Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on August 03, 2017, 11:02:PM
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Only Julie has given a dialogued account of what Bamber said when he phoned her for the second time at 3am - 'everything's going well, I haven't slept all night. There is something wrong at the farm'.
This makes sense as Bamber obviously phoned Julie at such an unsocial time to tell her something.
Bamber said to the police 'no comment' when asked what he said in his phone call. Although he must have remembered.
A year after the massacre he testified he rang Julie 'to hear a friendly voice'.
Are there any suggestions of the exact words Bamber may have said. Remember Bamber was not ringing Julie for advice. Just to hear a friendly voice.
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Only Julie has given a dialogued account of what Bamber said when he phoned her for the second time at 3am - 'everything's going well, I haven't slept all night. There is something wrong at the farm'.
This makes sense as Bamber obviously phoned Julie at such an unsocial time to tell her something.
Bamber said to the police 'no comment' when asked what he said in his phone call. Although he must have remembered. Over a year later he testified he rang Julie 'to hear a friendly voice'.
Are there any suggestions of the exact words Bamber may have said. Remember Bamber was not ringing Julie for advice. Just to hear a friendly voice.
If you are going to have a discussion you have to try and understand both scenarios . By the tone of your post it is obvious you are not willing to do that . Or did you just want to start another thread?
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I'll give a suggestion.
Julie: 'Hello'.
Bamber 'It's me. Dad has rang & said Sheila's gone crazy and got the gun'. The police have told me to meet them at the farm'
Julie 'What time is it ? Why have you rang me ? I have work tomorrow'.
Bamber ' I just wanted to hear a friendly voice.
Julie ' Did you say you are meeting the police ? You should go rather than ringing me. I am too tired to speak'.
Bamber ' Ok. I will ring later'.
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If you are going to have a discussion you have to try and understand both scenarios . By the tone of your post it is obvious you are not willing to do that . Or did you just want to start another thread?
You can always give a suggestion of what Bamber said. He never has although must remember.
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I'll give a suggestion.
Julie: 'Hello'.
Bamber 'It's me. Dad has rang & said Sheila's gone crazy and got the gun'. The police have told me to meet them at the farm'
Julie 'What time is it ? Why have you rang me ? I have work tomorrow'.
Bamber ' I just wanted to hear a friendly voice.
Julie ' Did you say you are meeting the police ? You should go rather than ringing me. I am too tired to speak'.
Bamber ' Ok. I will ring later'.
I am sure Bamber felt better after hearing Julie's 3am 'friendly voice' for a few seconds.
And I'm sure Julie felt good after Bamber's call.
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I am sure Bamber felt better after hearing Julie's 3am 'friendly voice' for a few seconds.
And I'm sure Julie felt good after Bamber's call.
An alternative for the first call . Tonight's the night , for the murders i have told you about for months .
Oh no sweetie pie , don't do it , life in jail is it worth it ?, those poor children ? But you could share the millions with me ? So perhaps it is a good idea .
But don't cross me , or I might tell .
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An alternative for the first call . Tonight's the night , for the murders i have told you about for months .
Oh no sweetie pie , don't do it , life in jail is it worth it ?, those poor children ? But you could share the millions with me ? So perhaps it is a good idea .
But don't cross me , or I might tell .
It's a pity Bamber can't remember anything at all on what he said to Julie in his 3 phone calls to her. He remembers a lot of other things.
Bamber was the one who made the calls. So must remember what he said.
The police asked him what he said to Julie in the 3 phone calls in his police interviews. But getting any feedback was like pulling teeth.
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An alternative for the first call . Tonight's the night , for the murders i have told you about for months .
Oh no sweetie pie , don't do it , life in jail is it worth it ?, those poor children ? But you could share the millions with me ? So perhaps it is a good idea .
But don't cross me , or I might tell .
You asked Adam to look at an alternative, to see things from an innocent side - you didn't do that. At last he tried.
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You can always give a suggestion of what Bamber said. He never has although must remember.
