Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Stephanie on December 02, 2016, 12:55:PM

Title: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 02, 2016, 12:55:PM
"I wanted to write something about this being my 30th Christmas in prison. I had enjoyed just twenty-three Christmas celebrations before coming to Jail. I’ve talked about this time of year before and I wanted to recall a different aspect of it to share with you here.

Jeremy Bamber refers to having talked about 'this time of year' before however I've been unable to find any blogs where he has blogged about Christmas, suggesting this is yet another lie.

Firstly, and I find this very hard to even admit, as each year passes I’m finding it harder to recall emotional memories of how it was outside during this festive period. I’d always believed those feelings of such intense happiness that I had experienced celebrating Christmas at home would remain with me, but sadly, as I grow old in prison so the memories have begun to fade.

Why would he find it harder to recall emotional memories of how it was outside during this festive period? Who believes this? I don't! Most peoples emotions regarding Christmas from years gone by increase with time. I see this as a glimpse into the real Jeremy Bamber who is incapable of experiencing a range of normal emotions like most people do. Why does he use the word emotional? Very telling imo

Secondly, these fading memories make me feel ashamed as if I’m letting down my deceased family in some way. His deceased family? What about his murdered family? Why doesn't he refer to his emotions regarding having left the gun out in the kitchen with 10 rounds in it? 
He's seeking pity - which disordered individuals are renowned for.

It seems odd to say this, It is odd but not for someone who doesn't experience the same range of emotions of someone who isn't disordered! and I’m not sure if I can put this into words properly—It’s as if somehow my fading memories of Christmas can be explained by saying they cannot have been as happy as I have portrayed them to be. Pity seeking as usual. Where has he previously portrayed his memories of Christmas as happy memories? His last two Christmases were spent with Julie Mugford. Why no mention of them?  Yet they really were happy times. If they really were happy times why write the garbage he did in the previous sentence? Especially so when Daniel and Nicholas reached the age of two. The boys loved being at the farm at Christmas, Did the two year old boys tell him this? we’d all sit around the kitchen table and make decorations. Colin and Sheila were both artistic so they out shone the rest of us by a country mile. But we’d spray paint pine cones with cans of gold and silver, Two year old boys spray painting pine cones? Yeah right! and put together long lengths of paper chains whilst testing the quality of each batch of freshly made mince pies that mum kept taking out of the oven. The game was to distract mum’s attention in some way so that dad could palm a couple of mince pies off the cooling rack without being noticed, then pass them to each of us out of sight under the table. Two year old boys would understand this game would they? He's lying! It seemed such great fun, and they did taste all the better for being obtained by stealth. I don’t doubt that mum knew exactly what was going on but played along because it was such fun. A clue regarding the real Jeremy Bamber, his crimes and how he gets his kicks maybe?

Christmas celebrations in prison were once upon a time quite jolly affairs with the wings being decorated and a tree would go up too. Prisons still put up trees and decorate the wings. He's lying by stating otherwise. The food from the hotplate/server would be a bit different and appropriately festive. All prisoners are still offered a Christmas dinner (which includes half a chicken). More lies from Jeremy Bamber! We’d even be given little treats like a chocolate bar, a can of pop and a tangerine. This still happens, mainly between inmates. Perhaps we’d put on a play and there would be various Christmas competitions where small prizes could be won. This still happens. He's lying again! This sort of Christmas fun had almost completely disappeared by the end of the 1990’s for various reasons including cost cutting. He's lying!
 
Christmas is now seen as just another day in prison, a milestone to be ticked as one less Christmas to do before the sentence is over. That does not apply to me. Beware. He's lying in order to seek pity!

I just feel blessed that I’ve stayed alive to see another Christmas pass knowing that this Christmas day I’m about to spend in jail could and should be the last one that I have to endure in here. It is such an odd feeling to think that I’ve endured 30 Christmas days but the facts now show that I should not have spent a single Christmas in prison.

I would like to wish all of my friends and supporters a happy Christmas in person and maybe next year I will be in a position to do this, I hope so. I’m going to stop here as it’s making me a bit depressed. Seeking pity. He's got nothing else to say and is more than likely bored of writing now. This is a classic way of how a prisoner ends a letter.

All the best for Christmas and New Year.


Jeremy
http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Christmas%20Messages


Title: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 02, 2016, 01:10:PM
Clearing up the myths - and Jeremy Bamber's lies - regarding Christmas in prison

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/christmas-time-in-prison-clearing-up-the-myths-9944302.html

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cardiff-prisons-christmas-dinner-menu-6467855
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play
Post by: Stephanie on December 02, 2016, 01:38:PM
"Arrogant & overconfident people may seek attention because they have the feeling that they deserve to be in the center of attention. Because they aren’t mature enough they still think with their inner child’s mentality which makes them believe that they are the center of the world.

Usually the child thinks that he is the center of the universe around which all other objects revolve. If the child’s way of thinking didn’t mature he will grow up thinking that he is the center of the world and so he will be an attention seeking adult.

Narcissists are also attention seekers. They consider this attention a good source of narcissistic supply and so they strive to get it. If you ignored a narcissist he will definitely hate you especially if he was hoping to get some attention from you.http://www.2knowmyself.com/Attention_seeker_psychology/attention_seeking_behaviour_personality
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 02, 2016, 01:53:PM
Tip-off trait of a sociopath - Look for the pity play

Is there any mannerism, any type of behavior, any use of language, that can identify a sociopath?

According to Martha Stout, Ph.D., author of The Sociopath Next Door*, the best clue that you are dealing with a sociopath is the pity play.

“The most reliable sign, the most universal behavior of unscrupulous people is not directed, as one might imagine, at our fearfulness,” Stout says. “It is, perversely, an appeal to our sympathy.”


http://www.lovefraud.com/beware-the-sociopath/how-to-spot-a-con/the-pity-play/

Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: David1819 on December 02, 2016, 02:09:PM
Now lets clear up the myth you are trying to construct.

(https://s14.postimg.org/trjgx69xd/egan.jpg)

Once again you put the cart before the horse  ::)
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Steve_uk on December 02, 2016, 08:04:PM
Jeremy has blogged about Christmas before. In fact I believe it's just about the only time of year when he did feel some lessening of pressure of expectation as a child as June herself relaxed somewhat and her son picked up the vibes.  http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/a-christmas-of-less-liberty.html
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 02, 2016, 09:08:PM
Now lets clear up the myth you are trying to construct.

(https://s14.postimg.org/trjgx69xd/egan.jpg)

Once again you put the cart before the horse  ::)

No David, I've not put the cart before the horse..

I have already replied to you with regards Professor Egan and my beliefs regarding this.

Jeremy Bamber has cherry picked this information in order to fool his supporters. No expert is infallible, as you well know. If the experts weren't infallible you would not be arguing for innocence. Your own theories regarding innocence would have to go against expert opinion. So I'm unsure why you keep trying to push this as fact?

A psychopathy test is very involved and any conclusions would be far longer than one measly paragrapth. If Jeremy Bamber is not a psychopath he would have no problem putting into the public domain his psychology reports.

I have first hand experience of experts like Professor Egan being wrong in their judgement, therefore I will continue to dispute this as an error in judgement.

SH did not appear as angry, alienated, impulsive and out of control until 2013. He managed to keep up the pretense of 'normality' for over 12 years.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 02, 2016, 09:11:PM
Jeremy has blogged about Christmas before. In fact I believe it's just about the only time of year when he did feel some lessening of pressure of expectation as a child as June herself relaxed somewhat and her son picked up the vibes.  http://jeremybamber.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/a-christmas-of-less-liberty.html

My mistake - yes he did Steve and I remember reading it. I'm just scanning it now.

Thanks for the reminder.

Amazing isn't it Steve?

From this in 2012:

“I wanted to share with you some small snapshots from my memories of Christmas time. The fun started from when we got the tree. We were never organized as Dad just liked to wing it and stop and buy trees from the road side. It had to be big; the lounge had such high ceilings and it was a running joke to see just how ridiculously huge a tree Dad would get. Dad loved to get that reaction from anyone visiting at the sight of a 14-foot pine tree that took up a quarter of the room. It was just amusement to Dad, and so, me too - it was just so over the top and great fun. It was like lots of little family rituals with Dad at Christmas. He wouldn’t get a single Christmas present until Christmas eve – Mum did all the main present buying and she used to think about it and make really good choices but, to Dad, leaving it to the last minute was all part of the fun. He had this special Christmas carrier bag which was about the size of a duvet cover with handles, and I could get into it easily; well that came out every Christmas Eve and Dad and I would go to Colchester in the morning and the woo-hoo adventure of it with a visit to Ipswich in the afternoon.

Between us we’d choose things for all those people Dad wanted to give presents to, no lists or plans; we’d just go into the shops and look at stuff we liked, and decide who else might like it and get it for them.  Dad being a country farmer, and me just a little boy, we had no idea about what was fashionable or the latest thing to have and so we’d get caught up in the hype of promotions. We would see some guy chopping up carrots with some gadget or other and think that it would be perfect for Mum. Dad’s mission every year was to buy the biggest box of chocolates for sale that he could find, as that was his traditional gift for Mum who loved choccies. 

So by the end of the day on our shopping trip Dad’s Christmas carrier bag would be full and wrapped in the shop. Name tags often came off, but rather than unwrap them he’d guess what it was by feeling them and then he would stick the tags back on for who he thought each gift was for. Mostly it was right but it just added to the fun when someone opened a present to find a Lego kit as Gran did one year instead of a box of liquor chocolates that I had already got and at 5:30am when I found them in my Santa’s stocking, and fed them to our dog, Jasper, ’cos they tasted horrible.

I’d go shopping with Mum in Colchester from when I was little up until I was about 15. As I grew older, we would split up in town and then later we’d meet up outside Williams and Griffins at a set time and on our way back to the car we had to go past this beautiful cake shop and tea rooms. The window display was full of éclairs and all kinds of cream cakes and delicious chocolatey things - it was such a temptation and at Christmas it was just magical. So Mum would treat me to whatever I fancied and years later she told me about what I was like when I was little because Mum wasn’t just buying me a cake it was an excuse to have one as well. She said I was always excited about choosing something but I always chose a fresh crusty bread roll and butter, no jam, just a roll and butter and a glass of milk.  Looking back now and thinking of those happy times: this cake shop had its own coffee grinder and machine and it made the place smell lovely. I’m thinking about Mum getting the menu and reading out all the sticky treats and cakey things. She’d say “you’d like that, Jem” - trying to tempt me into getting something. I would always have this roll and butter, but sometimes she did tempt me into a banana split.

Every year, Sheila and I would do a Christmas raid on the presents underneath the tree this went on for a few years from when I was about 6 and Sheila about 10. She would come and get me out of bed and we would go down stairs in the middle of the night. Sheila would be the ‘lookout’ and, being the smallest I would sneak into the pile of presents. I would usually plunge into the presents right in the middle, trying not to disturb the pile too much. From there I would un-tape some of the presents and pull out chocolates from them and eat one or two passing some to Sheila. It was great fun - we would spend ages giggling and thinking that no one would ever know we had been in the middle of the presents eating the chocolates. Sheila would pull me out of the pile by my legs when I was done and we would both have chocolate all around our faces, go back to bed and come down in the morning like it with bits of tinsel and pine needles in our hair. Looking back, it must have been so obvious that we had been eating chocolates from our Christmas raid in the night but we really thought Mum and Dad didn’t notice. The best memories of Sheila and Christmas were the times we spent together decorating the tree. Sheila was very artistic and loved to put the decorations on carefully and the tree would look simply magnificent, even if we did have to put the baubles quite high because our cat, Thomas, would get hold of them.

I just remember Christmas as such a happy time that was full of love and laughs and the family’s running jokes, like the over-sized Christmas tree, and one or two family members getting inappropriately drunk. But these memories are all long ago, happy memories. I miss them all: Gran and Granddad, Mum and Dad, Sheila, Daniel and Nicholas – who I can never share Christmas with again. I thought the world of my Sister Sheila, we can never share the laughter of those times or any memories of our childhood together now.

