Author Topic: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer  (Read 8860 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2011, 10:10:PM »
If Ralph and June Bambers blood mixed together intimately, it would be possible that the four blood group activities, A, EAP BA, AK1 and HP 2-1, found in the analysis of the loose flake, could have opriginated from them both...

Correct - that was acknowledged at the trial, although it was considered a "remote" possibility at the time.
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When "O" type blood mixes intimately with "A" type blood, it always produces an "A" type result, so a mixture of June and Ralph's blood types, would mask Ralph's "O" type blood, in the "A" type result obtained...
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 10:12:PM by mike tesko »
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2011, 10:12:PM »
If Ralph and June Bambers blood mixed together intimately, it would be possible that the four blood group activities, A, EAP BA, AK1 and HP 2-1, found in the analysis of the loose flake, could have opriginated from them both...

Have JB's team found blood experts who have said that is more likely than unlikely?
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Yes, they found an expert...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2011, 10:12:PM »
Blood group activity, A, EAP BA, AK1 and HP 2-1, has been exclusively linked or associated to or with Sheila Caffell, on the basis that she was the only victim with these combination of four blood group activities found,  once her blood was analyzed...

June and Ralph Bamber, only had three of these four blood groups in the make up of their blood

They had four.

Nevill - O, PGM 1+, BAP BA AK1, Hp2-1
June - A, PGM 1+, EAP BA, AK2-1, Hp2-1
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PGM test performed on flake - negative

Yes, but they still had four groups in common with the sample between them.

So if PGM was missing, does that mean it was not their blood?

Hartley

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Re: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2011, 10:13:PM »
Could animal blood have been present, not sure I can think of a legitimate reason for an animal to be shot at point blank range on the farm.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 10:18:PM by Hartley »

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2011, 10:14:PM »
Sticking point, was that Ralph had AK1 type blood, and June Bamber had AK2-1 blood type, and no blood type AK2-1, was obtained from examination of blood flake...

Prosecution blood expert, John Hayward, testified to the effect that he would have expected to find a presence of June Bambers AK2-1 type blood in the results obtained from the flake, if the blood had been an intimate mixture of the parents blood types, and that an absence of blood type AK2-1, drove him to conclude that the blood results obtained from the examination of the flake was exclusive to Sheila...
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 10:18:PM by mike tesko »
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Offline Kaldin

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Re: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2011, 10:15:PM »
Sticking point, was that Ralph had AK1 type blood, and June Bamber had AK2-1 blood type, and no blood type AK2-1, was obtained from examination of blood flake...

But the appeal judges in 2002 accepted that June's DNA was in the silencer. Can't remember if that DNA was from blood though.

Sparkfilms

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Re: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2011, 10:15:PM »
Rats were shot at point blank range.

Offline mb1

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Re: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2011, 10:16:PM »
If Ralph and June Bambers blood mixed together intimately, it would be possible that the four blood group activities, A, EAP BA, AK1 and HP 2-1, found in the analysis of the loose flake, could have opriginated from them both...

Have JB's team found blood experts who have said that is more likely than unlikely?
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Yes, they found an expert...

/quote]

They need plural, and big names. Trust me.


Offline mb1

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Re: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2011, 10:18:PM »
Blood group activity, A, EAP BA, AK1 and HP 2-1, has been exclusively linked or associated to or with Sheila Caffell, on the basis that she was the only victim with these combination of four blood group activities found,  once her blood was analyzed...

June and Ralph Bamber, only had three of these four blood groups in the make up of their blood

They had four.

Nevill - O, PGM 1+, BAP BA AK1, Hp2-1
June - A, PGM 1+, EAP BA, AK2-1, Hp2-1
----------------------------

PGM test performed on flake - negative

Yes, but they still had four groups in common with the sample between them.

So if PGM was missing, does that mean it was not their blood?

Blood components degrade at different rates. Need to check PGM.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2011, 10:20:PM »
Sticking point, was that Ralph had AK1 type blood, and June Bamber had AK2-1 blood type, and no blood type AK2-1, was obtained from examination of blood flake...

