Is there a budding Sir Patrick Moore or Brian May out there?

[mike tesko]

Mike

Where did they arrive at WHF please?

? Front
? Left handside (BOX ROOM , TWINS ROOM side of house)
? Rear (coal shed)
? Right handside

Which ONE of the above four?

Thanks

The occupants of CA07, (3.48am) and Jeremy (3.52am) arrived at the scene and parked their vehicles in Pages Lane, in close proximity to what are known, or referred to, as the farm cottages!

When Bews, Myall and Jeremy went on a recce of the farmhouse shortly after arriving at the scene, their route to the farmhouse was as follows:-

They turned right off Pages Lane, and followed the farm track around to the court yard side of the premises (lets call it the red brick part of the house) with the bathroom with its red curtains, and the twins bedroom with the green curtains situated on the first floor..

Then, after this they went to the right of the farmhouse (initially) and stood in a field facing towards the front of the farmhouse, but Jeremy told me that at one stage because PC Myall thought he had seen someone at his parents bedroom window (top left), they went into the grounds of the farmhouse and took temporary cover behind some raised flower beds in the front garden! Now I have had many a dispute with members of this forum and elsewhere, where they say there was no such raised flower beds at all in the front garden of the farmhouse at that time! All I can say, is that Jeremy was very specific when he spoke to me about what happened and where some of the observations of the figure at his parents bedroom window had been made from!

Jeremy has always maintained to me that himself and the two police officers were crouching down behind these small walled flower beds when they observed the person at the parents bedroom window!

Some people say that there were no bricked flower beds at all in the front garden of the farmhouse, and that it was a hedge which separated the front garden from the field in front of it! All I can say, is that Jeremy conveyed to me the two separate vantage points of the front part of the farmhouse, as seen by himself and the two police officers that morning, initially they were stood in a field at the front of the farmhouse behind a hedge, and latterly they had made their way into the front garden and took refuge behind these raised flower beds, he told me these raised flower beds were built out of brick!

It was whilst they were all taking cover behind these raised flower beds that Jeremy saw the person, who he described to me as being a silhouetted figure who was standing to the right hand side of his parents bedroom window! I asked him on several occasions if he could say with any degree of certainty whether the person they all saw was male or female, in particular was it any member of his family, or not?

He responded by saying that it was not possible from his vantage paint to say who that person was...

Now, his response was an extraordinary one, since it would have been the easiest thing in the world for him to say that he saw Sheila at his parents bedroom window, on that / this occasion, but instead he gave me what I believe was an honest explanation, he said he 'couldn't tell'...

[Nigel]

The occupants of CA07, (3.48am) and Jeremy (3.52am) arrived at the scene and parked their vehicles in Pages Lane, in close proximity to what are known, or referred to, as the farm cottages!

When Bews, Myall and Jeremy went on a recce of the farmhouse shortly after arriving at the scene, their route to the farmhouse was as follows:-

They turned right off Pages Lane, and followed the farm track around to the court yard side of the premises (lets call it the red brick part of the house) with the bathroom with its red curtains, and the twins bedroom with the green curtains situated on the first floor..

They went to the right of the farmhouse (initially) and stood in a filed facing twowards the front of the farmhouse, but Jeremy told me that at one stage because PC Myall thought he had seen someone at his parents bedroom window (top left), they went into the grounds of the farmhouse and took temporary cover behind some raised flower beds in the front garden! Now I have had many a dispute with members of this forum and elsewhere, where they say there was no such raised flower beds at all in the front garden of the farmhouse at that time! All I can say, is that Jeremy was very specific when he spoke to me about what happened and where some of the observations of the figure at his parents bedroom window had been made from!

Jeremy has always maintained to me that himself and the two police officers were crouching down behind these small walled flower beds when they observed the person at the parents bedroom window!

Some people say that there were no bricked flower beds at all in the front garden of the farmhouse, and that it was a hedge which separated the front garden from the field in front of it!

Thanks for the detailed reply.

