilty he would know the second call did not exist so you would not be bringing such close attention to it .

[lookout]

I don't think there's a single person here who would say it was a good investigation, but however bad it may have been, it still won't remove the gun from Jeremy's hand.

Where's that new phrase come from ? I would say that judging by prints found on the shotgun ( Sheila's ) and prints from an unknown male that Jeremy wasn't the only one who handled guns.

[Jan]

tbh if you were innocent you would jump on anything that did not seem to add up and if there are documents /times/ changes to documents that are unclear of course you are going to try and use them .if he is innocent he has no idea who his father was trying to call when the phone was engaged . 


you could look at it from another angle - if he was guilty he would know the second call did not exist so you would not be bringing such close attention to it .

sorry i thought you were talking about the second call that has been claimed . Not the first .

[Steve_uk]

tbh if you were innocent you would jump on anything that did not seem to add up and if there are documents /times/ changes to documents that are unclear of course you are going to try and use them .if he is innocent he has no idea who his father was trying to call when the phone was engaged . 


you could look at it from another angle - if he was guilty he would know the second call did not exist so you would not be bringing such close attention to it .

He won't explain because he can't. You would think that because it cannot be disproved is not a strong enough reason to campaign to have a mass murderer released.