Grief

[Jane]

Did you read what Jackie posted?  Jackie sees to be suggested he had too much grief to return to WHF and this is meant to excuse why he didn't go back to work there.  It wa sjust too traumatic to go back and be reminded of the loss. 

No I don't buy that he was happy and out partying and that it did not hit him yet and that simultanoeusly he was too traumatzed to go back to work at WHF.

He stopped working completely and just partied and lived it up.  He didn't go party to take his mind off things he was busy ransacking Sheila's place for anything he could sell and likewise went to WHF for the same purposes.  If he was so traumatized and didn't want to think about it he would not have gone to such locations for money and ites to sell. 

Not only did he have no surivor guilt, he didn't once express any sorrow or fault for leaving the gun out.  Obviously that was because he didn't leave it out and Sheial didn't use it he used it so he could live the good life and not have to work anymore.

Scipio, for all I know, you may be an excellent lawyer - you certainly tell us you are- but you'd make a bloody poor counsellor. Each to their own, I guess. Leaving Jeremy out of it, you exhibit little understanding of human behaviour that can't be found in a book of rules.

I haven't said he DID but it's POSSIBLE, guilty or innocent, that he needed to block out what had happened. Guilt CAN traumatize as much as grief.

I imagine that this was a family for whom money was highly important so accruing it would have been something Jeremy had been bought up with. It may have fallen within what he saw as being "normal."

I THINK Jeremy is guilty. I THINK some of the points you make are valid. I appreciate that in  your world there are rules which are fixed. In MY world, the lines are blurred. You have the right to your opinion but when you tell me what ANY person WOULD/WOULDN'T do under certain  circumstances the best I can say is whilst, because of the lack of understanding you exhibit, you MAY be right, it's MORE probable, in my opinion, that you DON'T know what you're talking about.

[guest154]

bought up with. It may have fallen within what he saw as being "normal."

I THINK Jeremy is guilty.

What are some of the points that have made you change your stance, April, if I may ask?

[scipio_usmc]

it seems that basil cock appointed peter eaton as the farm manager - and none of the other relatives seemed to take a breath before hunting Jeremy down - no time for grief there either.

He did it just because he wanted to live the good life and not work?

Or be in jail for the rest of his life.

You are only talking about a period of a few weeks and the ever maligned Julie certainly had no second thoughts about joining in either - even though she knew he had done it.

Indeed Cock appointed Eaton as Jeremy did not care and Jeremy never returned to work in his regular position.  Jeremy told them that he was too upset to return to WHF ever though he had no problem returning to retrieve goods. 

WHo else stopped workin gafter this?  Did Colin stop working?  Did the extended fmaily stop working?  Nope just Jeremy who didn't want to do the work in the first place and planned to sell eveyrthing os he could live in the city.

[nugnug]

its not just work its going to work in the house where you yoused to see your recently decesed mum and dad

would you want to going into work and look at the empty chair your dad yoused to sit in.

[susan]

Nugnug many men would be proud to sit in their Father's chair and wear their Father's watch etc and a female would be proud of wearing her Mothers rings etc and use her household possessions when you love somebody you cherish their very being.

[nugnug]

from personal experience i know empty chairs are one of the most upsetting thing about a bereavement.

[susan]

nugnug I am not disputing other people's feelings but Jeremy Bamber had no grief in removing valuables from WHF to sell the only thing that appeared to affect him was work.  Most sons would have wanted to make their Father proud and carry on the business and make a great success of it and not be upset by an empty chair it was his place to sit in it.

[Jane]

What are some of the points that have made you change your stance, April, if I may ask?

 Mat, I spend a lot of time playing devil's advocate in disagreements/enabling people to reach decisions. I'd done the same thing regarding Jeremy when it began to dawn on me that there was little balance. It had become one sided and I was starting to hear myself making excuses. I guess it could be said that because of the adoption factor, I was too emotionally involved. Of course, the same could be said for Sheila, but she could be forgiven. It may have been the realization that Sheila was unlikely to have been able to take her own life. It certainly had to do with Caroline's experience with him re the wallet. I'm sorry if this sounds horribly jumbled but for me there is still more grey area about the case than black and white......................but I don't have the benefit of Scipio's law books

[susan]

April I have a grey area in that I think Jeremy was involved but maybe with another but he was the main instigator.  For him to know the exact amount in the wallet suggests to me he counted it before he left the farm after murdering his family. Also as pointed out to me by Harters the shooting of the rabbits I always accepted that until I gave it some thought and realised he had no intention of shooting rabbits as they would not be close to the farm house he wanted to impress on EP that he left a loaded rifle so easy for poor Sheila to pick up.

[nugnug]

nugnug I am not disputing other people's feelings but Jeremy Bamber had no grief in removing valuables from WHF to sell the only thing that appeared to affect him was work.  Most sons would have wanted to make their Father proud and carry on the business and make a great success of it and not be upset by an empty chair it was his place to sit in it.

im sorry susan im not trying to have  go at you but that's genrlasing far to much

theres not just the bereavement theirs also the shock i mean its not as if his parents just passed away.

theres also the guilt as well thinking of what you could of done to prevent it.

[Alias]

Indeed Cock appointed Eaton as Jeremy did not care and Jeremy never returned to work in his regular position.  Jeremy told them that he was too upset to return to WHF ever though he had no problem returning to retrieve goods. 

WHo else stopped workin gafter this?  Did Colin stop working?  Did the extended fmaily stop working?  Nope just Jeremy who didn't want to do the work in the first place and planned to sell eveyrthing os he could live in the city.

I am not sure Colin worked in the period of time after the murders. He was walking around in a haze, not sure he could have worked at all.

[susan]

nugnug please don't apologise I did not mean to generalise that was very wrong of me and I am sorry for doing this I am talking about Jeremy because this is how I feel I am sure the experience you suffered affected you deeply for which I am sorry I too have been there and dealt with it so differently than Jeremy Bamber I would think nobody else on the forum lost their entire in such an horrendous way.

[Jane]

April I have a grey area in that I think Jeremy was involved but maybe with another but he was the main instigator.  For him to know the exact amount in the wallet suggests to me he counted it before he left the farm after murdering his family. Also as pointed out to me by Harters the shooting of the rabbits I always accepted that until I gave it some thought and realised he had no intention of shooting rabbits as they would not be close to the farm house he wanted to impress on EP that he left a loaded rifle so easy for poor Sheila to pick up.

Susan, that's an excellent point that Harters raised -sadly I missed it- unless the bunnies lived in the barns or outhouses they'd be highly unlikely to be running around in the farmyard and I don't think the fields were visible from the house.

[No-Bits]

Susan, that's an excellent point that Harters raised -sadly I missed it- unless the bunnies lived in the barns or outhouses they'd be highly unlikely to be running around in the farmyard and I don't think the fields were visible from the house.

Oh just for you April:

That's a fair point.

It seems rather far fetched to me. To add to the apparent rush that he was in, there would be little point is using the rifle without the sound moderator attached as they would scatter after the first shot; the scope was not attached so he wouldn't have been particularly accurate; it was relatively late at night and the gunshots would have been a nuisance to the residents of WHF (twins were in bed) and the nearby cottages; there are not any arable fields that close to where the rabbits were supposedly spotted so what was the urgency.

[JackiePreece]

April I have 2 horses to feed and look after every morning at 6.30 am when I get down to the farm there are rabbits everywhere
They run around right next to where I am grooming the horses
I am going to take some photos tomorrow if I remember

They don't bat an eyelid at me it's proper water ship down they are everywhere