So if he planned this meticulously down to false phone calls , leaving a staged suicide , leaving no forensic link to himself , getting rid of his clothes, etc etc then why would he admit a call that he can't remember?
In retrospect did he feel stupid and selfish for not taking his fathers call more seriously and taking more notice of what he said and doing the right thing ? Rather than hesitating , not calling 999 , or calling someone else to help? Did he feel that by panicking and ringing Julie for some sort of reassurance and advice he had done his father a misjustice , let him down when he needed him most ?
Sounds more likely than a chink in the armour of his perfect plan .
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You asked Adam to look at an alternative, to see things from an innocent side - you didn't do that. At last he tried.
We crossed posts . And I am trying to get him to post properly and not in some petulant child way . Which is what he sounds like .
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So if he planned this meticulously down to false phone calls , leaving a staged suicide , leaving no forensic link to himself , getting rid of his clothes, etc etc then why would he admit a call that he can't remember?
In retrospect did he feel stupid and selfish for not taking his fathers call more seriously and taking more notice of what he said and doing the right thing ? Rather than hesitating , not calling 999 , or calling someone else to help? Did he feel that by panicking and ringing Julie for some sort of reassurance and advice he had done his father a misjustice , let him down when he needed him most ?
Sounds more likely than a chink in the armour of his perfect plan .
How can he deny a call that other people in the flat can remember? There is no denying that the call happened, it's not just Julie that heard the phone ring.
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We crossed posts . And I am trying to get him to post properly and not in some petulant child way . Which is what he sounds like .
I am just trying to get some dialogue of what Bamber said to Julie at 3am.
He will remember what he said minutes after Nevill's call. But has only ever said 'no comment' outside of court.
Julie has given dialogue which makes sense as Bamber rang her at 3am to tell her something.
But you are not going to give any dialogue suggestions.
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Everyone knows julie is correct & Bamber in his third call said 'I've only got one 10p. Don't go to work. A police car is coming to pick you up'. Although Bamber won't confirm this.
This is exactly what happened. Bamber couldn't say any more with one 10p.
However there needs to be credible dialogue to match Bamber ringing Julie at 3am to 'hear a friendly voice'. Bamber just says 'no comment'.
At the moment the only dialogue has come from Julie. This matches her version of Bamber giving her an update after he had killed everyone.
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Everyone knows julie is correct & Bamber in his third call said 'I've only got one 10p. Don't go to work. A police car is coming to pick you up'. Although Bamber won't confirm this.
This is exactly what happened. Bamber couldn't say any more with one 10p.
However there needs to be credible dialogue to match Bamber ringing Julie at 3am to 'hear a friendly voice'. Bamber just says 'no comment'.
At the moment the only dialogue has come from Julie. This matches her version of Bamber giving her an update after he had killed everyone.
The excuse for the second telephone call does go down like a lead balloon, especially as the explanation for him jilting her was that their relationship had been cooling for months.
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How can he deny a call that other people in the flat can remember? There is no denying that the call happened, it's not just Julie that heard the phone ring.
I did not mean he did deny the call - he did not it is in his statements
Its whether he genuinely remembers what he said .
It seems its fine for Julie to say she was half asleep ( or drugged up ) and got confused but not Jeremy .
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I did not mean he did deny the call - he did not it is in his statements
Its whether he genuinely remembers what he said .
It seems its fine for Julie to say she was half asleep ( or drugged up ) and got confused but not Jeremy .
As Stan Jones asked: "Why telephone Julie at all.."
Bamber: "To tell her what was going on.."
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I did not mean he did deny the call - he did not it is in his statements
Its whether he genuinely remembers what he said .
It seems its fine for Julie to say she was half asleep ( or drugged up ) and got confused but not Jeremy .
I agree, we have to remember that a heck of a lot happened between JB's phone call to Julie and his statement. Surely it's understandable enough that he may struggle to recall his words in a phone call which possibly felt a world away after what happened later?
