Dana Ewell

[Caroline]

Very similar Caroline, I wonder if Dana had heard of the WHF murders.

I noticed this "Also called to testify during the trial were Dana's uncles, who recounted how their nephew had become upset when he learned his parents' will was structured" so the wider family were aware that Dana wasn't all too pleased with his family, much like in the Bamber case when people knew Jeremy's true feelings by the smaller things he would say or do.

he may well have Mat, thinking about the alibi, he made sure that he was far enough away not to have been a suspect. However, like Jeremy, too many people were involved and it didn't take much for Ponce (no the best name  ) to realise that the gun he supplied, was the murder weapon.

[lookout]

They prosecuted Jeremy for the crime, so I'd take that as a good sign they believed that it was staged!

Erm,I asked if anyone had heard EP saying that it had been staged. We all know he was prosecuted.

[Caroline]

No sheets of plastic had been used.Bullet casings were accounted for ( were they ever fingerprinted ?)

Perhaps Jeremy should have immediately put up a reward for the killer ? That would have put the cat among the pigeons.

One thing for sure Jeremy never plundered his grannie's bank account and he was her favourite grandson making it a possibility if he'd been that way inclined.

We're reading of two very different people in this Ewell and Bamber. Ewell was a mercenary type of person who had no regard for anyone and who HAD planned the executions. There was certainly nothing orderly about the murders at WHF which were done on a whim.

I think we're reading about two VERY similar people with two VERY similar motives. By the way Lookout, Jeremy wasn't Granny Speakman's favourite, it was Granny Bamber who favoured him (allegedly).

[Jane]

Jane,anyone who was as ill as they were professed to have been wouldn't be worrying about being anywhere,not even at or near WHF,so Sheila was more than aware of where her surroundings would have been and made herself quite clear that that wasn't the place she wanted to be.
Young or older those who've still got their mothers will more often than not go to them at times of upset or illness.Sheila wanted to be as far away as possible from hers,so there clearly was a big problem that didn't look like being resolved.

But the Bambers had requested a visit from the children prior to their holiday with their father. It was the sole reason for Sheila being there and if memory serves me correctly she, too, may have persuaded herself that she/it won't be as bad this time OR told herself that if she tried harder to be what her mother wanted it would all be alright. Anyway, it was only going to be for a few days, wasn't it............

[Caroline]

Erm,I asked if anyone had heard EP saying that it had been staged. We all know he was prosecuted.

Given that none of us were involved with the investigation, we can't answer that but that doesn't mean it wasn't said. In fact, it rings a bell!

[lookout]

But the Bambers had requested a visit from the children prior to their holiday with their father. It was the sole reason for Sheila being there and if memory serves me correctly she, too, may have persuaded herself that she/it won't be as bad this time OR told herself that if she tried harder to be what her mother wanted it would all be alright. Anyway, it was only going to be for a few days, wasn't it............

It was the insistence of June which prompted them to go and see her,as CC had stated,none of them had wanted to go to WHF but June had such a " hold " over them that a refusal would have been out of the question and more than they dared do.
Because,it was said,that none of them particularly relished the thought,CC's excuse was that Sheila would be" supervised " as he'd put it. So it was with reluctance that they all went and it must have been a terrible decision all round.No wonder Sheila hadn't uttered a word,she must have been dreading it.

It comes to something when you read about the boys hanging on to their dad before that final goodbye.They had no say in the matter. It's thoroughly heartbreaking.

[Caroline]

It was the insistence of June which prompted them to go and see her,as CC had stated,none of them had wanted to go to WHF but June had such a " hold " over them that a refusal would have been out of the question and more than they dared do.
Because,it was said,that none of them particularly relished the thought,CC's excuse was that Sheila would be" supervised " as he'd put it. So it was with reluctance that they all went and it must have been a terrible decision all round.No wonder Sheila hadn't uttered a word,she must have been dreading it.

It comes to something when you read about the boys hanging on to their dad before that final goodbye.They had no say in the matter. It's thoroughly heartbreaking.

Kids don't usually have 'a say in the matter'. How many families allow a six year old to make the decisions? and I certainly don't get the impression that June 'summoned' Sheila and the boys to WHF.

[David1819]

I have heard of this before. Big difference is this guy got a friend to execute the killing.

[guest154]

I have heard of this before. Big difference is this guy got a friend to execute the killing.

I wonder if Jeremy would have paid someone to do the killings for him, if he had known anyone and felt comfortable in approaching them. I think he would have done because he certainly didn't kill for pleasure and I doubt he enjoyed doing so, he killed for purely financial reasons.

[maggie]

Kids don't usually have 'a say in the matter'. How many families allow a six year old to make the decisions? and I certainly don't get the impression that June 'summoned' Sheila and the boys to WHF.

I have to agree, Sheila was a grown woman who had lived independently from about 17 years old. 
It was accepted she left home at such a young age and was allowed her freedom and independence which was just a continuation of her time at boarding school in many ways, therefore I find the tale  of the all powerful mother difficult to believe in this context. 

It would have been an opportunity to visit the family home and for the children to spend time with their grandparents while also giving Sheila support with the twins as full time mothering was obviously very difficult for her at this time.

