Ending the SJ/1 nonsense once and for all

[Jane]

In actual fact,there's a simple enough explanation for the phone to have been hidden under a pile of magazines. Farmhouses by their very nature are places of work,particularly living/dining areas,pantries and other rooms off the main kitchen area.
Because people were in and out,coming and going,it would have been the hardest place to have kept tidy and free from disruption so stuff would be moved from one chair to another and so on. More than likely after the telephone engineer had gone,arrangements of where to put what phone where,began as they were one phone down which was being repaired.
Maybe mid-job it had been forgotten so clothes/mags/newspapers were piled on the chair,with the phone forgotten about under an array of items which had been moved from one place to another.
Noticeably,there were a couple of newspapers on the breakfast table whicvh could have originated from the heap on the chair in which the phone lay hidden.
No doubt nobody knew where the damn thing was so therefore took the one from the bedroom to use in the kitchen.
It was Mrs Boutell who'd called them " musical phones " because she never knew where they'd be from one week to another,so it's NO mystery that the phone was missing. When I first saw a pic of the kitchen/butlers pantry,I remember remarking that a cat wouldn't find its kittens in that mess,so it's no wonder nobody couldn't find anything.

It's just that it suits the scenario of the conviction that most say Jeremy hid it,that's all. There's nothing sinister attached to its " disappearance ". It's all in your minds. Keep taking the tablets.

Certainly, in and of itself, it offers an explanation, but can't be taken in isolation. Taking other variables into consideration suggests that it isn't the case.

[maggie]

Certainly, in and of itself, it offers an explanation, but can't be taken in isolation. Taking other variables into consideration suggests that it isn't the case.

It could be the case that the phone was slimply mislaid, we are told this kind of thing happened a lot by J Boutell and the bedroom phone was often used in the kitchen, there is a possibility the phone wasn't hidden but mislaid imo

[lookout]

Certainly, in and of itself, it offers an explanation, but can't be taken in isolation. Taking other variables into consideration suggests that it isn't the case.

It does depend on the context of these " variables ".If they fit a conviction,then it's bingo for EP,but I'm in no way happy about it at all.

[Jane]

It does depend on the context of these " variables ".If they fit a conviction,then it's bingo for EP,but I'm in no way happy about it at all.

Lookout, are you saying that none of the variables fit ANY of the evidence OR are you saying, that in YOUR opinion, they don't?

[scipio_usmc]

You seem to forget that there were also others inside the farmhouse who would have been quite capable of hiding the phone.Why blame Jeremy ? Talk about giving a dog a bad name,everyone had him hung drawn and quartered as soon as this tragedy occurred. Nobody bothered to investigate any further,and to my mind it's NOT a case of " beyond reasonable doubt " at all.There are too many anomalies and unanswered questions.It's a farce.
I'm not the one who's blind or blinkered !!

Other people had no reason to unplug and hide a perfectly working phone and to replace it with the bedroom phone.

Jeremy is clearly the one who did such not only because he had motive but is evidenced by him KNOWING about the replacement and FALSELY claiming the replacement occurred because the phone broken and then after it was found FALSELY claiming it was just a spare phone.

The only reason he would lie is if he was the one who unplugged the perfectly working phone and hid it. 

[scipio_usmc]

It could be the case that the phone was slimply mislaid, we are told this kind of thing happened a lot by J Boutell and the bedroom phone was often used in the kitchen, there is a possibility the phone wasn't hidden but mislaid imo

Your opinion like Lookouts is grounded in pure bias.  You profess your objectivity but never display any it is simply lip service.

It is not plausible for the phone to have been unplugged, the cord wound around it and then buried under magazines by accident.  The  phone was deliberately unplugged and replaced with the bedroom phone.  Anytime June or Nevill had a problem with a phone they had a repair person come to replace same or repair them.  They had the cordless phone and phone from the upper office replaced because they had static reception issues.  The phone was replaced by Jeremy and that is how:

1) Jeremy knew about it

2) Why the phone company was not contacted to come repair/replace it

If Jeremy didn't hide it and simply left it there the phone company would have been contacted and would have come and said the phone was fine and plugged it back in.  The others might have checked it themselves before even calling the phone company if they simply found it sitting.