So in the video https://youtu.be/yPRd912xv9M , where was Bews located? when he does a left to right, clockwise motion with his hand.

ie THE START of the circumnavigation.

? Front
? Left handside (BOX ROOM , TWINS ROOM side of house)
? Rear (coal shed)
? Right handside


thanks

[mike tesko]

Thanks for the detailed reply.

So in the video https://youtu.be/yPRd912xv9M , where was Bews located? when he does a left to right, clockwise motion with his hand.

ie THE START of the circumnavigation.

? Front
? Left handside (BOX ROOM , TWINS ROOM side of house)
? Rear (coal shed)
? Right handside


thanks

Based upon the account given to me by Jeremy in fine detail, Bews was at the front of the farmhouse, with three windows above the front door, 'top left' window being the parents bedroom window, 'top middle' window being the upper landing window, and 'top right' being Sheila Caffells bedroom window!

I think it is somewhat apparent that when Bews starts talking about the movement that he gestures with his hand the top left hand side of the farmhouse, but then corrects himself and deliberately mentions the window top right, which as we know was Sheila Caffells bedroom window, a window that was prone to have shadows cast upon it by the branches, twigs and leafs of nearby trees, as easily demonstrated by reference to the following image..

[mike tesko]

What I do find particularly interesting, concerning your interest in the box room window on the red brick side of the farmhouse, is the fact that...

[Nigel]

Based upon the account given to me by Jeremy in fine detail, Bews was at the front of the farmhouse, with three windows above the front door, top left window being the parents bedroom window, top middle window being the upper landing window, and to right being Sheila Caffells bedroom window!

I think it is somewhat apparent that when Bews starts talking about the movement that he gestures with his hand the top left hand side of the farmhouse, but then corrects himself and deliberately mentions the window top right, which as we know was Sheila Caffells bedroom window, a window that was prone to have shadows cast upon it by the branches, twigs and leafs of nearby trees, as easily demonstrated by reference to the following image..

Thanks Mike,

Well based on the video they hadn't seen 'trick of the light' at FRONT.

'Trick of the Light' occurred side of house, box room, twins room side.

Otherwise surely Bews would have contacted fire arms team and 'stayed put'

At the FRONT. (Front door/pillars)...

Surely?...

nb
Can we discuss Jeremy's account later, thanks

[mike tesko]

Thanks Mike,

Well based on the video they hadn't seen 'trick of the light' at FRONT.

'Trick of the Light' occurred side of house, box room, twins room side. To my knowledge, there was never a sighting of anybody, or movement at the box room window, on the red brick part of the premises, and I don't think Jeremy was made aware of such a sighting at that stage, prior to them moving into a field at the front of the farmhouse behind a hedge, and then, as I say upon entering the grounds of the front garden and taking refuge behind raised flower beds in the front garden

Otherwise surely Bews would have contacted fire arms team and 'stayed put' The only definite sighting of the person (whoever it was) was made as far as Jeremy is concerned whilst he and the two police officers were at the front of the farmhouse, initially in a field behind a hedge, and secondly from their vantage point  where they were taking refuge behind raised flower beds in the front garden!

Neither Bews nor Myall had personal radios with them when they went on the recce of the premises with Jeremy (these were left in the patrol car with PS Saxby) - hence, why after the observations I am alluding to, Bews, Myall and Jeremy rushed back to the patrol car manned by PS Saxby, and that was when PS Bews passed the situation report, requesting that the firearms team should be called out because of what they had just witnessed...

At the FRONT....

Surely?...

[Nigel]

"To my knowledge, there was never a sighting of anybody, or movement at the box room window, on the red brick part of the premises"

This was 'Trick of The Light' side.

[mike tesko]

Can we discuss Jeremy's account later, thanks

Well, Jeremy's account is a fascinating one, obtained from him under the strictest of measures, where he knew that I was no mug, and that it was important to me to hear the truth from him, regarding these and similar matters - I made it plain to Jeremy that if he ever thought of lying to me about anything I asked him about, and that lie flagged up, that I would never be able to help him!

Jeremy knew right from the beginning, that if he told me lies, it wouldn't look good for him!

