Is there a budding Sir Patrick Moore or Brian May out there?

[Nigel]

Mike,

From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPRd912xv9M&feature=youtu.be I thinks its safe to say "arrived at house" means arrived at front of house.


Therefore based on his left to right clockwise hand motion, it can only be ONE of two windows he is referring to, both arrowed in black:

[Nigel]

Transcript from video:

We arrive, the weather's good, we can see the house, we've got a clear view of the house, although there's no artificial light - we're relying on moonlight; it was a clear summer night [pause] erm, we speak with Jeremy Bamber, who says that potentially there's a [pause] a mad woman in the house with a gun. I already had in the back of my mind I was going to call out the firearms unit, 'cause I wasn't going to go and knock on the front door and risk it being answered by a mad woman with a gun. Erm - also, I didn't want to go close to the building because [pause] if you're seen, then obviously you could become a target yourself, so what,


what I asked Jeremy if he'd mind doing is come with me and Steve Myall, one of the Pcs, on a tour of the perimeter of the farmyard to have a look, see what we could get from the house. As we go round, Steve Myall says "Oh, hang on, stop. I think I saw someone move." And we look up and think 'Where?' He said "That window up there." And he's indicating as we're looking at the back of the building, top right, so first floor on the right-hand side, no light coming out of the building, and I couldn't see anything. We, we look at it for a while, and I said "Are you sure you saw something move?" And he said "Well, I think so." I said "Well, let's move back." We became quite satisfied, after a couple of minutes of just moving ourselves slightly, that we could replicate the same sense of movement, and it wasn't anybody moving, it was just a trick of, literally, a trick of the light.
.....

Because of the fact Sgt Bews said "As we go round" and "we're looking at the back of the building" and gestured left to right anticlockwise.

it can ONLY have been the BOX ROOM window.

A few feet from where Sheila was found dead.

Emphasis on the words "As we", this Emphasises it was at the beginning of the circumvent.

Otherwise would he have said "we had gone round".?

As I say Sgt Bews makes it very much sound that it was at the beginning of the circumvent


Many thanks @reader

[mike tesko]

Mike,

From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPRd912xv9M&feature=youtu.be I thinks its safe to say "arrived at house" means arrived at front of house.


Therefore based on his left to right clockwise hand motion, it can only be ONE of two windows he is referring to, both arrowed in black:

Upon first arrival at the scene, the occupants of CA07 parked up on Pages Lane, close to the farm cottages! Once Jeremy arrived, Bews, Myall and Jeremy went to the side of the farmhouse where the main entrance to the farmhouse was situated! This, Bews and Myall treated as the front of the house! When they talk about the back of the farmhouse, they have got to be on the side of the farmhouse with its front door and one window either side of it at ground floor level, and three windows at first floor level! There is only one bedroom window in the parents bedroom, that is on the side of the farmhouse which Bews refers to as the back of the house! He treats the courtyard door side of the farmhouse, as the front of the house, when in reality it is the back of the house!

Jeremy and the police definitely did not see anyone at the box room window Dow on the first floor! Jeremy says the person they were observing was stood to the right hand side of the parents bedroom window! This means, that the window where the person was stood, and eventually moved off from, was the front of whf, not the back of it - top left!

People should not become confused because Bews did not know what was the front of the farmhouse, as opposed to the back of it, or vice versa!

Remember also, that neither Bews nor Myall, or Saxby, entered the farmhouse at any stage or visited the parents bedroom?

Jeremy is adamant that the person seen was seen at his parents bedroom window, and since there was only one window of the parents bedroom, the person seen moving around in that bedroom, was seen at the top left window in the following image..

[mike tesko]

Rather than take my account of the events, people should contact Jeremy personally, the result will be the same, the person that was seen was seen via the parents bedroom window, not the box room window! The parents bedroom only effectively had one window, the second window had been bricked up, on that side of the farmhouse, where the box room is situated! I can't imagine that Jeremy would want anyone moving the sighting of the person at his parents bedroom window on one side of the farmhouse, to the box room window on another side of the farmhouse...

[Nigel]

Rather than take my account of the events, people should contact Jeremy personally, the result will be the same, the person that was seen was seen via the parents bedroom window, not the box room window! The parents bedroom only effectively had one window, the second window had been bricked up, on that side of the farmhouse, where the box room is situated! I can't imagine that Jeremy would want anyone moving the sighting of the person at his parents bedroom window on one side of the farmhouse, to the box room window on another side of the farmhouse...

I have no doubt Jeremy is correct, and saw movement behind the Parents bedroom window...
As the box room (the Room Steve Myall saw movement) is adjoined to the Parents bedroom.

