Grief

[maggie]

The point was having never suffered from grief Jeremy was clueless how to act. Didn't Colin Caffell remark that he suspected that Jeremy was trying to imitate him?

How do you know he had never suffered from grief.  He and his girlfriend had experienced miscarriages.  Your'e just making assumptions and quoting someone elses opinion.

[-Harters-]

In my opinion it is quite an ugly building.

Subjective I suppose, personally I think it's quite a fine building, despite its history.

the extensions yes an eyesore , quite sure the cottages are ok, the house in its early years of completion may well have looked fine .

Again I think the beauty may well be in the eye of the beholder, yes the building is listed, the parts which you refer to as extensions is actually the original 18th Century farmhouse, the formal front is the extension.

The building was actually only listed in February 1987, the National Heritage listing reads as follows:

TOLLESHUNT D'ARCY PAGES LANE TL 91 SW(west side) 3/78White House Farmhouse GVII

TOLLESHUNT D'ARCY PAGES LANE TL 91 SW (west side) 3/78 White House Farmhouse GV II House. Late C18 and early C19. Red and gault brick in Flemish bond, roofed with slate. C18 range of red brick aligned N-S with 2 axial stacks. Early C19 crosswing of gault brick at S end, forming entrance front, with internal stacks at each side. C19 single-storey extension at N end. 2 storeys. Ground floor, 2 early C19 sashes of 16 lights, first floor, 2 similar sashes and one of 12 lights, all with flat brick arches. Central C20 half-glazed door in simple flat-roofed porch with 2 columns and 3 stone steps. Low-pitched hipped roof. Reported to have date 1820 inscribed on beam in roof. White House is shown on Chapman and Andre's map of 1777, then on another site approx. 400 metres to the west. Both were built by a charity established in 1626 by Henry Smith, salter and alderman of London, to which the farm still belongs at the time of survey, May 1985 (P. Morant, The History and Antiquities of Essex, 1768, I, 399).

[-Harters-]

Well imo, having just lost 5 members of my family, brutally, i would have been devastated. I couldnt have eaten anything that day either, Colin did say that Jeremy seemed to copying Colin and observing to see how he was reacting.
Bamber was too quick to deal with the financial issues too, getting some items valued ready to be flogged off. trying to sell sheilas pictures. It goes on and on....

Andrea, with respect, you cannot possibly know how you would behave in a situation like that.

However, Andi is almost certainly the most qualified to give her opinion regarding how she may or may not act in any given situation, is she not?

Of course that is on the assumption IMO stands for "In my opinion" and not "Impossibly massive ostriches". 

[grahameb]

They realised it was a bigger story, bamber trying to flog the pictures, than the pictures themselves. Classic Fleet street roll over story.

Yes that is what I was trying to demonstrate Vic. Also they were the wrong people to try and sell to as they were a Bamber guilty paper.

[maggie]

However, Andi is almost certainly the most qualified to give her opinion regarding how she may or may not act in any given situation, is she not?

Of course that is on the assumption IMO stands for "In my opinion" and not "Impossibly massive ostriches". 

Hartley, I'm saying that NONE of us know how we would react in such a situation.  We all assume we would have control over the way we would behave but in reality we don't, if we did post traumatic shock would not cause people to react in all sorts of ways which are totally out of character.   

[grahameb]

And why would sheila change her clothes if she intended to kill herself.

I think that is one of the characteristics of suicide victims Andrea? My father inlaw was in the Thames River police and he would often remark that those he pulled out of the river after their suicide would often be imaculately dressed and clean.

[grahameb]

I disagree, had she been holding her wound before the 2nd shot the blood would have been on the front of her nightie, after releasing her hand. No blood was found on her hands either.

I think on her palms there was. Also she could have wiped her hand on her night dress thus leaving the bloodstain there?

[-Harters-]

I think on her palms there was. Also she could have wiped her hand on her night dress thus leaving the bloodstain there?

Nope, or at least not according to Vanezis, he also said the blood on her night dress which is incorrectly being described as a hand print, was transferred from Sheilas wrist.

[lookout]

Funny how people take offence when this term is used, but only when it suits. 

Well it's plain to see that you like the term,Hartley.! Except that I didn't put emphasis on it..

[grahameb]

How do you know he had never suffered from grief.  He and his girlfriend had experienced miscarriages.  Your'e just making assumptions and quoting someone elses opinion.

I don't think we will get anywhere by critisising Jeremy's actions over the days following the murders and during the funeral. Grief is such a tricky subject to handle and people go through a whole range of feelings, from sorrow to hate. From insanity to indifference. My friend was the manager of the Co-Op funeral service in Broomfield Road in Chelmsford and she was an expert in counselling people through grief. She said there are many contradictory feelings that take over a person's personality. It is impossible to guage what they might do?

So in my humble opinion in "not" being an expert in these matters, I feel that it is very unfair of us to judge someone who has just lost a whole family in such tragic and horific circumstances. And the police questioned Jeremy at his most vulnerable time. On the one hand they were saying that he was not behaving like a grieving person and on the other hand they were questioning him as to why he wasn't answering their questions in an erudite fashion?

[maggie]

However, Andi is almost certainly the most qualified to give her opinion regarding how she may or may not act in any given situation, is she not?
Of course that is on the assumption IMO stands for "In my opinion" and not "Impossibly massive ostriches". 

That was a bit rude Hartley, I'm sure An drea can answer for herself.

[maggie]

I don't think we will get anywhere by critisising Jeremy's actions over the days following the murders and during the funeral. Grief is such a tricky subject to handle and people go through a whole range of feelings, from sorrow to hate. From insanity to indifference. My friend was the manager of the Co-Op funeral service in Broomfield Road in Chelmsford and she was an expert in counselling people through grief. She said there are many contradictory feelings that take over a person's personality. It is impossible to guage what they might do?

So in my humble opinion in "not" being an expert in these matters, I feel that it is very unfair of us to judge someone who has just lost a whole family in such tragic and horific circumstances. And the police questioned Jeremy at his most vulnerable time. On the one hand they were saying that he was not behaving like a frieving person and on the other hand they were questioning him as to why he wasn't answering their questions in an erudite fashion?

Thank you Grahame, well put.

[-Harters-]

Hartley, I'm saying that NONE of us know how we would react in such a situation.  We all assume we would have control over the way we would behave but in reality we don't, if we did post traumatic shock would not cause people to react in all sorts of ways which are totally out of character.

I agree, but people can give their opinion (particularly if it is labelled as such), just as you have yourself on other subjects.

[-Harters-]

That was a bit rude Hartley, I'm sure An drea can answer for herself.

It wasn't intended to be rude, I apologise if you took it as such. 

[boheme]

They listened, but didnt buy the photos.

Of course they did'nt buy them - who would be interested in buying a paper to see nude photos of someone who was murdered ? They probably were more interested in getting a story from JB....