Author Topic: THE SILENCER SAGA  (Read 67912 times)

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Offline Roch

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2021, 09:03:AM »
Bamber is an inheritance killer.

It was more than land. Several properties, land, a caravan business. The farm business.

My answer is 'yes'.

One of the recent podcasts mentioned what was to be left to the wider relatives. It was paltry. The relatives' judgement was impaired by the spectre of material and financial loss. Jeremy may have added fuel to the fire, with his flippant remarks etc.

Offline David1819

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2021, 09:13:AM »
Bamber is an inheritance killer.

It was more than land. Several properties, land, a caravan business. The farm business.

My answer is 'yes'.

The relatives got exactly the same as what you believe Jeremy murdered five people for. When you factor in the fact they helped themselves to Speakman's estate also, they got even more!
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 09:14:AM by David1819 »

Offline Adam

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2021, 12:36:PM »
The relatives got exactly the same as what you believe Jeremy murdered five people for. When you factor in the fact they helped themselves to Speakman's estate also, they got even more!

You just had to say 'yes' when I first asked the question.

People not involved in a crime successfully framing another man not involved in the crime, who was the victim of the crime. Surely a first.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 12:38:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Rob_

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2021, 05:10:PM »
The relatives got exactly the same as what you believe Jeremy murdered five people for. When you factor in the fact they helped themselves to Speakman's estate also, they got even more!

Did the jury know this would be the outcome of a guilty verdict? I thought they were lead to believe the relatives had no interest either way if JB was convicted or not? maybe I am mistaken?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2021, 07:30:PM »
Did the jury know this would be the outcome of a guilty verdict? I thought they were lead to believe the relatives had no interest either way if JB was convicted or not? maybe I am mistaken?
It would all on paper go to Pamela. Robert was not a direct beneficiary. https://jeremybamber.org/robert-boutflour/

Offline Rob_

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2021, 08:50:PM »
It would all on paper go to Pamela. Robert was not a direct beneficiary. https://jeremybamber.org/robert-boutflour/

Thanks Steve I have not read that before, was interesting.

Offline David1819

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2021, 12:32:PM »
Did the jury know this would be the outcome of a guilty verdict? I thought they were lead to believe the relatives had no interest either way if JB was convicted or not? maybe I am mistaken?

No. Rivlins lousy defence narrative meant that in order to acquit Jeremy, they would need to read between the lines.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 12:33:PM by David1819 »

Offline Rob_

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2021, 01:03:PM »
No. Rivlins lousy defence narrative meant that in order to acquit Jeremy, they would need to read between the lines.

A decent defence really trying to do their best for JB probably would have made a huge difference to the outcome?

Offline David1819

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2021, 01:30:PM »
A decent defence really trying to do their best for JB probably would have made a huge difference to the outcome?

Had the defence pursued a contamination narrative and provided ballistic and photographic evidence to back it up, absolutely.

NGB made a good summary of this a while back.

A reasonable ground can be an inference which may be drawn from the surrounding circumstances.  In this case just dealing with the silencer evidence: i) JB denied being responsible for the murders therefore the defence case was that Sheila had to be responsible, ii) the rifle was discovered by police without the silencer fitted, iii) the silencer was subsequently said to have been found by a relative days later in a box in the cupboard under the stairs, iii) the silencer was removed from WHF, examined and handled by several of the relatives and retained by them for several days, iv) the FSS found blood inside the silencer which was either Sheila's or, less likely, a mixture of Nevill's and June's, v) items of Sheila' bloodstained underwear were removed by a relative from WHF, vi) although possible, the suggestion that Shela had used the rifle with the silencer fitted initially then removed it, placed it in the box in the cupboard and then shot herself, was an unlikely scenario, vi) the only other explanation for the presence of the blood inside the silencer was contamination, either accidental or deliberate.

Against that background Rivlin would have been perfectly entitled to raise the suggestion of contamination, even deliberate contamination, because that was an inference which might be drawn from the evidence.

Offline David1819

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2021, 02:38:PM »
Bubo Bubo - According to David Birds pocketbook, DB1 (as in David Bird 1) is a soil sample taken from the scene.



« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 05:25:PM by David1819 »

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2021, 04:22:PM »
Bubo Bubo - Accord to David Birds pocketbook, DB1 (as in David Bird 1) is a soil sample taken from the scene.