...

I'm sorry I don't know how anyone could mistake the 'Front of the house' the Front door with pillars either side is very imposing.

I understand, there is not a rear of house (area behind coal shed would be this, but its non descript), so to speak, it is more accurately described as 'Side(s)' two.

[David1819]

I have no doubt Jeremy is correct, and saw movement behind the Parents bedroom window...
As the box room (the Room Steve Myall saw movement) is adjoined to the Parents bedroom.

...

I'm sorry I don't know how anyone could mistake the 'Front of the house' the Front door with pillars either side is very imposing.

I understand, there is not a rear of house (area behind coal shed would be this, but its non descript), so to speak, it is more accurately described as 'Side(s)' two.

[Nigel]

For clarity I have marked F as Front

From this arial photograph there appears to be a number of ways to access the Farm. based on that I can imagine anyone 'new' to the property may consider 'Side' to be Front...if they had not seen Front.

[Nigel]

Thank you, that clears that up then.

Bathroom (orange curtains) / Twins room (Green curtains) windows

Therefore it must have been 'Box Room' where movement was seen, the room to right of Twins room.

[Nigel]

Have you Page 4?

Thanks

[Nigel]

During my in-depth discussions with Jeremy regarding what he thought they were all observing (figure at his parents bedroom window), Jeremy told me on many many occasions that all three of them clearly saw the outline of someone (in silhouetted fashion) stood at one side of his parents bedroom window, as though whoever it was, was looking out from 'that' window, for whatever reason! One of the questions I raised with Jeremy, was whether he and or the police believed that this person had seen them at this time?

Jeremy told me, ' I don't think so'...

I believe Jeremy was talking about movement in Parent's bedroom, but viewed though Box room window with door open.

Please see black line below:

[Nigel]

The jury were deceived because the 'trick of light' alluded to by Bews during his testimony, involved a separate first floor window to that which the silhouetted figure was seen (at Parents bedroom window) by himself, Myalls and Jeremy Bamber. The 'trick of light' explanation  may well have applied to Sheila Caffell's bedroom window (top right), but could not be entertained with regard to the parents bedroom window (top left). This 'trick of light' being caused by moonlight shining through branches of a nearby tree casting shadows against Sheila Caffell's bedroom window, apparent movement there caused by the shift in position of an observer in different positions around the perimeter of the farmhouse!


No such 'trick of light' could occur against the parents bedroom window because there were no nearby trees to create the same illusion!

I am not suggesting Sgt. Chris Bews deliberately tried to deceive, but the bold print below would mislead any Jury on a CRUCIAL point, the BOX ROOM WINDOW.

The window that TWO police officer saw movement, and TWO separate police officers saw a rifle.
FOUR separate Police officers in total!!!! while Jeremy was outside with the Police!.

The room is just feet away from where Sheila's body was found.

It is very very very significant.

--------

When Jeremy and the police arrived at White House Farm they saw movement in the master bedroom. Below is an extract from PS Bews trial transcript:

Rivlin: "Do you remember at some stage early on, this happened that one of you Police Officers said that you thought you could see a shadow and you all jumped?"

Bews: "Yes, that is when we first went to the house with Mr Bamber. We had gone round what I thought was the back. We had seen the kitchen door with the light on. We then went into a field which is at the side of the farm house and went went round to where what is - - I believe the front door is and above that is a window. As we moved away I thought we saw something else move, a shadow, something like that. We looked up and after looking for a couple of minutes I was satisfied that it was a - - perhaps a part in the glass that just shone the light slightly as you looked at it."

Rivlin: "It could have been a trick of the light?"

Bews: "I think it was a trick of the light"

[mike tesko]

Thank you, that clears that up then.

Bathroom (orange curtains) / Twins room (Green curtains) windows

Therefore it must have been 'Box Room' where movement was seen, the room to right of Twins room.

Not the same movement that Jeremy speaks about, since he was at the front of the house with the two police officers when they observed the person standing to the right of his parents bedroom window (as viewed from his vantage point)! Since there was only one window to his parents bedroom, and that window was on the front of the farmhouse, not on the red brick side where the windows of the bathroom Red curtains), the twins room (green curtains) and the box room (the window at which the rifle would later appear in time for WPC Jeapes and PC Brown to see it there at around 7.15am, or thereabouts) are situated!

[mike tesko]

I am not suggesting Sgt. Chris Bews deliberately tried to deceive, but the bold print below would mislead any Jury on a CRUCIAL point, the BOX ROOM WINDOW. I agree that the jury may have been deceived by what Bews and Rivlin spoke about during the trial...

