Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on October 01, 2015, 10:54:AM
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(1) http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/what-really-happened
1. Before the the Firearms Group entered WHF, Collins and Delgado looked through the kitchen window. Collins reports by radio that two bodies, one female and one male, have been seen in the kitchen. Both appeared to be dead.
2. Collins, Delgado and others briefly enter the kitchen and confirm the two bodies by radio and telephone. They then continue to search the much of the downstairs and the back of the house upstairs.
3. At some point, Sheila recovers consciousness, and leaving the kitchen and through the main hallway she ascends the main staircase to the master bedroom and shoots herself with the rifle which WPC Jeapes and PC Brown had seen leaning against the window.
4. To conceal their incompetence, TFG officers, probably in collusion with Inspector Montgomery and Ps Adams, decide to 'cover up' that SC had first been seen in the kitchen. At this stage, it was only a mild manipulation of the truth; she had, as they announced publicly, committed suicide upstairs, in the main bedroom.
5. Accordingly, Collins and Delgado omit from their statements any reference to looking through the kitchen window and seeing SC's body there; only one body, NB's, was in the kitchen and they first saw that after they had entered WHF.
6. All went well; the inquest ruled that SC had killed her parents and two sons and then committed suicide.
7. As August advanced, the police found themselves facing increasing difficulties. JB's relatives, anxious over issues of inheritance, were determined to establish his guilt and began to demand a full murder investigation.
Detective Chief Inspector 'Taff Jones' knew that JB was innocent but to explain why he was so sure he would have to admit that SC was alive when the police entered WHF and that the police had concealed this. He would also have been concerned that information about the contamination of the crime scene by more officers being drafted in for training exercises using the bodies in situ was going to become public making a mockery of crime scene preservation and showing utter disrespect for Jeremy Bamber's dead family.
8. 'Taff Jones' is delighted to be removed from heading the investigation. He is replaced by Ainsley, who had the reputation of being tough and ruthless. These qualities are required to prevent the police being exposed for concealing the truth about S C.
i. First line of defence: all records of police radio and telephone communications indicating that SC was still alive when the police entered WHF to be withheld from the defence.
ii. Second line of defence: in case JB's defence got wind of any of these radio or telephone messages, select TFG statements to mention mistaking NB's body for a woman.
9. At least eight or nine, perhaps a dozen or so, Essex Police officers know the truth about WHF and that JB did not murder SC. We are told they were frightened by Andrew Hunter’s revelations in the House of Commons in 2005 but they are more frightened of losing their police pensions or even imprisonment. One has 'come out' over an important detail (the issue of silencers) but will say no more. Another has allegedly confessed to a third party that he feels dreadful guilt about JB's imprisonment.
All of the above is supported by documentary evidence.
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1. Before the the Firearms Group entered WHF, Collins and Delgado looked through the kitchen window. Collins reports by radio that two bodies, one female and one male, have been seen in the kitchen. Both appeared to be dead.
This is not true, two bodies were only found 'AFTER' entry had been gained to the main kitchen, the statements of Collins and Delgado, describe looking through a kitchen window, and only seeing one body, which they both describe as the body of a female (behind the door)...
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1. Before the the Firearms Group entered WHF, Collins and Delgado looked through the kitchen window. Collins reports by radio that two bodies, one female and one male, have been seen in the kitchen. Both appeared to be dead.
This is not true, two bodies were only found 'AFTER' entry had been gained to the main kitchen, the statements of Collins and Delgado, describe looking through a kitchen window, and only seeing one body, which they both describe as the body of a female (behind the door)...
Indeed it's not true you made up this nonsense. Collins saw one body when he looked through the kitchen window. No one saw any bodies through the laundry window. Most people don't even bother to read your nonsense anymore let alone bother to refute it you are looked at as the crazy uncle in the attic no one wants to talk about. The reputation you established for yourself is not the one you set out to establish.YOu are wasting your time pressing forward nonetheless.
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According to Murder Casebook there had also been a struggle in the bedroom and Sheila had been found lying on her back near Mrs Bamber's bedroom window. No mention of her head being contorted against the bedside cupboard.