Jeremy said the phone was broken and implied it had been taken away which he was able to do since it was hidden.

When it was found he lied and denied it was the missing kitchen phone,, why would he lie unless he was the one who hid it and didn't want anyone to realize he lied about it being broken?

This is one of those issues where Jeremy supporters are anything but objective and instead go out of their way trying to make excuses for Jeremy and don't even realize they are doing it because it is so second nature to just make such excuses.

[maggie]

Your opinion like Lookouts is grounded in pure bias.  You profess your objectivity but never display any it is simply lip service.

It is not plausible for the phone to have been unplugged, the cord wound around it and then buried under magazines by accident.  The  phone was deliberately unplugged and replaced with the bedroom phone.  Anytime June or Nevill had a problem with a phone they had a repair person come to replace same or repair them.  They had the cordless phone and phone from the upper office replaced because they had static reception issues.  The phone was replaced by Jeremy and that is how:

1) Jeremy knew about it

2) Why the phone company was not contacted to come repair/replace it

If Jeremy didn't hide it and simply left it there the phone company would have been contacted and would have come and said the phone was fine and plugged it back in.  The others might have checked it themselves before even calling the phone company if they simply found it sitting.

Jeremy said the phone was broken and implied it had been taken away which he was able to do since it was hidden.

When it was found he lied and denied it was the missing kitchen phone,, why would he lie unless he was the one who hid it and didn't want anyone to realize he lied about it being broken?

This is one of those issues where Jeremy supporters are anything but objective and instead go out of their way trying to make excuses for Jeremy and don't even realize they are doing it because it is so second nature to just make such excuses.

No it's not scipio, I use words like 'possible' , May, possibility that does not show bias it shows an open mind. I do not just stick rigidly to either side, I am UNSURE.

[scipio_usmc]

In actual fact,there's a simple enough explanation for the phone to have been hidden under a pile of magazines. Farmhouses by their very nature are places of work,particularly living/dining areas,pantries and other rooms off the main kitchen area.
Because people were in and out,coming and going,it would have been the hardest place to have kept tidy and free from disruption so stuff would be moved from one chair to another and so on. More than likely after the telephone engineer had gone,arrangements of where to put what phone where,began as they were one phone down which was being repaired.
Maybe mid-job it had been forgotten so clothes/mags/newspapers were piled on the chair,with the phone forgotten about under an array of items which had been moved from one place to another.
Noticeably,there were a couple of newspapers on the breakfast table whicvh could have originated from the heap on the chair in which the phone lay hidden.
No doubt nobody knew where the damn thing was so therefore took the one from the bedroom to use in the kitchen.
It was Mrs Boutell who'd called them " musical phones " because she never knew where they'd be from one week to another,so it's NO mystery that the phone was missing. When I first saw a pic of the kitchen/butlers pantry,I remember remarking that a cat wouldn't find its kittens in that mess,so it's no wonder nobody couldn't find anything.

It's just that it suits the scenario of the conviction that most say Jeremy hid it,that's all. There's nothing sinister attached to its " disappearance ". It's all in your minds. Keep taking the tablets.

Once again you ignore the facts to just make up excusable. 

The only phone they were down was the cordless phone which they decided to get rid of.  They had Pike take that phone away. The BT operator would bring phones with him and replace them when he was there.  He did so only with the upstairs phones he found the kitchen phone (which was later hidden under magazines) to be in perfect working order.  No phone was moved to the kitchen because it had been in perfect working order the upstairs phones are the ones that were damaged.  The only phone downstairs that had a problem was the cordless phone that they got rid of.

There was zero reason for anyone to unplug the perfectly working kitchen phone, to wrap the cord around it, leave it on the counter so that it could end up buried by others and to replace it with the bedroom phone. The phone was not broken and if June or Nevill had found that it was broken and decided to replace it with the bedroom phone then they would have called the phone company to have them replace it but they did not do so.  They called the phone company two times in June and July but not because of the kitchen phone.  They called the person they bought the cordless phone from multiple times to fix the cordless phone but didn't call anyone about the kitchen phone.