So what of the future and, perhaps, others to share fun Christmases with? For me to carry on in Dad’s footsteps, with an over large Christmas tree, and all our silly running jokes; or will it be another 30 or 40 more Christmases in here with one slice of processed turkey

Hang on - 2 years later he's telling a differing story? As I've already stated, most prisoners canteen menu includes the choice of half a chicken.

 and the prospect of the onset of dementia; having my canteen purchases bullied off me ’cos I will be too old to stick up for myself and too forgetful to remember that someone has robbed me. I don’t want to endure really old age in a maximum security prison, with nobody to help me make my bed or dress me or help me eat, and not being able to take care of myself - living many harrowing years of shuffling about, not even knowing where I am or how I ended up in here.

Here's (Above) the pity play, attempting to get sympathy from his readers.

This will be my 28th Christmas at Her Majesty’s Pleasure, and being locked up for 15-and-a-half hours a day over most of the Christmas period is just horrible. The idea of having endured 27 already with another 28 or so to go, when I’ve proven over and over again that I didn’t murder my family and couldn’t have done is soul destroying.  My alibi has been kept hidden from the trial, two appeals, three police enquiries, countless IPCC complaints and enquiries and a total of 14 years investigating by the CCRC and yet no one has uncovered the evidence which we now have. The past year has shown everyone how many high-profile cases of police corruption have gone un-investigated, how police have ignored the pleas of innocent people to help them, how police have taken payments from journalists, and how public bodies frequently cover up the negligence and corruption which is virulent in the UK today and adds to the needless suffering of those who justice is supposed to protect.

I could not continue to fight for justice and freedom without the support and love of the friends around me on the outside. Everyone who writes a letter to me adds to my strength to carry on until the truth sets me free.

Thank you for sharing a part of your lives with me, and I hope that I have shared a part of me that makes you know that our cause is worthwhile. When I am home, my fight won’t end because I will work towards preventing the suffering of other people wrongly convicted and also to bring better healthcare and support to the families of those who struggle with mental illness.”

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

Jeremy

21st December 2012
Posted by Jeremy Bamber



To stating only 2 years later (2014):

"Firstly, and I find this very hard to even admit, as each year passes I’m finding it harder to recall emotional memories of how it was outside during this festive period. I’d always believed those feelings of such intense happiness that I had experienced celebrating Christmas at home would remain with me, but sadly, as I grow old in prison so the memories have begun to fade.

Secondly, these fading memories make me feel ashamed as if I’m letting down my deceased family in some way.

It seems odd to say this, and I’m not sure if I can put this into words properly—It’s as if somehow my fading memories of Christmas can be explained by saying they cannot have been as happy as I have portrayed them to be.



Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: David1819 on December 02, 2016, 09:33:PM
Jeremy Bamber has cherry picked this information in order to fool his supporters.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.


Your own theories regarding innocence would have to go against expert opinion. So I'm unsure why you keep trying to push this as fact?

My theories are supported by experts, Even Sheila being alive while Jeremy is outside in company of the police. 

SH did not appear as angry, alienated, impulsive and out of control until 2013. He managed to keep up the pretense of 'normality' for over 12 years.

JB is not SH and SH is not a benchmark for every prisoner that protests innocence.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 02, 2016, 09:42:PM
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.


My theories are supported by experts, Even Sheila being alive while Jeremy is outside in company of the police. 

JB is not SH and SH is not a benchmark for every prisoner that protests innocence.

Why are you quoting Hitchens Razor? I am not making assertions without evidence! I have in depth knowledge and experience of disordered individuals and I have supported my posts. You are just choosing to ignore them with an inappropriate quote and because your bias blinds you.

What expert has now said Sheila was alive while Jeremy was outside?  ::)

I have not used SH as a benchmark. I always believed Bamber was guilty. 

Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 02, 2016, 09:54:PM
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.





I'm going off topic but "Hitchens assertion that anything which has no evidence can be dismissed without evidence, does not provide evidence to prove its own validity. Thus making his own statement dismissible within the rules of his own assertion http://atheism-analyzed.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/the-ignominy-of-hitchens-razor-failure.html

Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 02, 2016, 10:04:PM
No David, I've not put the cart before the horse..

I have already replied to you with regards Professor Egan and my beliefs regarding this.

Jeremy Bamber has cherry picked this information in order to fool his supporters. No expert is infallible, as you well know. If the experts weren't infallible you would not be arguing for innocence. Your own theories regarding innocence would have to go against expert opinion. So I'm unsure why you keep trying to push this as fact?

A psychopathy test is very involved and any conclusions would be far longer than one measly paragrapth. If Jeremy Bamber is not a psychopath he would have no problem putting into the public domain his psychology reports.

I have first hand experience of experts like Professor Egan being wrong in their judgement, therefore I will continue to dispute this as an error in judgement.

SH did not appear as angry, alienated, impulsive and out of control until 2013. He managed to keep up the pretense of 'normality' for over 12 years.

Hartley also made a valid point regarding Bambers psychological tests here http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7489.msg353159.html#msg353159
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: David1819 on December 02, 2016, 10:56:PM
Why are you quoting Hitchens Razor? I am not making assertions without evidence! I have in depth knowledge and experience of disordered individuals and I have supported my posts. You are just choosing to ignore them with an inappropriate quote and because your bias blinds you.

Your assertions are based on your perceived oddities in his writings about Christmas. So yes you are making assertions without evidence.

I have said before that Jeremy's personality does him no favours. I quote myself.
If JB is innocent it's safe to say his personality has let him down.

This area is nothing new to me.  Damien Echols, Barry George and Amanda Knox done themselves no favours either however the evidence all points away from them despite their seemingly odd or perceived incriminating behaviour.


What expert has now said Sheila was alive while Jeremy was outside?  ::)

Professor Marco Meloni and a Professor Cavalli, who expressed the view, based on the photographs, that Sheila had died no more than two hours before the time of the photographs or PC Woodcock's description of the leaking blood; this would place her death during the period Bamber was standing outside the house with the police.

I have uploaded the documents on here before.

I have not used SH as a benchmark. I always believed Bamber was guilty.

Yes. However you are quick to compare the two and imply similarities.

I don't think we will ever see eye to eye on Bamber. Like I said before I find Jeremy does himself no favours and people who have met him have said he is "creepy" and that's not typical of psychopaths. they appear normal and friendly.

If you want to see a charming psychopath look further than Daniel Wozniak. I found this fascinating.
https://youtu.be/RjQHkxn0d6Q?t=26m29s (https://youtu.be/RjQHkxn0d6Q?t=26m29s)

Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 02, 2016, 11:43:PM
Your assertions are based on your perceived oddities in his writings about Christmas. So yes you are making assertions without evidence.

I have said before that Jeremy's personality does him no favours. I quote myself.
This area is nothing new to me.  Damien Echols, Barry George and Amanda Knox done themselves no favours either however the evidence all points away from them despite their seemingly odd or perceived incriminating behaviour.


Professor Marco Meloni and a Professor Cavalli, who expressed the view, based on the photographs, that Sheila had died no more than two hours before the time of the photographs or PC Woodcock's description of the leaking blood; this would place her death during the period Bamber was standing outside the house with the police.

I have uploaded the documents on here before.

Yes. However you are quick to compare the two and imply similarities.

I don't think we will ever see eye to eye on Bamber. Like I said before I find Jeremy does himself no favours and people who have met him have said he is "creepy" and that's not typical of psychopaths. they appear normal and friendly.

If you want to see a charming psychopath look further than Daniel Wozniak. I found this fascinating.
https://youtu.be/RjQHkxn0d6Q?t=26m29s (https://youtu.be/RjQHkxn0d6Q?t=26m29s)

You are being blinkered if you think I am referring to his Christmas blogs alone.

It doesn't matter if we don't see eye to eye but from my point of view you have yet to put anything forward in order to support his claims of innocence.

Psychopaths come in all shapes and sizes. Some are intelligent, others aren't. Some appear charming, some don't. Some psychopaths are also very creepy and not all psychopaths appear 'normal' or friendly..

Btw - Barry George is not a psychopath, he has asperger syndrome.

I agree with posters who have previously commented on your theories regarding Marco Meloni http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7494.msg353335.html#msg353335 and dismissed them.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6955.0.html

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6894.msg321572.html#msg321572

Scipio makes valid points here regarding Meloni and Cavalli
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5535.msg242509.html#msg242509

"Neither is in the field of analyzing dead bodies let alone assesing time of death period let alone based on photos.  Nor does such have anything even remotely at all do do with their fields.

Having doctors look at photos to try to see it they see signs of rigor or the evaluate the hue of blood is not an accepted scinetifically valid way to assess time of death. Hence they engaged in quackery.

Worse still, they also relied in part on bogus representations mad eot them that the blood coming from Sheila's mouth in the photos provided to them was wet.  Dr Craig stated such blood was dry.  So though the blood was dry in the photos they believed it was wet.  That right there means their supposed skill is worthless because they thought blood detemrined to be dry was wet.

Worst yet I showed the image of Sheila's face to someone with a MD degree who handles wrongful death and other malpractice cases. He noted that she appears to be grimacing in the photo and her eyelids could reflect rigor.  He said that more would be necessary to decide whether she had rigor or not but the photo had signs that could be and that it would be wrong to sy she had no signs that could be rigor.

In all medical evlauations second opinions are critical but isn't it funny how the only peopel who came out to support the defense were Italians with no expertise at all in the issue at hand hired by a fake lawyer who misrepresented that the blood on her mouth was wet and these doctors fell for it and believed the photos supported the blood was wet though the doctor who saw her in person and pronounced her dead before such photos were taken said it was dry. 

The people who need to STFU are those trying to pretend these evaluations were scientifically valid and could be relied upon for anything.  The courts consider them worthless as does any objective, informed person with half a brain.


Scipio also posts:

"The problems are:

1) Woodcock didn't mean the blood was actively coming out and wet that is just intentionally being misinterpreted as such

2) there is no way to assess time of death just based on how someone looks in a photo.  Their speculation was rejected by other experts

3) it is impossible for her to have killed herself

4) no one heard anything like they would have had the gun been fired while they were outside
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play
Post by: Stephanie on December 03, 2016, 12:03:PM
Clearing up the myths - and Jeremy Bamber's lies - regarding Christmas in prison

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/christmas-time-in-prison-clearing-up-the-myths-9944302.html

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cardiff-prisons-christmas-dinner-menu-6467855

I should add, this thread should not be taken literally. The myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies can be seen in all his blogs, police interviews, letters, telephone interviews and all other communication. It can also be seen in the way in which he gaslights his supporters.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Caroline on December 03, 2016, 03:42:PM
You are being blinkered if you think I am referring to his Christmas blogs alone.

It doesn't matter if we don't see eye to eye but from my point of view you have yet to put anything forward in order to support his claims of innocence.

Psychopaths come in all shapes and sizes. Some are intelligent, others aren't. Some appear charming, some don't. Some psychopaths are also very creepy and not all psychopaths appear 'normal' or friendly..

Btw - Barry George is not a psychopath, he has asperger syndrome.

I agree with posters who have previously commented on your theories regarding Marco Meloni http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7494.msg353335.html#msg353335 and dismissed them.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6955.0.html

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6894.msg321572.html#msg321572

Scipio makes valid points here regarding Meloni and Cavalli
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5535.msg242509.html#msg242509

"Neither is in the field of analyzing dead bodies let alone assesing time of death period let alone based on photos.  Nor does such have anything even remotely at all do do with their fields.

Having doctors look at photos to try to see it they see signs of rigor or the evaluate the hue of blood is not an accepted scinetifically valid way to assess time of death. Hence they engaged in quackery.