I knew that. How come he is recording DB1 on the 10/09/85 but he recorded DB2 - DB6 on the day 07/08/85? There are only two explanations. 1 The DB who sampled the SM, fire debris etc. is someone else with the initials DB or 2 he has had to create a DB1 by adding an entry to the end of a log book page. The entry would be valid without the last line. The soil sample was to check for a match with soil found on the bike tyres I believe.

By the time he made the entry Ainsley was in charge and working with AE and PE on the silencer ploy they needed to to replace the original entry which would be used to replace the one they were going to change to DRB1. They may have chosen David Bird because his initials fitted and this allowed them to keep another operative with initials DB secret. Of course it could just be a clumsy bit of evidence manipulation.

If as I suggest they were in the business of a cover up there may have been assets used who they wished to remain anonymous.

Of course Mr X could have been told to register his finds as DB.

hmm the photographer visits the farm on the 10th of september but it seems only takes photographs that do not include in interior photos of WHF.

The so called finding of a silencer in august claims should have prompted photographs being taken shortly afterwards  ..including the so called scratches on the aga surround.

The real case seems to be that the silencer supposedly found in the gun cupboard in september and handed in on the 11th prompted a rapid response to take photographs of the aga surround underside and the gun cupboard on the 12th.

As I see it the photographs being taken as they were on these issues supports the view that no silencer was found by the relatives in august and handed in shortly afterwards but does support a silencer being handed in to the police on the 11th september.


just a theory....
the police photographer visits whf on 10th september...but ONLY takes photographs of things outside the house ...to infer no entry was made by the police into whf on that day...
but how about a police officer enters and plants the silencer after scratching paint with it and leaves it in the gun cupboard for "the relatives" to find....which happens the very next day...

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hmm the blue socks.... from the main bedroom...
for a suicide investigation...they seem unimportant and can be passed off as possibly neville's..for people are not looking at things too closely as no one is going to be charged are they ?...so without a defence poking its nose it...there is less need to be so picky over fine details that might not tie up with a suicide theory.
the story changes when its murder so little details that dont add up may play a far bigger role...hence the socks are now important ..due to claims about sheila's alleged  clean feet which they should not be if she was murdered and had walked over a carpet that had wet blood spots all over it around the time it is alleged she was murdered.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 05:04:PM by Bubo bubo »

Offline David1819

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2021, 05:13:PM »
I knew that.

If you knew that, then why did you ask me to account for it in the first place?

How come he is recording DB1 on the 10/09/85 but he recorded DB2 - DB6 on the day 07/08/85?

Where are you getting that from? The lab docs show these exhibits were recovered in September.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 05:14:PM by David1819 »

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #57 on: August 17, 2021, 06:16:PM »
I apologise for the way I used you to settle my mind. I wanted an unbiased view so no prompting. I thought you might have come up with an answer I had not considered.

As far as the note you found this is an attempt to move all these critical items away from the fatal day 07/08/85. They had already worked out a workaround for DB1 by using the initials ploy.
They had to get DB at WHF collecting fire debris. However by this date they had burned carpets and bedding on the previous Wednesday and JB had burnt his parents clothes at the weekend.

I would have expected him to find items such as zips, buttons, brassiere wire etc.

However , he claims he went inside to collect socks. Outside he says he just took photos. Where does he say he collected these other items?

And nothing about a soil sample!
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 06:30:PM by Bubo bubo »

Offline David1819

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2021, 06:51:PM »
I apologise for the way I used you to settle my mind. I wanted an unbiased view so no prompting. I thought you might have come up with an answer I had not considered.

As far as the note you found this is an attempt to move all these critical items away from the fatal day 07/08/85. They had already worked out a workaround for DB1 by using the initials ploy.
They had to get DB at WHF collecting fire debris. However by this date they had burned carpets and bedding on the previous Wednesday and JB had burnt his parents clothes at the weekend.

I would have expected him to find items such as zips, buttons, brassiere wire etc.

However , he claims he went inside to collect socks. Outside he says he just took photos. Where does he say he collected these other items?

And nothing about a soil sample!

Just because its not mentioned in this statement does not mean he never collected it. The soil sample was probably not relevant for the reason the statement was taken.

Moreover the reason the soil sample is never mentioned is JHs list is probably because its not in his area of expertise. The soil sample was collected to try and match it to the soil on the bike at JBs cottage.

Offline David1819

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Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2021, 06:56:PM »