But the appeal judges in 2002 accepted that June's DNA was in the silencer. Can't remember if that DNA was from blood though.
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It was not a perfect match, but the appellate court was prepared to accept that June Bambers DNA was found or present inside the silencer which was examined for DNA, as part of the 2002 appeal (I am not sure if this concession helped Jeremy's cause or hindered it)...
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 10:21:PM by mike tesko »
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2011, 10:23:PM »
Some of Sheila Caffells DNA was found embedded into the inverted screw thread on the bottom end of the silencer (the end which screws onto the thread on the end of the guns barrel)...
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Offline Kaldin

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Re: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2011, 10:26:PM »
Some of Sheila Caffells DNA was found embedded into the inverted screw thread on the bottom end of the silencer (the end which screws onto the thread on the end of the guns barrel)...

I thought it was said it could have been her DNA - it wasn't certain.

Anyway, are you now suggesting that she was shot with the silencer on?

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2011, 10:27:PM »
How could Sheila's blood (in the form of the flake) have got into the silencer at the top end, and retain its qualities, without mixing with the other blood around it on other baffle plates, and how did Sheila Caffells DNA manage to get all the way inside the silencer onto the internal thread at the opposite end of the silencer, with a void in between baffles three and 17, with no blood belonging to her, or other DNA belonging to her, found anywhere else inside that silencer?

It doesn't make sense...

In my opinion...
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 10:30:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2011, 10:33:PM »
Loose flake found trapped between baffle plates one and two, could have got into the silencer on some unrelated occasion, other than at the time Sheila was shot and killed in the bedroom...

Not to be overlooked, is the fact that on 29th August 1985, one day before the silencer (DB/1) was submitted to Huntingdon Lab' (30th August 1985) Detective Inspector Cook (SOC) dismantled the same silencer, and exposed its internal baffle plates to the possibility of innocent or accidental contamination, by laying out the removed baffle plates on the same worktop that he had also placed the bloodstained Bamber rifle, before rebuilding the silencer - placing the removed baffle plates back into the tubing and once it had been rebuilt, Cook did the unthinkable, he physically screwed the rebuilt silencer back onto the screw thread on the end of the bloodstained rifle, further exposing the silencer to the possibility of innocent or accidental contamination...

The court was never told about Cooks (SOC) experiments, that he performed with the silencer, and the bloodstained Bamber rifle on 29th August 1985 - but Cook took a series of photographs depicting his examination and experiments performed on that date, which he sent to the ballistic expert at the lab' along with the rifle and silencer he submitted there, on 30th August 1985...

By virtue of these activities - the ballistic expert knew that Cook had dismantled the silencer and rebuilt it, and that he had screwed the rebuilt unit onto the barrel of the bloodstained rifle before sending both to the Lab' on 30th August 1985, but Fletcher ignored for the possibility that some form of innocent or accidental contamination could have taken place, but instead choose to introduce his general theory of BACKSPATTER to account for the presence of the flake of blood inside the silencer....

When all along he knew of the possibility that the flake could have got into the silencer at the time Cook dismantled and rebuilt the silencer on 29th August 1985...

As a result court which tried Bamber was deceived into accepting the theory of Fletcher to account for how Sheila's blood group type, got into the silencer at the time she was shot in the bedroom - when all along this explanation may have been inaccurate and very misleading...

« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 10:49:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Blood Evidence found in the Silencer
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2011, 10:50:PM »
Why didn't Cook (SOC) find crucial flake of loose blood trapped between baffle plates one and two when he dismantled it on 29th August 1985?

In my opinion, loose flake got into silencer once Cook (SOC) dismantled baffle plates from inside silencer and exposed them to the possibility of contamination of picking up a small flake of dried blood which became detached from the blood stained Bamber rifle, that was photographed on Sheila's body at the scene on 7th August 1985...


« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 10:53:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...