Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: sherlock on November 29, 2017, 12:12:PM
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My own opinion is that Freddie was probably a bad sort.
There are 3 very real possibilities.
1) He was a good platonic friend to Sheila - they both used cocaine sometimes and as is common in theses circumstances one of them had to get it when they wanted to take some - it just happened that it was Freddie who got it for them to do together ...
2) Freddie was a good guy and maybe he was hopeful of a proper relationship with Sheila and was taking it slowly hoping something more than friendship might develop - nothing wrong with that if it was the case ...
3) Freddie was looking at using Sheila - let's face it there are men who hang around models trying to introduce them to cocaine for bad reasons - maybe to have sex with them - maybe to turn them into customers for their drugs - and sometimes to addict then to their drugs before then turning them to prostitution - the tactic here would clearly be to build up a large debt and then get them selling their bodies to pay the debt - it is a fact that when this happens that naive girls who do not know the value of drugs may be given for example a couple of thousand pounds worth of drugs but led to believe that the value of the drugs they have consumed is a much higher figure - could this be where the rumours of Sheila's very large drug debts come from ?
We do know that Sheila was under constant financial pressure in her day to day life.
What was Freddie all about ?
Is there any truth in the "massage rumours" ?
When a model who takes cocaine gets involved in massaging older men i tend to suspect the worst ...
If the massage rumours and drug debt rumours are true then it could mean that Sheila was being forced to lead a lifestyle that might have become intolerable for her ...
Just a thought ...
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I think he was a bad lot too Sherlock. When you have two little children who are scared of the man there has to be something radically wrong. Children are good at sensing.
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When he met the family he probably presented himself like a con-man would,full of bluff and his promise to keep an eye on their daughter,etc.
Couldn't he take a hint when Sheila saw him as the " Devil ?"
Maybe her outbursts were the only way she could truthfully express herself,a bit like a drunk who uses drink as Dutch courage when confronting someone.
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When he met the family he probably presented himself like a con-man would,full of bluff and his promise to keep an eye on their daughter,etc.
Couldn't he take a hint when Sheila saw him as the " Devil ?"
Maybe her outbursts were the only way she could truthfully express herself,a bit like a drunk who uses drink as Dutch courage when confronting someone.
yes i agree lookout that sounds right.it also might explain the £40.000 drug debt .when buying the drugs for shelia he could have made out the drugs were 10 times more expensive than usual or as is often the case a £500 deal of coke given on tick with interest of an extra £500 if not paid by end of the month,that would soon add up.drug dealers even now employ this tactic alot
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yes i agree lookout that sounds right.it also might explain the £40.000 drug debt .when buying the drugs for shelia he could have made out the drugs were 10 times more expensive than usual or as is often the case a £500 deal of coke given on tick with interest of an extra £500 if not paid by end of the month,that would soon add up.drug dealers even now employ this tactic alot
There's no way I'd have trusted him and I agree with what you say.
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Sheila only seemed to fall into bad ways after meeting him. He played on her vulnerability.
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Sheila only seemed to fall into bad ways after meeting him. He played on her vulnerability.
yes and liked you said he might have had bigger plans to use her and her wealthy parents
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I think he was a bad lot too Sherlock. When you have two little children who are scared of the man there has to be something radically wrong. Children are good at sensing.
I agree 100%.
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When he met the family he probably presented himself like a con-man would,full of bluff and his promise to keep an eye on their daughter,etc.
Couldn't he take a hint when Sheila saw him as the " Devil ?"
Maybe her outbursts were the only way she could truthfully express herself,a bit like a drunk who uses drink as Dutch courage when confronting someone.
Again i agree with you 100%.
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When he met the family he probably presented himself like a con-man would,full of bluff and his promise to keep an eye on their daughter,etc.
Couldn't he take a hint when She saw him as the " Devil ?"
Maybe her outbursts were the only way she could truthfully express herself,a bit like a drunk who uses drink as Dutch courage when confronting someone.
Yes, Julie's family fell for Jeremy's charm - shockin!
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Yes, Julie's family fell for Jeremy's charm - shockin!
Do keep up.This is about Freddie.
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Do keep up.This is about Freddie.
Oh I am well up to speed!
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Oh I am well up to speed!
So am I---more so.