Worse still, they also relied in part on bogus representations mad eot them that the blood coming from Sheila's mouth in the photos provided to them was wet.  Dr Craig stated such blood was dry.  So though the blood was dry in the photos they believed it was wet.  That right there means their supposed skill is worthless because they thought blood detemrined to be dry was wet.

Worst yet I showed the image of Sheila's face to someone with a MD degree who handles wrongful death and other malpractice cases. He noted that she appears to be grimacing in the photo and her eyelids could reflect rigor.  He said that more would be necessary to decide whether she had rigor or not but the photo had signs that could be and that it would be wrong to sy she had no signs that could be rigor.

In all medical evlauations second opinions are critical but isn't it funny how the only peopel who came out to support the defense were Italians with no expertise at all in the issue at hand hired by a fake lawyer who misrepresented that the blood on her mouth was wet and these doctors fell for it and believed the photos supported the blood was wet though the doctor who saw her in person and pronounced her dead before such photos were taken said it was dry. 

The people who need to STFU are those trying to pretend these evaluations were scientifically valid and could be relied upon for anything.  The courts consider them worthless as does any objective, informed person with half a brain.


Scipio also posts:

"The problems are:

1) Woodcock didn't mean the blood was actively coming out and wet that is just intentionally being misinterpreted as such

2) there is no way to assess time of death just based on how someone looks in a photo.  Their speculation was rejected by other experts

3) it is impossible for her to have killed herself

4) no one heard anything like they would have had the gun been fired while they were outside


Hi Steph,

There is a clear deliberate attempt to ignore the facts in order to try and bring Sheila back to life at a time when Jeremy was outside the farmhouse with the police. However, when can see through the smoke screen, you come to realise that Sheila had been dead for some time.

Firstly, the following picture of Sheila - note the dried, almost black, cracked blood which had once flowed from her mouth, but quite some time before this picture was taken. Note also the mottled marks on her face, also indicative of death having occurred quite some time before the picture.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=39391)

Secondly, Dr Craig pronounced death for Sheila at 08:44 and noted that the blood around her mouth was dried (see below).  Woodcock would have seen the body of Sheila Caffell only an hour earlier, are we really expected to believe that wet flowing blood was able to completely dry, in just one hour?

The picture which supposedly shows blood flowing from Sheila's neck wounds, is clearly enhanced which is why her face has been edited out of the picture - it is at odds with the dried blood around her mouth. It is an edited version of the above picture and as we know from Dr Craig, quite some time BEFORE the CS pictures were taken, the blood around Sheila's mouth was dried - blowing the myth that the blood was flowing right out of the water.



Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: David1819 on December 03, 2016, 04:14:PM
Hi Steph,

There is a clear deliberate attempt to ignore the facts in order to try and bring Sheila back to life at a time when Jeremy was outside the farmhouse with the police. However, when can see through the smoke screen, you come to realise that Sheila had been dead for some time.

Firstly, the following picture of Sheila - note the dried, almost black, cracked blood which had once flowed from her mouth, but quite some time before this picture was taken. Note also the mottled marks on her face, also indicative of death having occurred quite some time before the picture.

Secondly, Dr Craig pronounced death for Sheila at 08:44 and noted that the blood around her mouth was dried (see below).  Woodcock would have seen the body of Sheila Caffell only an hour earlier, are we really expected to believe that wet flowing blood was able to completely dry, in just one hour?

The picture which supposedly shows blood flowing from Sheila's neck wounds, is clearly enhanced which is why her face has been edited out of the picture - it is at odds with the dried blood around her mouth. It is an edited version of the above picture and as we know from Dr Craig, quite some time BEFORE the CS pictures were taken, the blood around Sheila's mouth was dried - blowing the myth that the blood was flowing right out of the water.

The only deliberate attempt to ignore the facts is you using a poorly taken photograph of a photograph  that Mike took, Then deluding yourself into thinking the genuine Kodacolor film strips are now forgeries.

Your happy to quote Dr Craig (who fails to spot two gunshot wounds) But you ignore PC Woodcock. Your quick to distract everyone by pointing out a coagulated stream of blood on Sheila's cheek. But you wont go near the issue of post mortem hypostasis. Indeed Caroline a clear deliberate attempt to ignore the facts.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 03, 2016, 04:26:PM
Hi Steph,

There is a clear deliberate attempt to ignore the facts in order to try and bring Sheila back to life at a time when Jeremy was outside the farmhouse with the police. However, when can see through the smoke screen, you come to realise that Sheila had been dead for some time.

Firstly, the following picture of Sheila - note the dried, almost black, cracked blood which had once flowed from her mouth, but quite some time before this picture was taken. Note also the mottled marks on her face, also indicative of death having occurred quite some time before the picture.
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=39391)

Secondly, Dr Craig pronounced death for Sheila at 08:44 and noted that the blood around her mouth was dried (see below).  Woodcock would have seen the body of Sheila Caffell only an hour earlier, are we really expected to believe that wet flowing blood was able to completely dry, in just one hour?

The picture which supposedly shows blood flowing from Sheila's neck wounds, is clearly enhanced which is why her face has been edited out of the picture - it is at odds with the dried blood around her mouth. It is an edited version of the above picture and as we know from Dr Craig, quite some time BEFORE the CS pictures were taken, the blood around Sheila's mouth was dried - blowing the myth that the blood was flowing right out of the water.

Hi Caroline,

I totally agree. I've read all of the links in detail and cannot undersand why David is blaming Mike for the way he has taken the photos? Mike didn't take any photos!

The blood around the mouth is clearly dried and sadly the eyelids and grimace of the mouth do indeed suggest Sheila has been deceased for some quite.

I also agree with Scipio with regards the wording in the statements and how this has been misinterpreted in order to misrepresent the evidence.


Scipio posts:
"In all medical evlauations second opinions are critical but isn't it funny how the only peopel who came out to support the defense were Italians with no expertise at all in the issue at hand hired by a fake lawyer who misrepresented that the blood on her mouth was wet and these doctors fell for it and believed the photos supported the blood was wet though the doctor who saw her in person and pronounced her dead before such photos were taken said it was dry.

"Even Jeremy's own experts concede that her body was moved while her blood was wet and this changed the blood flow.

This is an acknowledgment someone else moved her shortly after she died.  The only way the police could have caused such would be if she died not that long before the police went in.

If police didn't do it then it means someone else was there to move her who fled the murder scene which supports her being murdered.

This is not simply a case where believing police did it helps establish Jeremy is innocent. On the flip side diehard Jeremy supporters are wed to this because they recognize if police didn't cause the blood flow changes then it means Jeremy did.

The argument is made out of necessity. The problem for the defense is that the evidence doesn't support it. To try pretending there is evidence to support it you have them seizing upon Woodcock's sloppy wording which gives the false impression he saw her actively bleeding and then the claim the photos suggest the blood was still wet. These kinds of things can fool gullible people or people who want to believe it.  But to convince a court you need Woodcock and other police to say they saw active bleeding and that her body was seated when they saw her so someone must have moved her flat. That would actually be evidence that supports their contentions.  They don't have this only suggestions her hand was moved and the gun was moved but they use such movements to try to give the impression police could have moved her flat. Since they moved her hands and the gun maybe they moved her body in more ways the argument goes but speculation of this nature has no chance in accomplishing anything in court particularly in an appeal setting.


"1) Woodcock didn't mean the blood was actively coming out and wet that is just intentionally being misinterpreted as such

2) there is no way to assess time of death just based on how someone looks in a photo.  Their speculation was rejected by other experts

3) it is impossible for her to have killed herself

4) no one heard anything like they would have had the gun been fired while they were outside


"There was only one one person taking photos.  He took photos of her body before and after the gun was removed.  The blood was dry before any photos were taken. The blood was drying when police entered and was still dry when Dr Craig declared her dead.  Woodcock was careless in his choice of words he didn't mean blood was actively flowing from her wounds. He described blood "flowing from her mouth" because he didn't know a better way to describe the blood stains on the sides of her mouth.

So their entire premise was based upon a crock.

One of Leon MacDonnell's assessments was also based on a crock.  he misunderstood and though the murder weapon was found not anywhere near her body and then used this erroneous belief as a ground to say Sheila was murdered.  When experts operate from erroneous facts they make erroneous assessments.


"I just noticed a typo and will leave it to illustrate a point.  I meant to type dry not "drying".  I though I did type dry.  This shows how easy it is to write something you didn't intend without even realizing it.  his is little different than Woodcock writing leaking when he meant had leaked.


I feel sorry for those people in the campaign team who have yet to establish these facts and have yet to realise they are being conned.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 03, 2016, 05:04:PM
The only deliberate attempt to ignore the facts is you using a poorly taken photograph of a photograph  that Mike took, Then deluding yourself into thinking the genuine Kodacolor film strips are now forgeries.

Your happy to quote Dr Craig (who fails to spot two gunshot wounds) But you ignore PC Woodcock. Your quick to distract everyone by pointing out a coagulated stream of blood on Sheila's cheek. But you wont go near the issue of post mortem hypostasis. Indeed Caroline a clear deliberate attempt to ignore the facts.

Hi David,

If you read through all the posts of the above links (In my post above Caroline's) you will also see further posts by Caroline, and indeed yourself, where she has disputed your presentations and backed these up with detailed evidence.

I cannot see how you have drawn the conclusion Caroline is deliberately attempting to ignore the facts - she hasn't! It does appear you are doing what you are suggesting others are doing?
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Caroline on December 03, 2016, 07:28:PM
Hi David,

If you read through all the posts of the above links (In my post above Caroline's) you will also see further posts by Caroline, and indeed yourself, where she has disputed your presentations and backed these up with detailed evidence.

I cannot see how you have drawn the conclusion Caroline is deliberately attempting to ignore the facts - she hasn't! It does appear you are doing what you are suggesting others are doing?

I posted facts - Craig described the blood around Sheila's mouth as 'dried'. The blood around Sheila's mouth is dried but some people are in denial and claiming to have access to original material to bolster their nonsense. I don't ignore the facts, I ignore people who try and pull the wool and I am (for the record) certainly ignoring David and his obsession.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: David1819 on December 04, 2016, 10:22:AM
I posted facts - Craig described the blood around Sheila's mouth as 'dried'. The blood around Sheila's mouth is dried but some people are in denial and claiming to have access to original material to bolster their nonsense. I don't ignore the facts, I ignore people who try and pull the wool and I am (for the record) certainly ignoring David and his obsession.

xxxxxxxxx Caroline is at it again. The only one making clear deliberate attempt to ignore the facts is none other than yourself.

For example

The other day you tried to fool people into thinking the Scotsman was another man by the name of Mcdonald. Because you realise the significance of "(a man called Mcdonald?)" brought up in conversation between Robert Boutflour and The Police several weeks before Julie came forward implicating Mathew Mcdonald.
(https://s11.postimg.org/6gqs93ulv/lying2.jpg)

Turns out his name was Hector Maclean. - deliberate attempt to ignore the facts  ::)
(https://s11.postimg.org/o82enka0j/lying3.jpg)


I shall also take this opportunity to expose another one of your deliberate attempts to ignore the facts.

It's a utter joke to believe that is Sheila's foot.

(https://s15.postimg.org/ew1k7dyq3/feetcompare.jpg)

defo June's foot but Andrew Hunter claimed it was Sheila's.

(https://s15.postimg.org/6gbzpvvuz/feetcompare3.jpg)

But they are not Sheila's wherever they were taken.

(https://s15.postimg.org/j6g82z3t7/feetcompare2.jpg)

I don't care what you mention to who - the picture is clearly NOT Sheila's foot.

No one is trying to manipulate anyone!

(http://media.giphy.com/media/CoDp6NnSmItoY/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Caroline on December 04, 2016, 12:51:PM
xxxxxxxxx Caroline is at it again. The only one making clear deliberate attempt to ignore the facts is none other than yourself.