[mike tesko]

"To my knowledge, there was never a sighting of anybody, or movement at the box room window, Nothing of the sort that Jeremy knew anything at all about, for sure, nobody seen at, and no movement at all at, that box room window, on the red bricked part of the premises - I agree...!on the red brick part of the premises"

This was 'Trick of The Light' side. And, what motive do you have in mind, for Bews and Myall suggesting that the box room window on the red bricked part of the premises, being the first floor window where this 'trick of light' took place, or occurred?

Are you trying to imply that Bews and Myall introduced this false explanation because they were aware of the sudden appearance of the rifle at the box room window minutes prior to the raid team entering the premises?

[Nigel]

"To my knowledge, there was never a sighting of anybody, or movement at the box room window, Nothing of the sort that Jeremy knew anything at all about, for sure, nobody seen at, and no movement at all at, that box room window, on the red bricked part of the premises - I agree...!on the red brick part of the premises"


-------

So which Window of which room was Sgt. Bewes referring to very specifically https://youtu.be/yPRd912xv9M , top far right.?

Baring in mind we have established it was not the FRONT (front door/pillars) of house.

[mike tesko]

You see...

Nobody other than WPC Jeapes, and PC Brown refer to that rifle being seen at the box room window on the red bricked part of the farmhouse! That rifle wasn't there, for example, when Bews, Myall and Jeremy approached the premises at around 4.00am to 4.02am...

It had to have been placed there later on, by somebody who was clearly still alive inside the farmhouse!

[mike tesko]

"To my knowledge, there was never a sighting of anybody, or movement at the box room window, Nothing of the sort that Jeremy knew anything at all about, for sure, nobody seen at, and no movement at all at, that box room window, on the red bricked part of the premises - I agree...!on the red brick part of the premises"


-------

So which Window of which room was Sgt. Bews referring to very specially, top far right.?
 To my mind, he was referring to Sheila Caffells bedroom window at the front of the farmhouse, but it is possible that he deliberately speaks of the window in question, in a confused state because he has in the back of his mind, the sudden appearance of the rifle at the box room window on the red bricked part of the farmhouse! Seems possible to me, that Bews has deliberately sought to imply that anything that anybody thought they had seen at the box room window (on red bricked part of the premises) could simply be dismissed as a 'trick of light', thereby negating the significance of the rifle being palced at that box room window just before the six man raid team entered the farmhouse!

Baring in mind we have established it was not the FRONT (front door/pillars) of house. I don't think we have quite established that / this at this time to be frank...

 But..

I am mindful that Bews and Myall might have tried to 'muddy the waters' insofar as any sighting of any kind, by anyone, at the box room window on the red bricked part of the farmhouse...

[mike tesko]

But..

I am mindful that Bews and Myall might have tried to 'muddy the waters' insofar as any sighting of any kind, by anyone, at the box room window on the red bricked part of the farmhouse...

Is it possible, that Bews and Myall set out to try and discredit the claims made by Jeapes and Brown that the rifle was ever at the box room window, on the red bricked part of the farmhouse?

[Nigel]

" Bews was at the front of the farmhouse, with three windows above the front door, top left window being the parents bedroom window, top middle window being the upper landing window"

To confirm, this is the area that the three left from to go on their Clockwise (as per Bew's hand motion in video) circumvent of house.?

[mike tesko]

" Bews was at the front of the farmhouse, with three windows above the front door, top left window being the parents bedroom window, top middle window being the upper landing window"

To confirm, this is the area that the three left from to go on their circumvent of house.?

No, Bews, Myall and Jeremy approached the farmhouse from the courtyard side of the premises (that part which houses the bathroom (red curtains), the twins room (green curtains) and the box room windows on the first floor of the red bricked part of whf)..

From 'that' side of the premises, 'they went into a field at the front of the farmhouse' (behind a hedge), where before 'them' was the actual 'front door to the house', above which on the first floor, were three windows, (top left) was the parents bedroom window, (top middle) was the upper landing window, and (top right) was Sheila Caffells bedroom window!