If he is truly innocent he must have been totally traumatised but he is expected to behave in a totally rational manner. If he is innocent he is probably still traumatised, probably has PTSD which could explain his reported bad behaviour towards people.
It's easy to judge from afar.
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The excuse for the second telephone call does go down like a lead balloon, especially as the explanation for him jilting her was that their relationship had been cooling for months.
It is strange that with the relationship coming to a close the last 6 months according to Bamber, he rang Julie three times in 7 hours. All at unsocial hours. And brought the bike over for her just before the massacre.
Mind you bringing a bike over for Julie to cycle to the train station isn't suggesting things were getting any stronger.
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The rejection Jeremy suffered from the primal wound, the second separation as he left for school, the alienation from the boys in the dormitory at Gresham's he endured for eight years, thawing somewhat only to be labelled as the Bastard as a fellow pupil misappropriated a trust, him leaving Gresham's lower in rank to those who left with superior qualifications and his realization that his life was mapped out as skivvy on the Farm until his parents' demise.
Was this feeling tempered somewhat by Sheila's own educational and career failure as both mother and sister disintegrated before his very eyes: June, like Psyche, sorting the seeds, entasked and imprisoned in her neverending quest for spiritual perfection, Sheila forever hounded with her own demons as she compared herself to the cosmetic perfection of the temporal world of Maida Vale? Did he begin to blossom away from the restrictions of formal education, or did he yearn for ever more freedom as June's talks with the vicar granted both children a degree of autonomy, or was the damage done as an ever more streetwise Jeremy began to reflect on his damaged physiognomy and decided he knew where to lay the blame?
Should Jeremy ever attempt to disburthen himself of that terrible legacy of his early twenties, could any individual exhort a confession, any figure of authority, any man of the cloth, when he has witnessed at first hand what destruction the slightest trust in any person or adhesion to religion has caused? What hope for any man who remains contented confined within a prison cell, reminiscent of an early life always spent apart, the prison cell mirroring the lifetime experiences he suffered isolated in those desolate compounds of school and White House Farm.
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I did not mean he did deny the call - he did not it is in his statements
Its whether he genuinely remembers what he said .
It seems its fine for Julie to say she was half asleep ( or drugged up ) and got confused but not Jeremy .
Julie's father didn't call her with early morning talk of guns and craziness - that's enough to wake anyone up. Buit then again, Jeremy's father didn't call either and he was already awake.
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As Stan Jones asked: "Why telephone Julie at all.."
Bamber: "To tell her what was going on.."
And also to bolster his alibi.
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I agree, we have to remember that a heck of a lot happened between JB's phone call to Julie and his statement. Surely it's understandable enough that he may struggle to recall his words in a phone call which possibly felt a world away after what happened later?
If he is truly innocent he must have been totally traumatised but he is expected to behave in a totally rational manner. If he is innocent he is probably still traumatised, probably has PTSD which could explain his reported bad behaviour towards people.
It's easy to judge from afar.
You would remember the gist, it was the most important day in his life and why would he be traumatised? At that point he supposedly didn't know what had happened and ceratinly wasn't bothered enough to call the police first.
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I agree, we have to remember that a heck of a lot happened between JB's phone call to Julie and his statement. Surely it's understandable enough that he may struggle to recall his words in a phone call which possibly felt a world away after what happened later?
If he is truly innocent he must have been totally traumatised but he is expected to behave in a totally rational manner. If he is innocent he is probably still traumatised, probably has PTSD which could explain his reported bad behaviour towards people.
It's easy to judge from afar.
Bamber wouldn't even say why he called Julie at 3am. Just saying 'no comment' to the police.
Calling Julie at 3am was the first or second thing he did after receiving Nevill's call. So there was no way he would forget what he said. The call only lasted a few seconds.
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What Julie said Bamber said in his 5am phone call is 100% correct. As that is what happened.
What Julie said Bamber said in his 10pm has been proved to be correct. Bamber did work on the tractor & go for supper at WHF that day.