For example

The other day you tried to fool people into thinking the Scotsman was another man by the name of Mcdonald. Because you realise the significance of "(a man called Mcdonald?)" brought up in conversation between Robert Boutflour and The Police several weeks before Julie came forward implicating Mathew Mcdonald.
(https://s11.postimg.org/6gqs93ulv/lying2.jpg)

Turns out his name was Hector Maclean. - deliberate attempt to ignore the facts  ::)
(https://s11.postimg.org/o82enka0j/lying3.jpg)


I shall also take this opportunity to expose another one of your deliberate attempts to ignore the facts.

(https://s15.postimg.org/ew1k7dyq3/feetcompare.jpg)

(https://s15.postimg.org/6gbzpvvuz/feetcompare3.jpg)

(https://s15.postimg.org/j6g82z3t7/feetcompare2.jpg)

(http://media.giphy.com/media/CoDp6NnSmItoY/giphy.gif)

Ha, ha! What does one have to do with the other? Firstly, I didn't know the name of the guy in Scotland but it certainly wasn't MacDonald and the two names are similar for someone to be mistaken. You jumped the gun once again and scream conspiracy over the smallest detail because you're (by your own admission) OBSESSED!

As far as the foot is concerned, so what if it's Sheila's? There are a few spots of blood - big deal. What you and your stupid mocking little gif files don't realise is that I don't care about being wrong. I've been wrong before when I thought Bamber was innocent. It's no biggy  ;)

Clearly you DO have a clearer picture of Sheila's body (see, no problem being wrong) so why not post her face and neck so we can see if the 'enhanced' picture is genuine and how that fairs against the dried, cracked blood around Sheila's mouth. The foot tells us nothing but you could put your money where your mouth is and may even convert a few people!
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 04, 2016, 02:06:PM
Clearly you DO have a clearer picture of Sheila's body (see, no problem being wrong) so why not post her face and neck so we can see if the 'enhanced' picture is genuine and how that fairs against the dried, cracked blood around Sheila's mouth. The foot tells us nothing but you could put your money where your mouth is and may even convert a few people!

I'm not up to speed in relation to David having other photos. However, if anyone (Not just David) has any evidence they believe can clear Bamber, then they would surely want it seen by the public?

If there are any photographs that would cast doubt on Bambers guilt, why doesn't he put them in the public domain himself? After 31 years, surely he would do anything to get out now?
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Caroline on December 04, 2016, 04:30:PM
I'm not up to speed in relation to David having other photos. However, if anyone (Not just David) has any evidence they believe can clear Bamber, then they would surely want it seen by the public?

If there are any photographs that would cast doubt on Bambers guilt, why doesn't he put them in the public domain himself? After 31 years, surely he would do anything to get out now?

This true, if the picture shows blood running from her throat whilst the blood around her mouth doesn't look black and cracked, then that is clearly an issue - if not .........
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 04, 2016, 05:29:PM
This true, if the picture shows blood running from her throat whilst the blood around her mouth doesn't look black and cracked, then that is clearly an issue - if not .........

No such photos exist! That's the bottom line.

Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 05, 2016, 05:38:PM
It would make more sense it being June's foot on our right of the picture, as her footprint was seen among the spots of blood on the carpet,not Sheila's which is clearly longer in length.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: David1819 on December 05, 2016, 07:15:PM
Ha, ha! What does one have to do with the other? Firstly, I didn't know the name of the guy in Scotland but it certainly wasn't MacDonald

Then why did you claim "its not the same McDonald" implying his name was Mcdonald if you never knew his name in the first place? because you were making things up.

As far as the foot is concerned, so what if it's Sheila's? There are a few spots of blood - big deal. What you and your stupid mocking little gif files don't realise is that I don't care about being wrong. I've been wrong before when I thought Bamber was innocent. It's no biggy  ;)

You were correct when you thought Bamber was innocent you are wrong at present and you know it but like you say "It's no biggy"  ::)


Clearly you DO have a clearer picture of Sheila's body (see, no problem being wrong) so why not post her face and neck so we can see if the 'enhanced' picture is genuine and how that fairs against the dried, cracked blood around Sheila's mouth. The foot tells us nothing but you could put your money where your mouth is and may even convert a few people!

Who said I have no plans not to? I may well post it but I find that giving someone a reality check is best when they least expect it and don't see it coming. Like a big random slap on the face, don't you think?

You haven't got any pictures!

you invented having access to official crime scene pictures - pathetic!

you can't post what you haven't got and all this 'you can't trick me into posting them' is just more bluff. You know and I know it. Anyone who believes you needs to have a serious word with themselves!

(http://new1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Huey+and+louie+_9b4d1e2c9e661fc1fae6f6d11c66d2e6.gif)
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Caroline on December 05, 2016, 07:53:PM
Then why did you claim "its not the same McDonald" implying his name was Mcdonald if you never knew his name in the first place? because you were making things up.

Had his name been McDonald, it OBVIOUSLY wasn't the same person. Any idiot can see that there would be no point in posting drugs to a Scottish address for a person who lives around the corner. You were so desperate to have RB mention McDonald you just didn't think it through! Turns out it wasn't McDonald, just RB getting thr name wrong!!

It's NOT the same McDonald, or are you trying to suggest it is?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You were correct when you thought Bamber was innocent you are wrong at present and you know it but like you say "It's no biggy"  ::)

No, I was wrong, just like like you are now.


Who said I have no plans not to? I may well post it but I find that giving someone a reality check is best when they least expect it and don't see it coming. Like a big random slap on the face, don't you think?

So p*** or get off the pot! Sorry to disappoint you David, I haven't had a reality check or a slap in the face. I think you're a pathetic little worm and as such, don't enter into my thinking. You're obsession with Bamber seems to dominate your every breath to the point where you're now believing you actually matter to me? Reality check? You certainly need one!



Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: David1819 on December 06, 2016, 10:45:AM
Had his name been McDonald, it OBVIOUSLY wasn't the same person. Any idiot can see that there would be no point in posting drugs to a Scottish address for a person who lives around the corner. You were so desperate to have RB mention McDonald you just didn't think it through! Turns out it wasn't McDonald, just RB getting thr name wrong!!

It's NOT the same McDonald, or are you trying to suggest it is?

Don't try to manipulate me Caroline, your connivance only works on those with an IQ below room temperature. Those who go along the lines of "forensics is not my thing"

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Now the façade of smiley faces is being used once again. Awwww am I upsetting you? 

(http://i.pokeme.com/meme/img/00my.jpg)

Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Caroline on December 06, 2016, 12:15:PM
Don't try to manipulate me Caroline, your connivance only works on those with an IQ below room temperature. Those who go along the lines of "forensics is not my thing"

Now the façade of smiley faces is being used once again. Awwww am I upsetting you? 

(http://i.pokeme.com/meme/img/00my.jpg)

You're the biggest manipulator on this board David - either post the pictures or stop posting claims you can't back up. The claims that the Giovanni picture is genuine, sounds much the same as the picture of Sheila on the bed.

Now the facade of moronic gif files are being used once again. Awww, am I upsetting you?
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: David1819 on December 06, 2016, 01:30:PM
You're the biggest manipulator on this board David - either post the pictures or stop posting claims you can't back up. The claims that the Giovanni picture is genuine, sounds much the same as the picture of Sheila on the bed.

Now the facade of moronic gif files are being used once again. Awww, am I upsetting you?

Not upset but rather annoyed. Annoyed at -

A) wrongly accusing Andrew Hunter of misleading people of the photos of Sheila's feet.

B) wrongly accusing me of lying over access to the photos.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 06, 2016, 01:37:PM
Not upset but rather annoyed. Annoyed at -

A) wrongly accusing Andrew Hunter of misleading people of the photos of Sheila's feet.

B) wrongly accusing me of lying over access to the photos.

David, has Andrew Hunter said something to you in order for you to feel you need to say something on a public forum?

a) Yes

b) No

Here's the thing, if Andrew Hunter has photo's that he (and you?) thinks will clear Jeremy Bambers name and/or cast doubt, why hasn't he put them in the public domain? Why wait any longer? What's he waiting for? Another 31 years?

I'm not up to speed with the ins and outs of this however as an outside observer, surely even you can see why we are sceptical?



Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: David1819 on December 06, 2016, 02:04:PM
David, has Andrew Hunter said something to you in order for you to feel you need to say something on a public forum?

a) Yes

b) No

Ages ago Andrew Hunter released photos of Sheila's feet. Caroline was accusing him of lying. So I put the record straight on that.

I was also accused of lying also. So I put the record straight on that.

Here's the thing, if Andrew Hunter has photo's that he (and you?) thinks will clear Jeremy Bambers name and/or cast doubt, why hasn't he put them in the public domain? Why wait any longer? What's he waiting for? Another 31 years?

I'm not up to speed with the ins and outs of this however as an outside observer, surely even you can see why we are sceptical?

The photo has been in the public domain since 2005. Its been submitted to the CCRC but they just found excuses because the system is not going to admit to such an epic fail.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Caroline on December 06, 2016, 03:39:PM
Ages ago Andrew Hunter released photos of Sheila's feet. Caroline was accusing him of lying. So I put the record straight on that.

I was also accused of lying also. So I put the record straight on that.

The photo has been in the public domain since 2005. Its been submitted to the CCRC but they just found excuses because the system is not going to admit to such an epic fail.

Were did I accuse him of lying or misleading anyone? Get your facts right! http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7207.msg342035.html#msg342035

Until you post the picture you claim to have, your claims are no more credible than other claims made here in respect to Sheila on the bed.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 06, 2016, 04:10:PM
Ages ago Andrew Hunter released photos of Sheila's feet. Caroline was accusing him of lying. So I put the record straight on that.

I was also accused of lying also. So I put the record straight on that.

The photo has been in the public domain since 2005. Its been submitted to the CCRC but they just found excuses because the system is not going to admit to such an epic fail.

Were did I accuse him of lying or misleading anyone? Get your facts right! http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7207.msg342035.html#msg342035

Until you post the picture you claim to have, your claims are no more credible than other claims made here in respect to Sheila on the bed.

So there are no pictures then!
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Caroline on December 06, 2016, 04:57:PM
So there are no pictures then!

No idea, he seems to have pictures that aren't on this forum, but whether he has a picture that PROVES Sheila had blood 'running' from her neck wounds (which also includes her face), remains to be seen. If it existed, this would go a long way to support that Sheila hadn't been dead as long as the others and could sway the balance in the favour of innocence. Which is why I can't believe someone would sit on it - unless it was nothing like the build up they had given it.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 06, 2016, 05:11:PM
No idea, he seems to have pictures that aren't on this forum, but whether he has a picture that PROVES Sheila had blood 'running' from her neck wounds (which also includes her face), remains to be seen. If it existed, this would go a long way to support that Sheila hadn't been dead as long as the others and could sway the balance in the favour of innocence. Which is why I can't believe someone would sit on it - unless it was nothing like the build up they had given it.

It doesn't exist Caroline!

And even if a picture could support Sheila having not been dead as long as the other victims, the conclusion could be as simple as - she was murdered last.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Roch on December 06, 2016, 05:16:PM
I don't think any of the photos blown up at lab prior to the last CCRC application were/are allowed to be released in to the public domain.  Not sure if the alleged photo being discussed on here falls within that remit.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: David1819 on December 06, 2016, 05:29:PM
No idea, he seems to have pictures that aren't on this forum, but whether he has a picture that PROVES Sheila had blood 'running' from her neck wounds (which also includes her face), remains to be seen. If it existed, this would go a long way to support that Sheila hadn't been dead as long as the others and could sway the balance in the favour of innocence. Which is why I can't believe someone would sit on it - unless it was nothing like the build up they had given it.

I'm not sitting on anything new. Its nothing the CCRC does not already have or seen. It would not make any difference if I post it or not.

People claimed (without a shred of evidence) that the photo already available is a forgery.
I have no doubt that same would happen if another was posted.

Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 06, 2016, 05:32:PM
I don't think any of the photos blown up at lab prior to the last CCRC application were/are allowed to be released in to the public domain.  Not sure if the alleged photo being discussed on here falls within that remit.