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According to Murder Casebook there had also been a struggle in the bedroom and Sheila had been found lying on her back near Mrs Bamber's bedroom window. No mention of her head being contorted against the bedside cupboard.
Who supposedly found her by the window? The police all say she was hidden by the bed thus police who did not walk to the other side of the bed didn't even see Sheila's body so were unable to even provide details of how her body was positioned.
Her pooled blood was on the other side of the bed not near the window.
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According to Murder Casebook there had also been a struggle in the bedroom and Sheila had been found lying on her back near Mrs Bamber's bedroom window. No mention of her head being contorted against the bedside cupboard.
Lookout, I imagine every book ever written/documentary ever shown is going to stage it differently. I rather think you COULD be picking out the one that most directs the onus away from Jeremy.
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According to Murder Casebook there had also been a struggle in the bedroom and Sheila had been found lying on her back near Mrs Bamber's bedroom window. No mention of her head being contorted against the bedside cupboard.
I don't think 'Murder Casebook' (bought the Bamber one from ebay) is that heavy on 'facts' Lookout.
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I don't think 'Murder Casebook' (bought the Bamber one from ebay) is that heavy on 'facts' Lookout.
I've had it ages and never bothered reading it until today,but it's a real cobbled up affair. ::)
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I suppose the two bodies in the kitchen claim has to be justified.
So Sheila shot herself upstairs. Then went downstairs to the kitchen. Where she stayed for several hours. Leaving the gun upstairs. Mmm.
The police entering WHF makes Sheila regain conciousness. Mmm.
Sheila goes upstairs, without being seen. Then shoots herself again. Mmm.
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Why would Sheila shoot herself once upstairs, then go to the kitchen ? Did she want a cheese and pickle sandwich ?
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I suppose the two bodies in the kitchen claim has to be justified.
So Sheila shot herself upstairs. Then went downstairs to the kitchen. Where she stayed for several hours. Leaving the gun upstairs. Mmm.
The police entering WHF makes Sheila regain conciousness. Mmm.
Sheila goes upstairs, without being seen. Then shoots herself again. Mmm.
If they did see Shelia downstairs that night the only possibility is that she had not shot herself at all and was still unharmed, then went upstairs to shoot herself
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I've had it ages and never bothered reading it until today,but it's a real cobbled up affair. ::)
Yes, I thought because it was written 'nearer' time time of the murders, there might be something in it that had been forgotten. There weren't even any different pictures!! ???
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If they did see Shelia downstairs that night the only possibility is that she had not shot herself at all and was still unharmed, then went upstairs to shoot herself
It's tough to keep 'the two bodies in the kitchen' claim credible, when Sheila was found on the far side of the upstairs bedroom.
Sheila suddenly deciding to go upstairs and kill herself after the raid team had entered WHF, without being seen, is preposterous.
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It's tough to keep 'the two bodies in the kitchen' claim credible, when Sheila was found on the far side of the upstairs bedroom.
Sheila suddenly deciding to go upstairs and kill herself after the raid team had entered WHF, without being seen, is preposterous.
You are aware of the different staircases aren't you?
Anyway it is Suggested that is was happened that is made clear - because obviously they don't know.
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The police account, where an operative miles away wrote down there was one male and one female in the kitchen, after the police mistook Neville for a female, for a few seconds is realistic.
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1. Before the the Firearms Group entered WHF, Collins and Delgado looked through the kitchen window. Collins reports by radio that two bodies, one female and one male, have been seen in the kitchen. Both appeared to be dead.
This is not true, two bodies were only found 'AFTER' entry had been gained to the main kitchen, the statements of Collins and Delgado, describe looking through a kitchen window, and only seeing one body, which they both describe as the body of a female (behind the door)...
One body was seen through the back kitchen window, not the main kitchen window. If you were stood in the courtyard at the rear of the farmhouse looking toward the rear door, the back kitchen window is the ground floor window to the left of that door. The main kitchen window is the window to the right of that door. The all important curved wall which members of the raid team approached the aforementioned door, is to the right of the main kitchen window...