Bamber just has to convince that he didn't phone Julie at 10pm to tell her 'tonights the night' & then at 3am to say 'everything is going well. At the moment he's failed to do this as he won't discuss these calls.
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You would remember the gist, it was the most important day in his life and why would he be traumatised? At that point he supposedly didn't know what had happened and ceratinly wasn't bothered enough to call the police first.
These murderers never inquire as to how their victims died, they are never curious, because deep down they know the answers and they know the difference between right and wrong. Jeremy Bamber, David Bain, Noura Jackson, Sheila Bowler, Lisa and Michelle Taylor: they never show emotion, never express remorse..
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It is strange that with the relationship coming to a close the last 6 months according to Bamber, he rang Julie three times in 7 hours. All at unsocial hours. And brought the bike over for her just before the massacre.
Mind you bringing a bike over for Julie to cycle to the train station isn't suggesting things were getting any stronger.
She was his girlfriend at the time so I think there is nothing unusual in that
A chat in the evening after work
A call because he was worried and did not know what to do very quick and brief
Then who else was he supposed to call when all his family were dead ?
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She was his girlfriend at the time so I think there is nothing unusual in that
A chat in the evening after work
A call because he was worried and did not know what to do very quick and brief
Then who else was he supposed to call when all his family were dead ?
He didn't call Julie for advice at 3am. He called her 'to hear a friendly voice'.
He testified he shouldn't have brought Julie over on the massacre morning. There were enough police & relatives available to console him.
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She was his girlfriend at the time so I think there is nothing unusual in that
A chat in the evening after work
A call because he was worried and did not know what to do very quick and brief
Then who else was he supposed to call when all his family were dead ?
But he's not supposed to know that at the time? How many blokes do you know who are trying to get rid of a clingy partner then go on to encourage them further?
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She was his girlfriend at the time so I think there is nothing unusual in that
A chat in the evening after work
A call because he was worried and did not know what to do very quick and brief
Then who else was he supposed to call when all his family were dead ?
Didn't know what to do? Really?
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But he's not supposed to know that at the time? How many blokes do you know who are trying to get rid of a clingy partner then go on to encourage them further?
I thought the police asked him if he wanted to call someone? - oh yes I remember now it was before the raid so sorry he could not call his family because they were in a middle of a siege and the phone was off the hook
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If the relatives had been normal individuals,he'd have phoned them. JM happened to have been the only one he was close enough to speak normally with.
Anyone receiving such a call automatically tells the one who happens to have the closest connection with that person,not those who have shown hostility.
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If the relatives had been normal individuals,he'd have phoned them. JM happened to have been the only one he was close enough to speak normally with.
Anyone receiving such a call automatically tells the one who happens to have the closest connection with that person,not those who have shown hostility.
Well, not really, they generally call the police first.
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Well, not really, they generally call the police first.
People are different,thank goodness. It's not every night that anyone gets such a call out of the blue such as what happened with this one.
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I wonder why Nevill didn't summon help from the workers who resided at the four cottages near the Farm? If the argument is he wanted to keep Sheila's illness "in-house" the case for him calling Police flies out of the window.
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Again,I imagine that Neville had been too taken aback at what Sheila's intentions were that he hadn't had time to think about anything other than letting Jeremy know the situation.
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People are different,thank goodness. It's not every night that anyone gets such a call out of the blue such as what happened with this one.
Lookout I agree with you we all would act differently and it is difficult to say how I would have reacted I think I would have phoned my boyfriend because I would be frightened of overreacting and calling the police out when it was not necessary I am hopeless at making decisions even buying a coat I have to get a second opinion :))
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Again,I imagine that Neville had been too taken aback at what Sheila's intentions were that he hadn't had time to think about anything other than letting Jeremy know the situation.
I'm sure letting Jeremy know was Nevill's priority.
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I'm sure letting Jeremy know was Nevill's priority.
Which was a shame for Bamber as he's spent 32 years in prison since.
