After Silencer was handed in by Ann Eaton on 11th Setember 1985?

[mike tesko]

After Silencer was handed in by Ann Eaton

On 11th September 1985, David Boutflour found a silencer (DRB/1) in the gun cupboard at whf, and he telephoned the pol;ice to let them know of his find and also to tell them that they could collect it from his sisters home (Ann Eaton) that same day, which is in fact what they did...

Once this silencer (DRB/1) was handed over to the police, PC David Bird visited the farmhouse on 12th September 1985, and he took a series of photographs showing  the damage to the underside of the kitchen mantelpiece over the fireplace in the kitchen at whf, photographs which he attached to photographs album bearing reference:- A124/85...

On 13th September 1985, DS Eastwood and DS Davidson, took possession of this silencer and fingerprinted it...

On 26th September 1985, this silencer (DRB/1) was submitted to the Lab' to be checked for blood and fibers from a tampon...

Of course, the crucial blood evidence (A, EAP BA, AK1 and HP 2-1) had already been found and identified from the other silencer by this stage...

[smiffy]

and of course any photographs taken of the underside of the shelf in september....well scratches under there....some of these could have been made any time after the murders/suicide when various people had access to the house.

one then needs to know if photographs exist of this area on the day of the murders/suicide to establish whether a claim can be made that new scratches or other damage occurred after the day of the murder but before the later photographs were taken.
Unless it can be proven that no new scratches or other damage appeared then the paint on the silencer claims fall to be dismissed.

If  fresh scratches or paint flecks had been discovered on the day of the murders/suicide...and some statements suggest this ...then every reason already existed on that day for photographs to be taken recording  the damage. 

[mike tesko]

and of course any photographs taken of the underside of the shelf in september....well scratches under there....some of these could have been made any time after the murders/suicide when various people had access to the house.

one then needs to know if photographs exist of this area on the day of the murders/suicide to establish whether a claim can be made that new scratches or other damage occurred after the day of the murder but before the later photographs were taken.
Unless it can be proven that no new scratches or other damage appeared then the paint on the silencer claims fall to be dismissed.

If  fresh scratches or paint flecks had been discovered on the day of the murders/suicide...and some statements suggest this ...then every reason already existed on that day for photographs to be taken recording  the damage.

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I agree, in particular, because on 8th August 1985, a paint sample, RC/1 was taken from the aga, because some paint was found on the end of a guns barrel, a gun which DS Davidson described as having been found downstairs, and which had received a hard knock...

If marks were on the aga by that stage, the police would have taken photographs of them, hence the importance of any marks which materialized there at a later time?

I think there are three dates when pictures were taken at the scene, between which it should be possible to determine when marks got made, or additional marks got made:-

(1) - 7th August 1985?
(2) - 12th September 1985?
(3)  - 1st October 1985?

[sarann]

The 'pair of blue socks from the main bedroom' - are these the socks we've seen in the photos, near Sheila?

[smiffy]

hmm the photographer visits the farm on the 10th of september but it seems only takes photographs that do not include in interior photos of WHF.

The so called finding of a silencer in august claims should have prompted photographs being taken shortly afterwards  ..including the so called scratches on the aga surround.

The real case seems to be that the silencer supposedly found in the gun cupboard in september and handed in on the 11th prompted a rapid response to take photographs of the aga surround underside and the gun cupboard on the 12th.

As I see it the photographs being taken as they were on these issues supports the view that no silencer was found by the relatives in august and handed in shortly afterwards but does support a silencer being handed in to the police on the 11th september.


just a theory....
the police photographer visits whf on 10th september...but ONLY takes photographs of things outside the house ...to infer no entry was made by the police into whf on that day...
but how about a police officer enters and plants the silencer after scratching paint with it and leaves it in the gun cupboard for "the relatives" to find....which happens the very next day...

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hmm the blue socks.... from the main bedroom...
for a suicide investigation...they seem unimportant and can be passed off as possibly neville's..for people are not looking at things too closely as no one is going to be charged are they ?...so without a defence poking its nose it...there is less need to be so picky over fine details that might not tie up with a suicide theory.
the story changes when its murder so little details that dont add up may play a far bigger role...hence the socks are now important ..due to claims about sheila's alleged  clean feet which they should not be if she was murdered and had walked over a carpet that had wet blood spots all over it around the time it is alleged she was murdered.

[mike tesko]

The 'pair of blue socks from the main bedroom' - are these the socks we've seen in the photos, near Sheila?

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Yes...

[smiffy]

the blue socks were found to have spots of blood on them fully consistent with the spots of blood on the carpet and coming from June.

It seems credible therefore that they had been on the floor all the time..but may have been in a different location.

That they were recovered by Bird at a far later date though may be significant .
If the original cover up was to pass off a suicide they may have been placed near Sheila's body to give the impression she may have worn them and hence a reason for clean feet...her having took them off just prior to killing herself. If this was the cover story the police wished to persue...then there would be no motive to check them in case the results were adverse to the story they were seeking to promote.

[Roch]

Would it be possible to display side by side, all the evidence that suggests the sound moderator was found in August and all the evidence that suggests sound moderator was found in September.  The one versus the other.

It may then be possible for people to decide for themselves, which date holds the strongest evidential case.  And therefore who is likely to telling the truth and/or misrepresenting the truth? 

[andrea]

Would it be possible to display side by side, all the evidence that suggests the sound moderator was found in August and all the evidence that suggests sound moderator was found in September.  The one versus the other.

It may then be possible for people to decide for themselves, which date holds the strongest evidential case.  And therefore who is likely to telling the truth and/or misrepresenting the truth?

good idea roch

[smiffy]

There is a fair bit of evidence number swapping...
lets see a minute...
David Bird (SOC) uses the initials DB on his exhibits.... oddly...the day after the silencer was handed in on the 11th  Bird just happens to collect the socks at whf and creates exhibit number DB 6.
Thats a rather low number....the question is...could the socks have been collected earlier by someone else and given another number which has then been switched in the paperwork...possibly a DRH or ND number (fellow SOC officers)...and a false story created.
Were items given DB numbers as a cover story created to change silencer DB1 into DRB 1...part of some creative manipulation to pass off the silencer as being the same item when it was not.

[killingeve]

After Silencer was handed in by Ann Eaton

On 11th September 1985, David Boutflour found a silencer (DRB/1) in the gun cupboard at whf, and he telephoned the pol;ice to let them know of his find and also to tell them that they could collect it from his sisters home (Ann Eaton) that same day, which is in fact what they did...

Once this silencer (DRB/1) was handed over to the police, PC David Bird visited the farmhouse on 12th September 1985, and he took a series of photographs showing  the damage to the underside of the kitchen mantelpiece over the fireplace in the kitchen at whf, photographs which he attached to photographs album bearing reference:- A124/85...

On 13th September 1985, DS Eastwood and DS Davidson, took possession of this silencer and fingerprinted it...

On 26th September 1985, this silencer (DRB/1) was submitted to the Lab' to be checked for blood and fibers from a tampon...

Of course, the crucial blood evidence (A, EAP BA, AK1 and HP 2-1) had already been found and identified from the other silencer by this stage...

I would say the statement above comprising of two sheets is not an actual continuation and there's been some fiddling around with it.

Where DC Bird visits a venue he starts off with -

At 9.20am
About 1.50pm
At 11am
At 2pm

And yet with regard to a supposed visit to the farmhouse on Thursday 12th Sept to collect the blue socks from the main bedroom he simply starts the para with 10.10 am.  Also there's a line across the page which coupled with what I've just mentioned lends support to someone fiddling about with the statement.