The twins may have found their grandmother overbearing about prayers and religion in general an it seems very strict about eating their food etc. but they also probably had lots of fun running in the fields an generally letting off steam, it can't have been all bad.

[Jane]

It was the insistence of June which prompted them to go and see her,as CC had stated,none of them had wanted to go to WHF but June had such a " hold " over them that a refusal would have been out of the question and more than they dared do.
Because,it was said,that none of them particularly relished the thought,CC's excuse was that Sheila would be" supervised " as he'd put it. So it was with reluctance that they all went and it must have been a terrible decision all round.No wonder Sheila hadn't uttered a word,she must have been dreading it.

It comes to something when you read about the boys hanging on to their dad before that final goodbye.They had no say in the matter. It's thoroughly heartbreaking.

My friend, who is older than the Bambers were, have three grandsons who regularly PLEAD to be allowed a sleep over with Grandma and can't be torn away at going home time. I didn't have grandparents but I did have several "greats" with whom I was required to be on my best behaviour. One of them constantly admonished me to "Sit up straight, darling" although I recall that her husband was jolly. I have a feeling that the Bambers, as grandparents may have been closer to my "greats" than to my friend.

[lookout]

My friend, who is older than the Bambers were, have three grandsons who regularly PLEAD to be allowed a sleep over with Grandma and can't be torn away at going home time. I didn't have grandparents but I did have several "greats" with whom I was required to be on my best behaviour. One of them constantly admonished me to "Sit up straight, darling" although I recall that her husband was jolly. I have a feeling that the Bambers, as grandparents may have been closer to my "greats" than to my friend.

My " greats " were like that too,Jane. I was scared witless of the darkness in the sitting room with its chenille curtains, drapes of cream net curtains, a huge aspidistra plant and an enormous g/father clock whose chimes frightened me to death. No wonder no light came in. An over-powering smell of mothballs too. Then the aunts all in black full length frocks,crisp lace edged aprons and mop-caps,towering over this 6/7 year old child-----me !
I couldn't have stayed in that house if you'd paid me,even as a child I'd have kicked off,I know I would.
My only reason for accepting this mob of arsenic and old lace was that I was with my dad ( his relatives ) and that I'd be going home with him----soon 
That's why I felt for the twins because I hadn't wanted to be where I was at the time.

[maggie]

I wonder if Jeremy would have paid someone to do the killings for him, if he had known anyone and felt comfortable in approaching them. I think he would have done because he certainly didn't kill for pleasure and I doubt he enjoyed doing so, he killed for purely financial reasons.

I cannot imagine for one moment that JB could have killed his whole family including his two 6 year old nephews unless he had some kind of disorder or psychosis. 

Killing all those people the way they were killed was so vile and so disturbing no one in their right mind could get through it, go home and turn up with the police a few hours later without a massive reaction.  He was calm that was one of the things noticed about him,  which seemed suspicious to some police at the time.
Being greedy is one thing but executing your family is a whole different ball game.

[lookout]

I cannot imagine for one moment that JB could have killed his whole family including his two 6 year old nephews unless he had some kind of disorder or psychosis. 

Killing all those people the way they were killed was so vile and so disturbing no one in their right mind could get through it, go home and turn up with the police a few hours later without a massive reaction.  He was calm that was one of the things noticed about him,  which seemed suspicious to some police at the time.
Being greedy is one thing but executing your family is a whole different ball game.

Maggie,statistics say that 1 in 10 prisoners have mental health issues,and those who have will be in places like Broadmoor and Ashworth.
It's been proven that Jeremy is neither psychotic nor a psychopath,as in 30 years of incarceration,nothing has shown itself that he's got either of these traits.

He may have been calm at one point because he was NOT expecting the news which followed during the course of the morning. If he'd been play-acting,he'd have been putting on a huge act of pathos and hidden expectation,but as it was it would have been the very last thing he'd have expected. Thinking of what had happened in the past with Sheila and her " do's " he probably fully expected a good outcome rather than the one that there was. He was in disbelief and had asked to speak to his dad which was so very sad. 

[guest154]

I cannot imagine for one moment that JB could have killed his whole family including his two 6 year old nephews unless he had some kind of disorder or psychosis. 

Killing all those people the way they were killed was so vile and so disturbing no one in their right mind could get through it, go home and turn up with the police a few hours later without a massive reaction.  He was calm that was one of the things noticed about him,  which seemed suspicious to some police at the time.
Being greedy is one thing but executing your family is a whole different ball game.

I didn't say he doesn't have a disorder or some form of psychosis, I believe him to be a bullet point psychopath.
But he didn't kill for a blood sport, didn't do it for the thrill, he saw his family as an inconvenience - in the way of the money that should be his and the lifestyle he saw himself as enjoying.

Maggie,statistics say that 1 in 10 prisoners have mental health issues,and those who have will be in places like Broadmoor and Ashworth.
It's been proven that Jeremy is neither psychotic nor a psychopath,as in 30 years of incarceration,nothing has shown itself that he's got either of these traits.

No it hasn't!  The OS posted something and worded it carefully to make it sound like he has been tested for psychopathy every year - and that's tricked you into believing it.