That makes sense Roch.

And to save me from searching,  can you confirm the CCRC had possession of these and didn't think they were of any evidential value?
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 06, 2016, 05:34:PM
I'm not sitting on anything new. Its nothing the CCRC does not already have or seen. It would not make any difference if I post it or not.

People claimed (without a shred of evidence) that the photo already available is a forgery.
I have no doubt that same would happen if another was posted.

Thanks for clarifying David.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Roch on December 06, 2016, 05:38:PM
That makes sense Roch.

And to save me from searching,  can you confirm the CCRC had possession of these and didn't think they were of any evidential value?

From what I can recall, JB claimed that EP were "gutted" that the photos were released - as there was considerable evidential value contained within them.  The defence had a considerable and prolonged fight to obtain the photos.  Many prior excuses had been given as to why they could not be released or obtained.

However, I cannot say whether this would answer your query about the alleged photo that David and Caroline may be disagreeing on.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Caroline on December 06, 2016, 06:41:PM
I'm not sitting on anything new. Its nothing the CCRC does not already have or seen. It would not make any difference if I post it or not.

People claimed (without a shred of evidence) that the photo already available is a forgery.
I have no doubt that same would happen if another was posted.

If it doesn't include Sheila's face, I certainly wouldn't give it ANY credence.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 06, 2016, 07:38:PM
From what I can recall, JB claimed that EP were "gutted" that the photos were released - as there was considerable evidential value contained within them.  The defence had a considerable and prolonged fight to obtain the photos.  Many prior excuses had been given as to why they could not be released or obtained.

However, I cannot say whether this would answer your query about the alleged photo that David and Caroline may be disagreeing on.

I'm just talking about this picture 'A'. I don't believe that it hasn't been enhanced because it is at odds with picture B. I think A and B are the 'same' picture but a section has been lifted from B to make a new picture (A) and the red hue has been lifted to make the blood look fresher. The blood around Sheila's mouth is dried, blackened and cracked on picture - this point was confirmed by Dr Craig, who noted this when he pronounced death. She clearly had stopped bleeding long before Craig saw her, so how can fresh blood be flowing from her neck wounds when she was 'later' photographed by Bird? Picture B paints a very different picture but I believe a truer one.

A
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4317)
B
(http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=38629)
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: David1819 on December 06, 2016, 07:50:PM
Were did I accuse him of lying or misleading anyone? Get your facts right! http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7207.msg342035.html#msg342035

Yes you did.

defo June's foot but Andrew Hunter claimed it was Sheila's.

If the photo is "defo June's foot" and Andrew Hunter claimed its Sheila's your saying he is lying or he is stupid. Either way your wrong.

It's a utter joke to believe that is Sheila's foot.

Its an utter joke to take you seriously. You refuse to answer the question why you believe Jeremy is guilty nor do you provide any evidence to show that he is. But just make up nonsense like this  ???

Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: David1819 on December 06, 2016, 07:56:PM
If it doesn't include Sheila's face, I certainly wouldn't give it ANY credence.

If the hypostasis does not convince you nothing will. you are a lost cause.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Caroline on December 06, 2016, 08:01:PM
If the hypostasis does not convince you nothing will. you are a lost cause.

No it doesn't - there is discolouration on Sheila and the pitcure of June isn't clear and has a high red hue.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 06, 2016, 08:08:PM
While you're on about " high red hues ",were June's toenails painted ?
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: David1819 on December 06, 2016, 08:49:PM
No it doesn't - there is discolouration on Sheila and the pitcure of June isn't clear and has a high red hue.

You have never seen a clear accurate picture of Sheila's face. Mikes copies are so misleading in that respect. The skin is white/grey and the carpet is dark green/grey its like the photo was taken at night.

As for June she has to have PML otherwise that means she was also alive while Jeremy was outside.

(https://viewfromll2.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/lividity-timing-lit-review.png)
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Caroline on December 06, 2016, 09:01:PM
You have never seen a clear accurate picture of Sheila's face. Mikes copies are so misleading in that respect. The skin is white/grey and the carpet is dark green/grey its like the photo was taken at night.

As for June she has to have PML otherwise that means she was also alive while Jeremy was outside.

(https://viewfromll2.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/lividity-timing-lit-review.png)

Dead skin is white/grey and the blood is dried and cracked, it shows she had been dead for some time. Her skin is mottled on her face and also her legs. I didn't say that June didn't have livor mortis, I am saying that Sheila did also. Plus the times you have given are 'in general' and not set i stone.

There is no getting away from the dried cracked blood and the fact that Craig noted it. Sheila had been dead for some time.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: lebaleb on December 07, 2016, 07:37:AM
Dead skin is white/grey and the blood is dried and cracked, it shows she had been dead for some time. Her skin is mottled on her face and also her legs. I didn't say that June didn't have livor mortis, I am saying that Sheila did also. Plus the times you have given are 'in general' and not set i stone.

There is no getting away from the dried cracked blood and the fact that Craig noted it. Sheila had been dead for some time.

Photos were taken many hours after police arrived at the scene with Jeremy. Blood will dry quickly and crack. It's the body's way of closing a wound.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 07, 2016, 08:54:AM
Photos were taken many hours after police arrived at the scene with Jeremy. Blood will dry quickly and crack. It's the body's way of closing a wound.

What about the dead skin and mottling on her face and legs? How do you explain that?
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 07, 2016, 09:47:AM
The pallor that is evident is the first stage of death,therefore death had only occurred within two hours or even less,any " colour " visible would have been accelerated by her activity such as hurtling around the farmhouse shooting everyone. The more active a person before death,the quicker the onset of LM.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Caroline on December 07, 2016, 10:08:AM
What about the dead skin and mottling on her face and legs? How do you explain that?

Denial Steph, denial  ::)
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 07, 2016, 10:09:AM
Jeremy Bamber says in 2012:

"Imprisonment is nothing, but to live defeated and innocent is to die daily."

What a crock!

Here's what SH said..

"I died a little each day" https://therealmrshspoofblog.wordpress.com/2016/06/21/simon-hall-letters/

No he didn't! He went from strength to strength. I witnessed it with my own eyes.

These statements are nothing more than pity plays.

Paddy Hill is a genuine victim. Look at his anger. Where is Jeremy's? I never saw SH's either. I was angry for him. He played the victim. His pity ploys kept my attention focused on him and in the process wore me down. The sole aim of a pathological individual = feed their supply.



Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Caroline on December 07, 2016, 10:09:AM
Photos were taken many hours after police arrived at the scene with Jeremy. Blood will dry quickly and crack. It's the body's way of closing a wound.

Craig described the blood as dried and cracked with proves she hadn't JUST died.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 07, 2016, 10:16:AM
A warm atmosphere results in everything drying quicker-------especially blood which naturally cracks at its thinnest point on the skin.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 07, 2016, 10:21:AM
Denial Steph, denial  ::)

Is it denial, or a lack of understanding and knowledge? I'm unsure. I questioned this when SH confessed.

Many people are lead by their own emotions and personal experiences and indeed agenda's. It's all there in the Simon Hall confession thread.

There weren't many posters who accepted the confession for what it was.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 07, 2016, 10:22:AM
Lookout you made similar excuses when SH confessed. You appear to be one of those people who wont back down to reason, even when the truth is staring you in the face.

The picture shows that she has been dead for quite some time, people can deny it all they like but there is no way Sheila died shortly before the house was stormed. She had been dead for some time.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 07, 2016, 10:25:AM
The picture shows that she has been dead for quite some time, people can deny it all they like but there is no way Sheila died shortly before the house was stormed. She had been dead for some time.

Did you see Bambers letter to Trudie dated 10th October? What do you make of it?http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7940.msg378616.html#msg378616
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Caroline on December 07, 2016, 10:26:AM
Is it denial, or a lack of understanding and knowledge? I'm unsure. I questioned this when SH confessed.

Many people are lead by their own emotions and personal experiences and indeed agenda's. It's all there in the Simon Hall confession thread.

There weren't many posters who accepted the confession for what it was.

In this instance, I believe it's denial. People make excuses to argue innocence, I did it myself - didn't even realise I was doing that until I started to have doubts.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Stephanie on December 07, 2016, 10:32:AM
In this instance, I believe it's denial. People make excuses to argue innocence, I did it myself - didn't even realise I was doing that until I started to have doubts.

I was obviously in denial when I learned SH had lied about his movements on that fateful night. I was in denial for around 8 months.  ::) ::) Though I didn't stop asking him questions and calling him out when I caught him in a lie or contradicting himself.

I even remained in denial when his brother boldly posted about his guilty early on in 2013.

SH suggested he'd been in denial for all those years. He tried to convince me that he's fed into his own lies and started to believe them. Another crock!  ::)
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 07, 2016, 10:34:AM
Did you see Bambers letter to Trudie dated 10th October? What do you make of it?

I did see it, will have to reread it though but on memory, it didn't strike me as very enthusiastic.
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: Caroline on December 07, 2016, 10:44:AM
I was obviously in denial when I learned SH had lied about his movements on that fateful night. I was in denial for around 8 months.  ::) ::) Though I didn't stop asking him questions and calling him out when I caught him in a lie or contradicting himself.

I even remained in denial when his brother boldly posted about his guilty early on in 2013.

SH suggested he'd been in denial for all those years. He tried to convince me that he's fed into his own lies and started to believe them. Another crock!  ::)

I guess if you invest in something (and you had invested a lot more than just time), you have to protect that investment. Who wants to believe they have been supporting a murderer? Hard to come to terms with. However, this is just a forum where people have no emotional involvement with Bamber but I suspect you more than anyone, understand how denial creeps in even when there are nagging doubts. I guess the doubts have to be strong enough that the denial becomes obvious and you just can't sustain it any more. That's about when I realised I couldn't support innocence any more.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 07, 2016, 12:01:PM
Scip hasn't changed his guilty stance - he just got bored and has interests in another case.

Though I'm sure, like me and many others, Scipio would be prepared to write an application to the CCRC to ensure Jeremy Bamber's psychology reports are scrutinised and taken into consideration, before any appeal application is considered. Not that I believe it will ever come to that.


Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Jane on December 07, 2016, 12:26:PM
It's well I remain pertinacious ! ;D ;D


xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 07, 2016, 07:42:PM
I'm sure there is an older trick than that Lookout. Still not sure what you mean though. No one needs to do an inside job on the CT, they do themselves more harm with silly gimmicks.

But the real harm is being caused by Jeremy Bamber. He is the predator, the CT are his prey. I imagine some of them work flat out; or did - until he drained them of everything they had. I also imagine they are doing a lot of what they are doing, not only based on their initiative but on the the subtle, and not so subtle clues Bamber will be making to them. They are his puppets, as I once was. They are supply, nothing more nothing less.

Bamber will be praising them for any 'gimmick' as it gives him entertainment. It feeds his extreme narcissism; and his empty core. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: David1819 on December 07, 2016, 07:54:PM
But the real harm is being caused by Jeremy Bamber. He is the predator, the CT are his prey. I imagine some of them work flat out; or did - until he drained them of everything they had. I also imagine they are doing a lot of what they are doing, not only based on their initiative but on the the subtle, and not so subtle clues Bamber will be making to them. They are his puppets, as I once was. They are supply, nothing more nothing less.


Jeremy Bamber is NOT Simon Hall
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 07, 2016, 07:57:PM

Jeremy Bamber is NOT Simon Hall

A psychopath is a psychopath regardless of any name they answer to. They are all dead inside David.

Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: mike tesko on December 09, 2016, 11:14:AM
Police records confirm that Sheila was present in the kitchen (7.37and 7.38am), and that her body was not upstairs in any bedroom by 8.10am. Additionally the rifle which was later photographed in Sheila's possession by 'DC 'Oakey (25) and PC Bird (26, onward) was confirmed resting against a first floor window by 7.15am...