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£40,000 in1985 is £90,000 today.
Sheila obviously was not taking heroin as there are no needle marks on her arms. So must have been taking a hell of a lot of cocaine or dope.
Maybe Jeremy found out over the last supper that Nevill was going to clear Sheila's drugs debt. Before Nevill telling Jeremy not be late for work tomorrow. He wasn't.
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£40,000 in1985 is £90,000 today.
Sheila obviously was not taking heroin as there are no needle marks on her arms. So must have been taking a hell of a lot of cocaine or dope.
Maybe Jeremy found out over the last supper that Nevill was going to clear Sheila's drugs debt. Before Nevill telling Jeremy not be late for work tomorrow. He wasn't.
hearing that would have been the final straw for jb.their fate was sealed
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hearing that would have been the final straw for jb.they fate was sealed
Also the fact he was mad about his mother giving money to Church?
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Also the fact he was mad about his mother giving money to Church?
I don't think my family would be best pleased if I left anything to the cats home,but they wouldn't murder me.
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I don't think my family would be best pleased if I left anything to the cats home,but they wouldn't murder me.
Weren't not talking about leaving money to the church, Jeremy didn't like the fact that June gave the church donations. I'm sure your family wouldn't mind you making donations to the cats home.
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Weren't not talking about leaving money to the church, Jeremy didn't like the fact that June gave the church donations. I'm sure your family wouldn't mind you making donations to the cats home.
I also make regular donations to the local hospice and air ambulance. And will be supporting the sick children in Yemen.
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I don't think my family would be best pleased if I left anything to the cats home,but they wouldn't murder me.
the cats might if they found out you hadnt left them something :))
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the cats might if they found out you hadnt left them something :))
Yes sami,they'd go mad. ;D
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Yes sami,they'd go mad. ;D
:)) :)) :))
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I also make regular donations to the local hospice and air ambulance. And will be supporting the sick children in Yemen.
Well that's all very nice - POINT BEING - your family haven't complained - Jeremy DID complain about his mothing making donations to the church.
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Well that's all very nice - POINT BEING - your family haven't complained - Jeremy DID complain about his mothing making donations to the church.
My family won't know until I'm dead what my spending habits are.
My late husband's grannie left her money to the church as well----------most of it. Husband went ballistic.
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I feel that more excuses for him being a murderer are rearing once again ::)
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£40,000 in1985 is £90,000 today.
Sheila obviously was not taking heroin as there are no needle marks on her arms. So must have been taking a hell of a lot of cocaine or dope.
Maybe Jeremy found out over the last supper that Nevill was going to clear Sheila's drugs debt. Before Nevill telling Jeremy not be late for work tomorrow. He wasn't.
Heroin is in most people's opinion a worse drug but in general it is a cheaper habit.
You would be very surprised how much money a cocaine user can spend even in one night.
A thousand pounds or even two thousand would be common.
A session like that once a week for a few months could explain a 40,000 drug "debt".
If a dealer wanted to get a beautiful model firmly in his debt then it would not be a big investment ...
In particular if the dealer is giving the naive model cocaine at vastly inflated prices.
For a dealer a real investment of 4,000 cash could very easily lead to a £40,000 debt.
Typically the dealer will act friendly and say the debt is no problem - then when the debt is too high to get out of the dealer says that he ows it to his dealer and he is a nasty guy - and now it is out of his hands and the nasty dealer wants his money quickly - a bit like good cop bad cop but in a criminal sense ...
London was and still is full of dealers only too keen to use these exact methods on vulnerable beautiful young women in order to use them - was Freddie one of these characters ? Or was he simply a good friend to Sheila ?
What facts have we got to help us decide ?
I discount Mr and Mrs Bambers good opinion of Freddie because so often these people do meet their victims parents and do attempt to create a good impression.
The twins spent a lot more time with Freddie and they did not like him.
6 year old's do not dislike a person unless that person is dislikeable.
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Heroin is in most people's opinion a worse drug but in general it is a cheaper habit.
You would be very surprised how much money a cocaine user can spend even in one night.
A thousand pounds or even two thousand would be common.
A session like that once a week for a few months could explain a 40,000 drug "debt".
If a dealer wanted to get a beautiful model firmly in his debt then it would not be a big investment ...