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I'm sure letting Jeremy know was Nevill's priority.
And why not ? Think about it !
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And why not ? Think about it !
Reasons why Nevill would not call Bamber:
1: Jeremy may not answer. Regardless of whether he heard the phone ringing or not.
2:Neville may not have time. Sheila was going crazy. There were five people inside WHF who were the priority.
3: Bamber may not answer for a long time as was 'sleeping like a log'.
4: Neville may only get the answering machine.
5: Neville will assume the answering machine is switched on. Making it impossible for Jeremy to answer the phone within 3 - 8 rings as he was 'sleeping like a log'.
6: Jeremy did not like Sheila or understand her illness. So would just make things worse when trying to talk her down.
7: Sheila did not like Jeremy.
8: Another adult, June was available at WHF.
9: The rifle was not powerful, being used for vermin. Neville would know this. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.
10: Sheila had 'limited'/ no experience with guns. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.
11: Neville could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.
12: Neville and June together could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit.
13: Jeremy was three miles away and not dressed.
14: The police had been called by Neville ten minutes earlier.
15: Neville would be putting his only son in danger.
16: Jeremy may be scared to go over. He told Liz Rimmington that Sheila was going 'back to the nut house' and told the police she had committed child abuse. Now Neville had told him she had 'gone crazy' with a gun.
17: Jeremy did not have a key to WHF so would have to smash the door down, or smash a window. Or shout through the letter box. Making Sheila more excitable. Neville may not have been aware that Jeremy could get in through windows.
18: Sheila would not be pleased to see him.
19: Jeremy would be reluctant to rush over if answering the phone. Having poor relations with all the family.
20: Jeremy may refuse to go over. Being tired and upset at being woken.Lookout said it was common for Sheila to have 'one of her turns' so he may have decided to go back to bed.
21: Jeremy may not rush over. Maybe wasting up to 26 minutes doing strange things.
22: Jeremy may just ring nearby farm workers and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do himself and may consider a better option.
23: Jeremy may just ring the Foakes's and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do and may consider a better option.
24: Neville calling someone would antagonise Sheila. She may even brutally beat someone.
25: Neville could call the Foakes's. Who were two adults living at WHF.
26: There was no time to make any calls if Sheila had 'gone' crazy with a gun.
27: When there was time to make a call Neville had the option of restraining Sheila. Getting June to assist.
28: There was no time to wait for someone to arrive. Sheila had 'gone 'crazy'.
28: Relations between the two were poor and getting worse. After Jeremy robbed the caravan site and spent the money.
30: Neville would be prepared to take a torso bullet in order to restrain Sheila. Knowing the gun was for shooting vermin/rabbits and a torso shot would not kill him.
31: The kitchen phone was downstairs. Meaning everyone would be left upstairs. Unless Sheila had accompanied him downstairs.
32: If the answering machine was switched off, as his supporters claim. Jeremy would not hear his downstairs phone. If his bedroom door was shut.
33: Neville was bigger and stronger than Jeremy and the head of the family.
34: Sheila would have to let Neville open the door when Jeremy arrives. Or Neville would have to put himself in danger by getting to the front door against Sheila's wishes.
35: Sheila is more likely to fire bullets if more people start pressurising her and arriving on the scene.
36: Neville would be aware that he was the person who always had most success in calming down an excited Sheila. If he couldn't, then someone who thought Sheila was a 'looney' certainly could not.
37: Jeremy was not known to be especially brave. So may refuse to go anywhere near the inside of WHF. Preferring to stay 50 yards from the entrance. This is what happened.
38: Neville would be implicating his son if there were any injuries or fatalities. As Jeremy would be first on the scene and first witness. This is what happened.
39: Jeremy was not known for being especially brave. So may have just phoned the police. Neville had either already done this. Or wanted to keep things private. Jeremy did in fact call the police.
40: It is not standard practice to call relations on the phone at 3am when you're life is in danger. There are no other examples of this happening.