No lies, no bullshit, but good old fashioned police records, containing information which the cops and the CPS daren't risk informing the jury which tried the matter about...

Why?
Title: Re: Clearing up the myths and Jeremy Bamber's lies regarding Christmas in prison
Post by: lebaleb on December 09, 2016, 05:23:PM
Craig described the blood as dried and cracked with proves she hadn't JUST died.

I agree. IMO dried blood shows she had been dead for at least one hour. But lack of rigor and only early stage lividity shows she had not been dead more than six hours before the time of the photos. That makes it some time after 4 am.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Jan on December 13, 2016, 06:47:PM
I can never understand why no one tested what actually could be heard from outside that house . If she had been alive when the police arrived could she have laid down on the bedroom floor and shot herself without being heard from outside? It's all speculation to say yes or no because like the window farce as far as I know it was never proven either way to the jury .
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Jan on December 13, 2016, 06:56:PM
Also would just like to say if you are getting into mental illness arguments , no two people are the same . You can make assumptions from research but that is all. It was always said Sheila would never kill her children , but she specifically was afraid she was a threat to them and there is not proof that Jeremy had any idea at all about private conversations she had with her doctor. Today there was a sad story where a man told his doctor he had visions of killing his wife and daughter but he would never do it as he loved them dearly the doctor told him to carry a photo of his daughter around to remind him of what he had. Unfortunately he then drowned his six year old daughter and the family dogs. He had never been violent before. So for every you case you can bring up about mental illness there will be another one to contradict it . The only proof you have about Jeremy's mental illness is that he is guilty in the eyes of the law. Or has he had a definitive medical diagnosis from someone who has actually met him?
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 13, 2016, 07:26:PM
I can never understand why no one tested what actually could be heard from outside that house . If she had been alive when the police arrived could she have laid down on the bedroom floor and shot herself without being heard from outside? It's all speculation to say yes or no because like the window farce as far as I know it was never proven either way to the jury .

How could they not hear her? The window was open.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 13, 2016, 07:41:PM
The only proof you have about Jeremy's mental illness is that he is guilty in the eyes of the law. Or has he had a definitive medical diagnosis from someone who has actually met him?

A personality disorder is not a mental illness; neither is psychopathy!
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: David1819 on December 13, 2016, 08:42:PM
A personality disorder is not a mental illness; neither is psychopathy!

That's debatable.


"There is also general debate
regarding whether personality disorders
should be regarded as mental illnesses, with
one commentator noting that the development
of effective treatments for personality
disorders would influence psychiatrists to
conclude that such disorders were illnesses
(Kendell, 2002; see also Krober & Lau,
2000, for a discussion of the use of personality
disorders in German criminal law). In addition,
terms such as antisocial personality
disorder, psychopathy, sociopathy, and dissocial
personality disorder are often used interchangeably,
despite the different criteria
for each label (Ogloff & Lyon, 1998)."


HANDBOOK OF PSYCHOPATHY by CHRISTOPHER J. PATRICK
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 14, 2016, 04:31:PM
I would say that psychopathy,personality disorder, narcissism,etc all form part of an abnormality of the brain particularly during development and teenage years.
If the mother is of a nervous or neurotic disposition then chances are the child will become the same.Environmental conditions/situations can alter the whole structure of the brain.
There are many " for instances " connected to the above.
In MY opinion,those named, ARE mental illnesses as sooner or later those persons have to have some form of treatment.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Jane on December 14, 2016, 06:42:PM
I would say that psychopathy,personality disorder, narcissism,etc all form part of an abnormality of the brain particularly during development and teenage years.
If the mother is of a nervous or neurotic disposition then chances are the child will become the same.Environmental conditions/situations can alter the whole structure of the brain.
There are many " for instances " connected to the above.
In MY opinion,those named, ARE mental illnesses as sooner or later those persons have to have some form of treatment.

MY GOD!!!! So you'd take the country back to the days of Matthew Hopkins, would you? How would YOU like it if it was decided to put a name to your personality because it was perceived as being truculent/ difficult/non conformist, and it was believed necessary to give you personality changing drugs? It's the modern day version of hunting down witches.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 14, 2016, 07:25:PM
MY GOD!!!! So you'd take the country back to the days of Matthew Hopkins, would you? How would YOU like it if it was decided to put a name to your personality because it was perceived as being truculent/ difficult/non conformist, and it was believed necessary to give you personality changing drugs? It's the modern day version of hunting down witches.




So where does this reply come in then  ? ::) Irrelevant !
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 14, 2016, 09:24:PM
I would say that psychopathy,personality disorder, narcissism,etc all form part of an abnormality of the brain particularly during development and teenage years.
If the mother is of a nervous or neurotic disposition then chances are the child will become the same.Environmental conditions/situations can alter the whole structure of the brain.
There are many " for instances " connected to the above.
In MY opinion,those named, ARE mental illnesses as sooner or later those persons have to have some form of treatment.

Treatment with what?
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Jane on December 14, 2016, 09:29:PM
Treatment with what?


Back to E.C.T. again, Caroline.......................or perhaps ducking or even burning?
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 14, 2016, 10:13:PM

Back to E.C.T. again, Caroline.......................or perhaps ducking or even burning?



Full of drama and lame excuses as per.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Jane on December 15, 2016, 08:08:AM


Full of drama and lame excuses as per.

And you've avoided giving an answer.....................as per.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 25, 2016, 06:56:PM
Jeremy Bamber's latest blog should be titled Sentimentality: The Dark Side !!

Beware people; you are being manipulated!



"Many therapists say sentimentality is one of the symptoms of narcissism, which in turn can be a characteristic of psychopathy, as it may well have been for Hitler, Mussolini and Tony Soprano.

The widely cited author of Malignant Self-Love: Narcissism Revisited, who admits to being a recovering narcissist himself, paints a devastating picture of how sentimentality can manifest itself in disordered people.

“The narcissist is a human pendulum hanging by the thread of the void that is his False Self. He swings between brutal and vicious abrasiveness – and mellifluous, saccharine sentimentality,” writes Sam Vaknin, who has a PhD in physics but now specializes in therapy.

Narcissists come bundled with overpowering negative emotions, Vaknin writes, notably anger and envy. “Rather than experience these {negative emotions}, narcissists prefer to imitate emotions and affect.”

In other words, Vaknin says narcissists fake their feelings. They frequently “act out” pre-packaged emotions, including devotion to ideals (such as the “family,” the “homeland,” “the environment” or “God”). That way they achieve their manipulative ends.http://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/the-dark-side-of-sentimentality


Saturday, 24 December 2016
Christmas memories with Jeremy Bamber

I have been thinking back to Christmas and the happy times we had at White House Farm in the festive period. Trimming the tree, mum in the kitchen baking and Sheila and I getting up to mischief pinching the chocolates from under the tree.  I never would have imagined as a child and young man that the greatest gift I would ever wish for in my life would be my freedom.

I can’t recall that I was ever in a nativity play dressed as a little shepherd or a wise man but I suppose that I must have been in at least one when I was at my little school, Maldon Court. I do remember though some of the brilliant gifts mum and dad selected for me. I especially loved Lego bricks and would build so many fantastical structures, it was so much fun. Sheila and I once got a table tennis table, bats and ping pong balls, now you would have thought this was a great present but as none of the family were able to play it with any success it was soon abandoned.

One amazing Christmas gift was a car, which could be programmed to follow a course. It was called an Amaze-A-Matic car described as being a “car with a brain” which pre-dated swanky remote control cars. The car came supplied with narrow, long rectangular plastic sheets which had small areas and parts cut outs of them. These would be inserted into the rear of the car and it would drive on a pre-determined course set out by the inserted sheet. You even got some spare cardboard inserts and a set of instructions which explained how you could map your own course. It really was so much fun but the batteries, the great big ‘D’ size ones, never seemed to last very long and we were always hunting round for new ones so the excitement soon faded.

The best Christmas present I ever got though was a fabulous Scalextric set when I was about 13 which dad helped me set up in the dining room. It was a big set and had crossovers of the track, bridges, banking’s and even a lap counter so you could’t cheat. The set had 2 cars, a white one and a blue one I think they were, and looked like proper racing cars.

We would choose which famous racing driver we would be and had hours of fun zooming the cars round the track to become the motor racing champion. The cars went so fast and often would fly off the track and crash when you approached a corner too fast. For some reason everyone who ever raced my Scalextric with me always wanted to be on the outer track which was really handy as I had made a significant discovery which would prevent my car cascading from the track. After a little experimentation I discovered that if I sprayed a little of mum’s hairspray on to the track it caused it to be slightly sticky which would help hold my car in place and stop it flying off at the corners but I kept this discovery very secret at the time.

I have so many happy memories of Christmas spent with the people I loved and who loved me and I am grateful that over all the years of my wrongful imprisonment I can recall such happy times. As I have already said I would never have imagined when I was growing up that my freedom would be at the top of my wish list.

I know that my campaign team are working hard in relation to forensic issues which will see me released from jail and my conviction quashed. I know that the costs involved are huge and without the kindness and generosity of you the public these essential reports cannot be commissioned. With your help I will achieve freedom and next year be able to surround myself with friends as a free man and make new memories.

Happy Christmas
Jeremy
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: David1819 on December 26, 2016, 10:26:AM
Jeremy Bamber's latest blog should be titled Sentimentality: The Dark Side !!

Beware people; you are being manipulated!


That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.  8)
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 26, 2016, 07:05:PM
That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.  8)

Instead of dismissing Jeremy Bamber's apparent psychopathy; do some research.

I know for a fact there are people who have had contact with him over the years who relate to and agree with what I post. For those people who make excuses for his behaviours, that's fine. 

But it's blatantly obvious to me he manipulates people. And it's also obvious some people around him have their own personal agenda's and don't appear too bothered by innocence or guilt.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 27, 2016, 10:54:AM
One has to know someone PERSONALLY before carrying out/reading any psychological assessment/ research on that person.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Jane on December 27, 2016, 11:44:AM
One has to know someone PERSONALLY before carrying out/reading any psychological assessment/ research on that person.

Apparently not. Doctors are now giving diagnoses over the phone.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 27, 2016, 11:52:AM
Apparently not. Doctors are now giving diagnoses over the phone.




What next,Mediums ? How on earth can a diagnosis be made over the phone ? Would you like to be diagnosed in this way,Honestly ??
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Jane on December 27, 2016, 12:19:PM



What next,Mediums ? How on earth can a diagnosis be made over the phone ? Would you like to be diagnosed in this way,Honestly ??

Possibly! I may not like the idea of it, but if I couldn't get to see the doctor, it may be better than nothing if I was in need. No doubt over phone diagnoses will be coming to a surgery near you, soon!!!
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 27, 2016, 12:34:PM
Possibly! I may not like the idea of it, but if I couldn't get to see the doctor, it may be better than nothing if I was in need. No doubt over phone diagnoses will be coming to a surgery near you, soon!!!




If/when a doctor already has your history of medical problems,then and only then would there be need for telephone advice regarding that. In the past,when there's been no need for me to see a GP or make any appointments, just advice,I've then rang and they've rang me back,but for a NEW or SUDDEN diagnosis via the phone,then a positive NO.
I doubt,or HOPE that I'll never have to change this arrangement that I have. I don't have a specific " family doctor " as the few times that I have visited,maybe, FORTUNATELY,once a year,there's someone different,so there'd be no consistency anyway,and I don't like that.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 02:48:PM
One has to know someone PERSONALLY before carrying out/reading any psychological assessment/ research on that person.

You don't have to know them personally, but you do require some interaction. However, to have an opinion on a mass murderer's personality where quite a lot of information about them is readily available, you don't need such interaction.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 27, 2016, 03:06:PM
You don't have to know them personally, but you do require some interaction. However, to have an opinion on a mass murderer's personality where quite a lot of information about them is readily available, you don't need such interaction.