In particular if the dealer is giving the naive model cocaine at vastly inflated prices.
For a dealer a real investment of 4,000 cash could very easily lead to a £40,000 debt.
Typically the dealer will act friendly and say the debt is no problem - then when the debt is too high to get out of the dealer says that he ows it to his dealer and he is a nasty guy - and now it is out of his hands and the nasty dealer wants his money quickly - a bit like good cop bad cop but in a criminal sense ...
London was and still is full of dealers only too keen to use these exact methods on vulnerable beautiful young women in order to use them - was Freddie one of these characters ? Or was he simply a good friend to Sheila ?
What facts have we got to help us decide ?
I discount Mr and Mrs Bambers good opinion of Freddie because so often these people do meet their victims parents and do attempt to create a good impression.
The twins spent a lot more time with Freddie and they did not like him.
6 year old's do not dislike a person unless that person is dislikeable.
excellent post sherlock ,totally agree.your knowledge on the drug scene is impressive ;)
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Spending £1,000 in one night on cocaine ? I just need a few of drinks to relax me & give me confidence on a night out.
However don't believe the rumors that alcohol can also be an aphrodisiac. The only thing alcohol gets up is you're hopes.
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Spending £1,000 in one night on cocaine ? I just need a few of drinks to relax me & give me confidence on a night out.
However don't believe the rumors that alcohol can also be an aphrodisiac. The only thing alcohol gets up is you're hopes.
:)) :)) :))
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I don't honestly think that he did Sheila any favours at all. Her parents helped financially,so why did he have to do ? As well as helping Sheila financially he had a wife to support,so what was his game ? Then when Sheila saw him as the " devil " why didn't he scarper as she herself might not have liked him either for having called him such.
Where did the idea that he drove a Rolls Royce come from ? It couldn't have been further than the truth.
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My family won't know until I'm dead what my spending habits are.
My late husband's grannie left her money to the church as well----------most of it. Husband went ballistic.
We're NOT talking about LEAVING money, we're talking about DONATIONS while ALIVE!
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We're NOT talking about LEAVING money, we're talking about DONATIONS while ALIVE!
Did JB personally,verbally express his concern about this,like an admission in his statement ?
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Did JB personally,verbally express his concern about this,like an admission in his statement ?
No Brett made it up to protect him ;D
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Did JB personally,verbally express his concern about this,like an admission in his statement ?
Why? Because his word is so reliable? ::)
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Why? Because his word is so reliable? ::)
No.Like you I need some proof of his own admission.
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No.Like you I need some proof of his own admission.
Seriously Lookout, if he is guilty of murder, is he going to say that he hated the fact that his mother gave money to the church or that he was afraid she would leave them money in her will? Why did he go looking for the will a few years prior to his parents deaths? It's not something I would EVER have considered doing with my own parents - usually the thought of their death, is something you would rather not think about and distribution of their wealth is an even worse consideration because in order to inherit, they would have to be dead.
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Seriously Lookout, if he is guilty of murder, is he going to say that he hated the fact that his mother gave money to the church or that he was afraid she would leave them money in her will? Why did he go looking for the will a few years prior to his parents deaths? It's not something I would EVER have considered doing with my own parents - usually the thought of their death, is something you would rather not think about and distribution of their wealth is an even worse consideration because in order to inherit, they would have to be dead.
Was this request written in June's will ?
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Was this request written in June's will ?
Whether it was or wasn't isn't exactly the question. It's more about what Jeremy may have feared A) WOULD be there, B) what changes might be made to what was already there.
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If JB had supposedly seen the Wills months before the murders he'd have already known,wouldn't he ?
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Seriously Lookout, if he is guilty of murder, is he going to say that he hated the fact that his mother gave money to the church or that he was afraid she would leave them money in her will? Why did he go looking for the will a few years prior to his parents deaths? It's not something I would EVER have considered doing with my own parents - usually the thought of their death, is something you would rather not think about and distribution of their wealth is an even worse consideration because in order to inherit, they would have to be dead.
i agree caroline the thought of ones parents dying is something we try and avoid because its such a painful fact
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If JB had supposedly seen the Wills months before the murders he'd have already known,wouldn't he ?
But he wouldn't necessarily have know whether June would carry out her verbal intention to bestow money on the church, OR from where she might take already promised monies to fund such.