The window that TWO police officer saw movement I disagree since two police officers did not see any movement at the box room window, if they did Jeremy would have been aware of this! The movement as far as any first floor window is concerned was noticed once they went around to the front of the farmhouse, something which PS Bews refers to as the back of the farmhouse, albeit correctly identified by reference to the front door of the farmhouse! I am sure thst Jeremy woul have remembered a sighting or movement at the box room window on the red brick part of the house if there had been such movement contemplated there at that window!, and TWO separate police officers saw a rifle. Two police officers (Julia Jeapes and PC Brown did see a rifle at the box room window, but this sighting occuirred over 3 hours after the sighting of the person on the other side of the house at the parents bedroom window!FOUR separate Police officers in total!!!! Different observations not relating to the same first floor window I am afraid... while Jeremy was outside with the Police Yes, Jeremy outside with the police at the time the person was seen standing at his parents bedroom window at about 4.00am to 4.02am, and over 3 hours later when the rifle appeared at the box room window on the red brick part of the farmhouse...!.
 
The room is just feet away from where Sheila's body was found. It is, but rest assured that no movement was observed at the box room window by the police officers or Jeremy Bamber, the events occurred at different windows at different times...

It is very very very significant. It's always been significant because with a person still being alive inside the farmhouse, in particular, inside the parents bedroom when Jeremy was outside in the company of Bews and Myall it meaans that the prosecutions claaim during trial that Jeremy Bamber was the very last person alive to leave whf that night cannot be true! Since, 'he' clearly cannot have been the last person seen alive inside the farmhouse at all! Additionally, the sudden appearence of the rifle at the box room window for the very first time, placed there by someone at around 7.15am, that morning, could only have been placed there, or put there by someone still alive inside the house...

--------

When Jeremy and the police arrived at White House Farm they saw movement in the master bedroom. Below is an extract from PS Bews trial transcript:

Rivlin: "Do you remember at some stage early on, this happened that one of you Police Officers said that you thought you could see a shadow and you all jumped?"

Bews: "Yes, that is when we first went to the house with Mr Bamber. We had gone round what I thought was the back. He is referring to the front of the farmhouse, here... We had seen the kitchen door with the light on. He was referring to seeing the kitchen door with the light on at what he opriginally percieved to have been the front of the farmhouse, but which by the time of the trial in 1986 he knew was the rear entrance to the farmhouse.. We then went into a field which is at the side of the farm house (The front of the farmhouse)..and went went round to where what is - - I believe the front door is and above that is a window. (this was where Bews deceived the jury, because there were three windows on the first floor above the front door, for example top left the parents bedroom window,
 top middle was the upper landing window, and top right was Sheila Caffells bedroom window).. As we moved away I thought we saw something else move I find this very interesting since the inference is that Bews had in his mind two separate occasions when he knew about some movement or other, one sighting (top left) at the parents bedroom window, and a second sighting or movement at another window! Having seen the latest video account that Bews has given, it is quite obvious to me that the only window he is referring to in his video account it the window top right at the front of the farmhouse, that being Sheila Caffells bedroom window (not the box room window which is situated on the red brick part of the farmhouse...), a shadow, something like that. You would have got a shadow cast onto the glass of the parents bedroom window at the front of the farmhouse, but the same could not be said about Sheila Caffells bedroom window which was prone to have the branches, twigs and leafs casting shadows thereon... We looked up and after looking for a couple of minutes I was satisfied that it was a - - perhaps a part in the glass that just shone the light slightly as you looked at it." He is referring to the glass of Sheila Caffells bedroom window (top right)..

Rivlin: "It could have been a trick of the light?" At which first floor window?

Bews: "I think it was a trick of the light" Not upon the the parents bedroom window (top left)...

[mike tesko]

I believe Jeremy was talking about movement in Parent's bedroom, but viewed though Box room window with door open. No, he wasn't, he was talking about a view at the... front of the farmhouse where the front door to the premises is situated!

Please see black line below: There is no evidence that the internal connecting door between the main bedroom which was the parents bedroom, and the box room, which was situated between the parents bedroom and the bedroom where the twins were both sleeping. The only photographic evidence which exists showing a view of that inter connecting doorway, shows that the door in question is hinged on its right, with the opening edge of that door swinging from left to right! The door itself would have proved to be an obstruction, denying anyone seeing into the parents bedroom via the box room window on the red brick part of the farmhouse!

[Nigel]

Mike

Where did they (Bews and Mayall + Jeremy) arrive at WHF please?

? Front
? Left handside (BOX ROOM , TWINS ROOM side of house)
? Rear (coal shed)
? Right handside

Which ONE of the above four?

Thanks