I beg to differ. Police in the States painted the blackest picture of a guy who was released from Death Row after 20 years of incarceration there-------the guy was awaiting the electric chair for the alleged rape and murder of a woman and only for DNA taken years after his arrest,was it found that the man,Nick Yarris,had been innocent.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 03:33:PM




I beg to differ. Police in the States painted the blackest picture of a guy who was released from Death Row after 20 years of incarceration there-------the guy was awaiting the electric chair for the alleged rape and murder of a woman and only for DNA taken years after his arrest,was it found that the man,Nick Yarris,had been innocent.

And?
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 27, 2016, 03:45:PM
And?





Does it not go to prove that the arm of the law aren't always right ? Even in murder cases !!
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 03:51:PM




Does it not go to prove that the arm of the law aren't always right ? Even in murder cases !!

I didn't say hey were always right and don't believe they are. However, I do believe Jeremy is guilty and shares many traits synonymous with psychopathy.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: notsure on December 27, 2016, 04:17:PM
Apparently not. Doctors are now giving diagnoses over the phone.

Yes probably for non serious conditions but not for physchopathy, I'm sure of that. One simply can't diagnose that in one telephone conversation.

Mind you you can diagnose yourself for most things now
On google!!
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 27, 2016, 07:10:PM
I didn't say hey were always right and don't believe they are. However, I do believe Jeremy is guilty and shares many traits synonymous with psychopathy.




There are lots of people who share the same traits who are NOT psychopaths !
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 27, 2016, 07:40:PM



There are lots of people who share the same traits who are NOT psychopaths !

What are they then Lookout?

How would you describe someone who shares the same traits as a psychopath?

https://www.sott.net/article/268449-Empathic-people-are-natural-targets-for-sociopaths-protect-yourself

I remember well the "hangers-on" from 2013; especially those people who refused to accept SH's guilt.


The Emperor's New Clothes
In The Emperor's New Clothes by Hans Christian Anderson, two weavers promise the emperor a new suit of clothes that is invisible to those who are stupid and unfit for their positions.

When the emperor parades before his subjects, all the adults, not wishing to be seen in a negative light, pretend they can see the clothes. The only truthful person is a child who cries "But he isn't wearing any clothes!".

The boy in the tale represents those who see the problem behavior for what it is and find the courage of their convictions to make a stand. Sight becomes insight, which turns into action.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 07:55:PM



There are lots of people who share the same traits who are NOT psychopaths !
It depends on how many of the traits they share.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Steve_uk on December 27, 2016, 07:59:PM
I wouldn't know what the tests conducted in prison consist of to say definitively that Bamber was a psychopath. I think he experienced a feeling of alienation from an early age and when Brambles the dog died learned to shut off his feelings from the outside world. He and Sheila may or may not have contributed to June's second breakdown in 1982; both were financially secure but emotionally neglected, craving hugs from their partners and the need to feel reassurance that they were both wanted. In my view it's impossible to say whether both were bad, mad or just sad.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 07:59:PM
What are they then Lookout?

How would you describe someone who shares the same traits as a psychopath?

https://www.sott.net/article/268449-Empathic-people-are-natural-targets-for-sociopaths-protect-yourself

I remember well the "hangers-on" from 2013; especially those people who refused to accept SH's guilt.


The Emperor's New Clothes
In The Emperor's New Clothes by Hans Christian Anderson, two weavers promise the emperor a new suit of clothes that is invisible to those who are stupid and unfit for their positions.

When the emperor parades before his subjects, all the adults, not wishing to be seen in a negative light, pretend they can see the clothes. The only truthful person is a child who cries "But he isn't wearing any clothes!".

The boy in the tale represents those who see the problem behavior for what it is and find the courage of their convictions to make a stand. Sight becomes insight, which turns into action.

You just have to read these questions and from what we know about Jeremy, I think he would score pretty high (although it's not an actual diagnosis test) http://psychcentral.com/quizzes/psychopathy.htm
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 08:01:PM
I wouldn't know what the tests conducted in prison consist of to say definitively that Bamber was a psychopath. I think he experienced a feeling of alienation from an early age and when Brambles the dog died learned to shut off his feelings from the outside world. He and Sheila may or may not have contributed to June's second breakdown in 1982; both were financially secure but emotionally neglected, craving hugs from their partners and the need to feel reassurance that they were both wanted. In my view it's impossible to say whether both were bad, mad or just sad.

He doesn't get tested for psychopathy regularly Steve.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Steve_uk on December 27, 2016, 08:03:PM
He doesn't get tested for psychopathy regularly Steve.
Those tests seem pretty easy to circumvent anyhow.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 27, 2016, 08:04:PM
It depends on how many of the traits they share.




I would say enough for them to be " on the border ". There's no turning back either,just progressiveness.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 27, 2016, 08:08:PM
You just have to read these questions and from what we know about Jeremy, I think he would score pretty high (although it's not an actual diagnosis test) http://psychcentral.com/quizzes/psychopathy.htm

SH did tests like this before he confessed. Following his confession he stated he was a possible psychopath.

I have no doubts that Bamber is a classic psychopath. It's possible he was damaged long before he was adopted. It's also possible genetics were a factor.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Jane on December 27, 2016, 08:10:PM
He doesn't get tested for psychopathy regularly Steve.

Why would he need to be? It seems, from what we're told that his behaviours, since his conviction, have been relatively consistent, so it's hardly a matter for concern what psych label is attached to him, or indeed, any OTHER prisoner. Think of the expense in regularly testing numerous prisoners. Different thing if a sudden change occurs in their behaviours.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 08:10:PM
SH did tests like this before he confessed. Following his confession he stated he was a possible psychopath.

I have no doubts that Bamber is a classic psychopath. It's possible he was damaged long before he was adopted. It's also possible genetics were a factor.

I think the main reason for his PD is feelings of rejection (adoption and sent of to boarding school at such a young age). It is also interesting that he is alleged to have sustained a head injury as a small boy.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 27, 2016, 08:12:PM



I would say enough for them to be " on the border ". There's no turning back either,just progressiveness.

Research suggests intervention may help an individual who presents with traits of a personality disorder in early childhood. Therefore I do not agree with your belief that there is no turning back. It often depends on environmental factors.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 08:12:PM
Those tests seem pretty easy to circumvent anyhow.
They aren't, they ask the same question in many different ways. There are a lot of questions but only certain ones are relevant and they are hidden in between.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 27, 2016, 08:13:PM
Do we know if a visit to A&E was in order after this head injury ?
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 08:14:PM
Research suggests intervention may help an individual who presents with traits of a personality disorder in early adulthood. Therefore I do not agree with your belief that there is no turning back. It often depends on environmental factors.

There is a lot of research into positive reinforcement. But diagnosis needs to be in early childhood.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 08:14:PM
Do we know if a visit to A&E was in order after this head injury ?

no idea
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Jane on December 27, 2016, 08:17:PM
Do we know if a visit to A&E was in order after this head injury ?

Did the Bambers ever do NHS?
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 27, 2016, 08:25:PM
They aren't, they ask the same question in many different ways. There are a lot of questions but only certain ones are relevant and they are hidden in between.

I'm not convinced Bamber has had a thorough and proper psychopathy test. I'm of the strong opinion the forensic psychologist who assessed him based his assessment on Bamber's claims of innocence. SH was tested for a personality disorder in 2008, based on his claims of innocence and passed with flying colours.

Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 27, 2016, 08:27:PM
There is a lot of research into positive reinforcement. But diagnosis needs to be in early childhood.

My mistake; I meant childhood not adulthood - just edited my post.

Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 27, 2016, 08:30:PM
no idea





Because as you know,it would have depended upon the severity of the injury as to whether a hospital visit was needed. If not,then it would have been amongst the normal bumps and bruises that a toddler collects along the way.
 Also the age of the child too because if under one year old,the skull is still soft enough to buffer a bump.
I haven't read about anything having been made of it,which leads me to believe that it wasn't a worry.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 27, 2016, 08:38:PM




Because as you know,it would have depended upon the severity of the injury as to whether a hospital visit was needed. If not,then it would have been amongst the normal bumps and bruises that a toddler collects along the way.
 Also the age of the child too because if under one year old,the skull is still soft enough to buffer a bump.
I haven't read about anything having been made of it,which leads me to believe that it wasn't a worry.

In the SH case (Following the Zenith burglary omission) the CCRC requested copies of all medical records (Including prison records and all records prior to prison). And if I recall they asked if he had ever sustained a bump to the head.

I am of the belief the CCRC know a lot more about appellants than they are allowed to disclose due to their human rights.

I further believe in the case of Jeremy Bamber, they will never allow another appeal to pass through their doors, especially after the SH confession and the knowledge they gained from this.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: notsure on December 27, 2016, 08:41:PM
Why would he need to be? It seems, from what we're told that his behaviours, since his conviction, have been relatively consistent, so it's hardly a matter for concern what psych label is attached to him, or indeed, any OTHER prisoner. Think of the expense in regularly testing numerous prisoners. Different thing if a sudden change occurs in their behaviours.

agreed

however even if he is one it doesn't make him guilty. It's been pointed out several times that many people have it .

During the trial it didn't seem to be an issue they were concerned about so I'm not sure why it is on this forum.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 08:43:PM
I'm not convinced Bamber has had a thorough and proper psychopathy test. I'm of the strong opinion the forensic psychologist who assessed him based his assessment on Bamber's claims of innocence. SH was tested for a personality disorder in 2008, based on his claims of innocence and passed with flying colours.

Well, they aren't easy to fool BUT, if you know what the test is for, you can certainly be careful with the answers. I did a sample test as part of my degree but the tutor didn't tell us what it was for - the score came a few weeks later when we began the abnormal psychology module. Some may SAY they don't believe it - but I passed  ;)
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 27, 2016, 08:45:PM
Did the Bambers ever do NHS?




NHS and Private work together. Well consultants do both, and overflows from NHS are sent to private hospitals.
 Even if the head injury had warranted a hospital visit,we'd have heard about it before now.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 08:47:PM
agreed

however even if he is one it doesn't make him guilty. It's been pointed out several times that many people have it .

During the trial it didn't seem to be an issue they were concerned about so I'm not sure why it is on this forum.

I think their main concern was whether he was guilty or not. Being a psychopath wasn't something the court was looking for - however, it's a stretch too far to say that he might be a psychopath but could still be innocent? I think he's a psychopath because only someone with that kind of personality disorder could kill 5 people and still play the innocent victim.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 08:48:PM



NHS and Private work together. Well consultants do both, and overflows from NHS are sent to private hospitals.
 Even if the head injury had warranted a hospital visit,we'd have heard about it before now.

We have heard about the head injury.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 27, 2016, 08:52:PM
We have heard about the head injury.





I know we've heard about the injury,but where from and by whom ? Any medical reports about it ?
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 08:57:PM




I know we've heard about the injury,but where from and by whom ? Any medical reports about it ?

You write to Jeremy, ask him.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 27, 2016, 09:07:PM
You write to Jeremy, ask him.





No problem,I will do.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 09:08:PM




No problem,I will do.

At least then we might know one way or the other.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 27, 2016, 10:00:PM


https://www.sott.net/article/268449-Empathic-people-are-natural-targets-for-sociopaths-protect-yourself



"The apath. We call those who collude in the sport of the sociopath apathetic, or apaths. In this situation, it means a lack of concern or being indifferent to the targeted person.

Apaths are an integral part of the sociopath's arsenal and contribute to sociopathic abuse. Sociopaths have an uncanny knack of knowing who will assist them in bringing down the person they are targeting. It is not necessarily easy to identify an apath; in other circumstances, an apath can show ample empathy and concern for others - just not in this case. The one attribute an apath must have is a link to the target.

How apaths, who might otherwise be fair-minded people, become involved in such destructive business is not hard to understand, but it can be hard to accept. The main qualifying attribute is poor judgment resulting from lack of insight. They might be jealous of or angry at the target, and thus have something to gain from the evolving situation.