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But he wouldn't necessarily have know whether June would carry out her verbal intention to bestow money on the church, OR from where she might take already promised monies to fund such.
Where did he get the idea from in the first place ? Or from whom ?
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Where did he get the idea from in the first place ? Or from whom ?
Possibly from June herself, ie "If you do/don't.................I'll................."
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Possibly from June herself, ie "If you do/don't.................I'll................."
So who was the third party involved who would have known being as June can't speak for herself ? JB isn't going to repeat this is he ?
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So who was the third party involved who would have known being as June can't speak for herself ? JB isn't going to repeat this is he ?
Was it not part of Jeremy's disgruntlement during one of his conversations with Julie's mother -about his relationship with June- prior to the murders?
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Was it not part of Jeremy's disgruntlement during one of his conversations with Julie's mother -about his relationship with June- prior to the murders?
I don't know.Do we have her wit.stat. ?
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I don't know.Do we have her wit.stat. ?
Undoubtedly..................whilst you're looking for it, you could try looking for others who Jeremy might have said it to. He wouldn't have hated his parents for no reason, would he?
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I can't find anything pertaining to the fact that Jeremy had groused about his mother leaving her money,or any money to the church.
I did read a crime-writer's view on religious backgrounds playing a part in murders though. As once upon a time there were over 300 murders committed in a square mile walk in London.
Recent studies showed that,quote " people of faith " are more likely to be murderers than atheists,unquote,Sept. 2017.
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I can't find anything pertaining to the fact that Jeremy had groused about his mother leaving her money,or any money to the church.
I did read a crime-writer's view on religious backgrounds playing a part in murders though. As once upon a time there were over 300 murders committed in a square mile walk in London.
Recent studies showed that,quote " people of faith " are more likely to be murderers than atheists,unquote,Sept. 2017.
I expect you'll find it eventually. You know how it is with these things. They have a habit of turning up when you're not looking for them, don't they?
I wonder exactly WHICH faith that "study" is alluding to? No, don't tell me. I can guess. It may be of interest to know that for most "people of faith" it's wrong to take life, however, for fanatics, it's irrelevant whether or not they have faith. It may just be a convenient cloak to hide behind.
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I expect you'll find it eventually. You know how it is with these things. They have a habit of turning up when you're not looking for them, don't they?
I wonder exactly WHICH faith that "study" is alluding to? No, don't tell me. I can guess. It may be of interest to know that for most "people of faith" it's wrong to take life, however, for fanatics, it's irrelevant whether or not they have faith. It may just be a convenient cloak to hide behind.
Varying faiths and religions. One murderer ( H H HOLMES )who had strict religious parents used to lock the children in the attic without food as a punishment for the smallest of " their sins ".
Isn't their motto " Thou shalt not kill ?".
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Varying faiths and religions. One murderer ( H H HOLMES )who had strict religious parents used to lock the children in the attic without food as a punishment for the smallest of " their sins ".
Isn't their motto " Thou shalt not kill ?".
As balanced against the millions who would never dream of treating their children in such a way, and probably even more million -of faith or otherwise- who believe "Thou shalt not kill". Lookout, I'm very familiar with how stats work and I know that truly bad things happen, but I don't apply the bad in people first.
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Yes, Julie's family fell for Jeremy's charm - shockin!
In your opinion
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In your opinion
Jeremy s innocent in YOUR opinion - the forum is about opinion! Talk about stating the blood obvious!
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Jeremy s innocent in YOUR opinion - the forum is about opinion! Talk about stating the blood obvious!
totally agree caroline. :)) :)) :)) ;)
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totally agree caroline. :)) :)) :)) ;)
She's nothing if not the master of the obvious!
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She's nothing if not the master of the obvious!
:)) :)) :)) :))
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:)) :)) :)) :))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgXrqqsMfW8
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She's nothing if not the master of the obvious!
Shouldn't that be mistress?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgXrqqsMfW8
:)) :))i hope i dont get a hernia through laughing :)) :))
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:)) :))i hope i dont get a hernia through laughing :)) :))
Ha Ha, I thought it was the Essex boys before they turned violent Sami ;D
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Ha Ha, I thought it was the Essex boys before they turned violent Sami ;D
:)) :)) :))