The only reason to unplug the kitchen phone, wrap the cord around it and then replace it with the bedroom phone would be in order to remove the bedroom phone from the bedroom so it was not available for use in the bedroom.  The person who did this could not simply leave the phone out in plain view as someone would test it or call the phone company to test it so hid it.  Until it was found the phone company could not be called to come fix it.  The only reason to make sure there was no phone in the bedroom would be so the killer could be sure that police would not be summoned if the parents woke up upon hearing the killer on the ground level or one tried using the phone as the other were being shot. The only person with a motive to remove the phone was the killer.

There is considerable evidence that the killer was Jeremy.  There is also direct evidence that Jeremy moved the phone beyond simply he must have since he was the killer.  Jeremy lied about why it was moved he claimed it was broken and thus replaced with the bedroom phone.  When it was found and determined to be in working order he further lied and claimed it was simply an extra phone not the missing kitchen phone. He would not have told these lies unless he were the one who moved and hid it.   

 

[lookout]

Lookout, are you saying that none of the variables fit ANY of the evidence OR are you saying, that in YOUR opinion, they don't?

In my opinion,they don't. They're too orchestrated.

[scipio_usmc]

No it's not scipio, I use words like 'possible' , May, possibility that does not show bias it shows an open mind. I do not just stick rigidly to either side, I am UNSURE.

The following scenario which comes from Jeremy supporters has a lot of maybes but still is lacking in plausibility and thus objectivity:

Maybe the phone really did break but then mysteriously fixed itself as it sat unplugged in the kitchen and June and Nevill never got around to calling the phone company and the phone got buried naturally..

Maybe June decided to replace the bedroom phone with the dial phone because she liked it better and decided to forego a bedroom phone instead of placing the digital kitchen phone in the bedroom and the unused digital phone got buried naturally.

Maybe Sheila planned the murders days in advance and removed the bedroom phone early Monday in anticipation of such and hid it. 

In the meantime all except one of these maybes fail to account for Jeremy's lie about the phone being broken (except the maybe which posits it was broken but mysteriously fixed itself) and all fail to account for Jeremy's lie about it being simply a spare phone when it was found.

These maybes are being invented simply to try to find ways to protect Jeremy not being created for objective reasons.

[Jane]

In my opinion,they don't. They're too orchestrated.

Well, surely, in order to be orchestrated, they have to fit. That you think they're TOO orchestrated is entirely different.

[lookout]

Anyone with the knowhow and wherewithall ( EP ) can make anything fit a certain scenario " when all else fails ".

[Jane]

Anyone with the knowhow and wherewithall ( EP ) can make anything fit a certain scenario " when all else fails ".

Using the above as evidence of malpractice we could release all the current residents of our prisons.

[Caroline]

In actual fact,there's a simple enough explanation for the phone to have been hidden under a pile of magazines. Farmhouses by their very nature are places of work,particularly living/dining areas,pantries and other rooms off the main kitchen area.
Because people were in and out,coming and going,it would have been the hardest place to have kept tidy and free from disruption so stuff would be moved from one chair to another and so on. More than likely after the telephone engineer had gone,arrangements of where to put what phone where,began as they were one phone down which was being repaired.
Maybe mid-job it had been forgotten so clothes/mags/newspapers were piled on the chair,with the phone forgotten about under an array of items which had been moved from one place to another.
Noticeably,there were a couple of newspapers on the breakfast table whicvh could have originated from the heap on the chair in which the phone lay hidden.
No doubt nobody knew where the damn thing was so therefore took the one from the bedroom to use in the kitchen.
It was Mrs Boutell who'd called them " musical phones " because she never knew where they'd be from one week to another,so it's NO mystery that the phone was missing. When I first saw a pic of the kitchen/butlers pantry,I remember remarking that a cat wouldn't find its kittens in that mess,so it's no wonder nobody couldn't find anything.

It's just that it suits the scenario of the conviction that most say Jeremy hid it,that's all. There's nothing sinister attached to its " disappearance ". It's all in your minds. Keep taking the tablets.

But the phone wasn't just on a chair with stuff piled on it, it was 'wedged' between papers and magazines!!

[Jane]

But the phone wasn't just on a chair with stuff piled on it, it was 'wedged' between papers and magazines!!

Haven't we been round this loop before, Caroline?