At other times, the apath might not want to see the 'bad' in someone, particularly if the sociopath is useful. Or they might choose not to see because they have enough on their plate and do not possess the wherewithal or moral courage to help the targeted person at that time. Usually, be it active or passive involvement, the apath's conscience appears to fall asleep. It is this scenario that causes people blindly to follow leaders motivated only by self-interest.

Apathy is an avoidance strategy.

Apaths are often fearful people. They are the ones most likely to go with the flow, to agree that the emperor/empress is wearing new clothes. They might also fail to perceive the threat: a danger is of no importance if you deny its existence.

An apath's response to a sociopath's call to arms can then result from a state of 'learned helplessness'.

Apaths behave defenselessly because they want to avoid unpleasant or harmful circumstances [including the sociopath turning on them].
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 27, 2016, 10:07:PM
"The apath. We call those who collude in the sport of the sociopath apathetic, or apaths. In this situation, it means a lack of concern or being indifferent to the targeted person.

Apaths are an integral part of the sociopath's arsenal and contribute to sociopathic abuse. Sociopaths have an uncanny knack of knowing who will assist them in bringing down the person they are targeting. It is not necessarily easy to identify an apath; in other circumstances, an apath can show ample empathy and concern for others - just not in this case. The one attribute an apath must have is a link to the target.

How apaths, who might otherwise be fair-minded people, become involved in such destructive business is not hard to understand, but it can be hard to accept. The main qualifying attribute is poor judgment resulting from lack of insight. They might be jealous of or angry at the target, and thus have something to gain from the evolving situation.

At other times, the apath might not want to see the 'bad' in someone, particularly if the sociopath is useful. Or they might choose not to see because they have enough on their plate and do not possess the wherewithal or moral courage to help the targeted person at that time. Usually, be it active or passive involvement, the apath's conscience appears to fall asleep. It is this scenario that causes people blindly to follow leaders motivated only by self-interest.

Apathy is an avoidance strategy.

Apaths are often fearful people. They are the ones most likely to go with the flow, to agree that the emperor/empress is wearing new clothes. They might also fail to perceive the threat: a danger is of no importance if you deny its existence.

An apath's response to a sociopath's call to arms can then result from a state of 'learned helplessness'.

Apaths behave defenselessly because they want to avoid unpleasant or harmful circumstances [including the sociopath turning on them].

Jeremy Bamber's supporters are blindly following a man whose sole interest is Jeremy Bamber.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: lookout on December 27, 2016, 10:15:PM
Nothing blind about me. Nor do I persist in making remarks toward those who see him guilty !
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Stephanie on December 27, 2016, 10:48:PM
Nothing blind about me. Nor do I persist in making remarks toward those who see him guilty !

As the article suggests Lookout; "a danger is of no importance if you deny its existence. 

Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: notsure on December 27, 2016, 11:10:PM
I think their main concern was whether he was guilty or not. Being a psychopath wasn't something the court was looking for - however, it's a stretch too far to say that he might be a psychopath but could still be innocent? I think he's a psychopath because only someone with that kind of personality disorder could kill 5 people and still play the innocent victim.

well I suppose if I thought he was a 100% percent guilty I might agree with you but I have my doubts so can't.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 11:51:PM
well I suppose if I thought he was a 100% percent guilty I might agree with you but I have my doubts so can't.

That's fine.

I'm just watching a documentary about the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, it's a new look at the cse. One of the officers who was in charge on the morning she was discovered said "Virtually every staged murder case that I have seen, the perpetrator manipulates the arrival of friends or other family members who are then put into a situation where they actually discover the body or they are with the perpetrator who the body is discovered". Sound familiar?
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 27, 2016, 11:55:PM
That's fine.

I'm just watching a documentary about the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, it's a new look at the cse. One of the officers who was in charge on the morning she was discovered said "Virtually every staged murder case that I have seen, the perpetrator manipulates the arrival of friends or other family members who are then put into a situation where they actually discover the body or they are with the perpetrator who the body is discovered". Sound familiar?

Jeremy did this but went further and had the police discover the scene
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Steve_uk on December 28, 2016, 12:10:AM
That's fine.

I'm just watching a documentary about the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, it's a new look at the cse. One of the officers who was in charge on the morning she was discovered said "Virtually every staged murder case that I have seen, the perpetrator manipulates the arrival of friends or other family members who are then put into a situation where they actually discover the body or they are with the perpetrator who the body is discovered". Sound familiar?
I might agree with the theory but the JonBenet murder scene wasn't staged. Her father discovered the body and a stun gun had been used in a kidnapping gone wrong.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 28, 2016, 12:19:AM
I might agree with the theory but the JonBenet murder scene wasn't staged. Her father discovered the body and a stun gun had been used in a kidnapping gone wrong.

That's an interpretation, it isn't mine. The stun gun was a theory, a little like the marks on Nevill's back.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: David1819 on December 28, 2016, 03:08:AM
That's fine.

I'm just watching a documentary about the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, it's a new look at the cse. One of the officers who was in charge on the morning she was discovered said "Virtually every staged murder case that I have seen, the perpetrator manipulates the arrival of friends or other family members who are then put into a situation where they actually discover the body or they are with the perpetrator who the body is discovered". Sound familiar?

The scene was not staged. I posted this on the red forum not so long ago.


1. Duct tape around her mouth cannot be linked to the Ramsay's 

"The black duct tape used on JonBenet's mouth has also not been sourced to defendants. (SMF P 170; PSMF P 170.) Both ends of the duct tape found on her were torn, indicating that it came from a roll of tape that had been used before. (SMF P 171; PSMF P 171.) No similar duct tape was found in the house, nor is there evidence that defendants ever used or owned such duct tape. (SMF P 172; PSMF P 172.)" (Carnes 2003:18).
Cord. "sources for the....cord used in the crime were never located, nor sourced, to defendants' home." (Carnes 2003:10).

2. The cord used around her neck cannot be linked the Ramseys

"sources for the....cord used in the crime were never located, nor sourced, to defendants' home." (Carnes 2003:10).

3. A bag containing rope and a baseball bat not belonging to the Ramsays was found in the house

A baseball bat not owned by the Ramseys found on the north side of the house has fibers consistent with fibers found in the carpet in the basement where JonBenet's body was found. (SMF P 185; PSMF P 185.)" (Carnes 2003:20).

Rope and Bag in JAR Bedroom. "a rope was found inside a brown paper sack in the guest bedroom on the second floor; defendants have indicated that neither of these items belonged to them. (SMF P 181; PSMF P 181.) Regardless of its ownership, there is no explanation why a bag containing a rope would be in the guest bedroom. Further, small pieces of the material on this brown sack were found in the "vacuuming" of JonBenet's bed and in the body bag that was used to transport her body (SMF P 181; PSMF P 181), thereby suggesting that either the bag had been near JonBenet or that someone who had touched the bag had also touched JonBenet." (Carnes 2003:93-94).

4. Debris of dirt and leaves from outside was found on the basement floor

Moreover, leaves and debris, consistent with the leaves and debris found in the window well, were found on the floor under the broken window suggesting that someone had actually entered the basement through this window. (SMF P 136; PSMF P 136.)" (Carnes 2003:88).


5. Handwriting on the ransom note does not belong to any of the parents.

During the investigation, the Boulder Police Department and Boulder County District Attorney's Office consulted at least six handwriting experts. (SMF P 191; PSMF P 191.) All of these experts consulted the original Ransom Note and original handwriting exemplars from Mrs. Ramsey. (SMF P 205; PSMF P 205.) Four of these experts were hired by the police and two were hired by defendants. (SMF P 191; PSMF P 191.) None of the six consulted experts identified Mrs. Ramsey as the author of the Ransom Note. (SMF P 195; PSMF P 195.)

All six experts cited in the Carnes opinion  "agreed that Mr. Ramsey could be eliminated as the author of the Ransom Note. (SMF P 194; PSMF P 194.)" (Carnes 2003:26).

6. Unidentified male DNA found under JonBenet's fingernails

The coroner took nail clippings from JonBenet. Male DNA was found under JonBenet's right hand fingernail that does not match that of any Ramsey. (SMF P 174; PSMF P 174.) Defendants also assert that male DNA was found under JonBenet's left hand fingernail, which also does not match that of any Ramsey. (SMF P 173.)" (Carnes 2003:22).

7. Unidentified male DNA found on JonBenet's underwear

"In addition, male DNA was found in JonBenet's underwear that does not match that of any Ramsey and has not yet been sourced. (SMF PP 175, 178; PSMF PP 175, 178.)" (Carnes 2003:22).

8. The unidentified DNA under JonBenets nails can match to the DNA found in her underwear

The same AP report stated noted "its genetic markers may match evidence taken from fingernails on both of JonBenet's hands. 'There are common markers as to all three that would strongly suggest they are from the same source"


Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: guest7363 on December 31, 2016, 07:36:PM
That's fine.

I'm just watching a documentary about the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, it's a new look at the cse. One of the officers who was in charge on the morning she was discovered said "Virtually every staged murder case that I have seen, the perpetrator manipulates the arrival of friends or other family members who are then put into a situation where they actually discover the body or they are with the perpetrator who the body is discovered". Sound familiar?
Spotted that as well Caroline, I thought they ruled out the stun gun?  It didn't leave the same marks and the gap between marks wasn't the same distance?  They said the marks was made by the child's train track prongs?  The DNA on the knickers was micro and could have come from when they were packaged?  The flash light matched the skull injury and proved it left the same indentation when tested on a skull. Like they said, why leave a ransom note when she is dead in the house. 
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on December 31, 2016, 07:48:PM
Spotted that as well Caroline, I thought they ruled out the stun gun?  It didn't leave the same marks and the gap between marks wasn't the same distance?  They said the marks was made by the child's train track prongs?  The DNA on the knickers was micro and could have come from when they were packaged?  The flash light matched the skull injury and proved it left the same indentation when tested on a skull. Like they said, why leave a ransom note when she is dead in the house.

They did rule out the stun gun, it was just a theory. I agree about the note - why leave another piece of evidence behind? The cobwebs were interesting!
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Steve_uk on December 31, 2016, 07:54:PM
They did rule out the stun gun, it was just a theory. I agree about the note - why leave another piece of evidence behind? The cobwebs were interesting!
They did not.  http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682467/Evidence%20of%20a%20Stun%20Gun
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: guest7363 on December 31, 2016, 09:20:PM
They did not.  http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682467/Evidence%20of%20a%20Stun%20Gun
Hi Steve, we are on about the panel of experts on the recent documentary on channel 4
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Steve_uk on December 31, 2016, 09:25:PM
Hi Steve, we are on about the panel of experts on the recent documentary on channel 4
Well I watched that as well. I must have missed the relevant part.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: guest7363 on December 31, 2016, 09:43:PM
Well I watched that as well. I must have missed the relevant part.
They said it wasn't a stun gun, they tested one on someone and it didn't leave the same marks and the distance wasn't the same, they lined the marks up with a child's train set track that was on the floor at the time.  He proved this was used after she was dead because it punctured the skin but no blood had seeped out as if they had prodded her with it to see if she was alive?
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Steve_uk on December 31, 2016, 09:45:PM
They said it wasn't a stun gun, they tested one on someone and it didn't leave the same marks and the distance wasn't the same, they lined the marks up with a child's train set track that was on the floor at the time.  He proved this was used after she was dead because it punctured the skin but no blood had seeped out as if they had prodded her with it to see if she was alive?
Yes I remember now. They'd better be careful though or Burke will make another (financial) killing.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: guest7363 on December 31, 2016, 09:54:PM
Yes I remember now. They'd better be careful though or Burke will make another (financial) killing.
Yes he's wanting 750 million dollars from cbs.
Title: Re: Jeremy Bamber and the Pity Play..
Post by: Caroline on January 01, 2017, 12:53:PM
They did not.  http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682467/Evidence%20of%20a%20Stun%20Gun

They did. They did full experiments using the taser on a volunteer and it didn't leave marks anything like those found on Jon Benet.