Firearm officers approached the rear farmhouse door, from a start point of outbuildings, followed by the curved wall which they used for cover en route to the door. What this tells us is that they were behind the curved wall prior to making their way to the door. They could not get to the door from the location of that curved wall without first of all passing the main kitchen window. They could not get to the back kitchen window until they had passed the door. PC Collins and PC Delgado went beyond the aforementioned door to the next window and looked in. They looked into the back kitchen window otherwise known as the laundry room. It doesn't matter what the room beyond the glass of that window was / is called, all that matters is that the correct window through which Collins looked in, and saw the female body, is correctly identified. The window Collins looked in was the window to the left of the door, not the right, when looking at the door from the vantage point of the courtyard. Collins could not possibly have approached the door from the location of the curved walk and gone past that door to look into the main kitchen window because he would have passed the main kitchen window before he got to the door...
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What Collins saw through the window took place before police got into the farmhouse, not afterwards...
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What Collins saw through the window took place before police got into the farmhouse, not afterwards...
Staff in the control room could not hear PC Collins or anybody else look in through the back kitchen window, or a any other window for that matter. However, once the raid party started to use the sledge hammer to bash the locked door in, staff in the control room who were listening in via the open phone link heard absolutely everything, including the strikes of the hammer against the door, movement and voices...
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Staff in the control room listened as Woodcock struggled for control of the rifle in Woodcock possession. They heard the single knock as the shot entered Sheila Caffells neck. Of course, staff in the control room did not see Woodcock shoot Sheila Caffel on that occasion, but they were privy to all the commotion relayed live to them back in the control room. "She pulled the barrel into her neck as if she wanted me to shoot her", screamed a voice which could only have been Woodcocks. Then came a message from the scene, passed by the occupants of CA07, at 07.37am - " THE BODY OF ONE DEAD MALE, and THE BODY OF ONE DEAD FEMALE", the message said. Nobody in the control room challenged the contents of that message, because the control room were listening in live to voices in the main kitchen talking about the bodies of a man and a woman there in that room...
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Yet to be publicly explored is the source from which the occupants of CA07 obtained the information which they passed onto the control room at 7.37hrs, and on other occasions, afterward...
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Staff in the control room had live access to main kitchen until exactly 7.52hrs...
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Staff in the control room had live access to main kitchen until exactly 7.52hrs...
All the significant activities had occurred in the main kitchen by this stàge, including searches having been carried out in all ground floor rooms, such as the dining room, living room, back kitchen / laundry room, the den, and the cellar. Also rooms up the back stairs including the upstairs office, a store room, and the loft. Just after 7.52hrs, the raid team prepared to go up the main stairs, in order to search four bedrooms and a bathroom on that upstairs part of the farmhouse...
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All the significant activities had occurred in the main kitchen by this stàge, including searches having been carried out in all ground floor rooms, such as the dining room, living room, back kitchen / laundry room, the den, and the cellar. Also rooms up the back stairs including the upstairs office, a store room, and the loft. Just after 7.52hrs, the raid team prepared to go up the main stairs, in order to search four bedrooms and a bathroom on that upstairs part of the farmhouse...
At and by this stàge (7.37hrs) three BODIES were still unaccounted for, namely, June Bamber, and the two Caffell children...
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Whatever happened in that main kitchen between the door getting smashed open at 7.32hrs, and the open phone link to the main kitchen getting switched off at 7.52hrs, was not only relayed from the scene to the control room by CA07, but everything was being overheard live by all the staff in the control room, and being recorded at the same time on audio tapes by the operator. So that nobody can begin to think that what CA07 relayed to the control room from the scene was some sort of a mistake, how come nobody in the conteol room, who were listening live via the kitchen phone link, questioned what they were being told by CA07 in those timed messages? More significantly, if there had been any dispute between what staff in the control room were listening to live, and what CA07 was relaying to them from the scene, then the 20 minute audio recording would not have been taped over and destroyed, it would almost certainly have been seized and retained as evidence in any future disciplinary, civil, or criminal investigation or proceedings...
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The 20 minute audio recording was not saved, staff in the control room did not question the messages received from CA07 at the scene, and so the contents of those messages passed by CA07 must be true and accurate, and have to be treated as a true recording of the events. These messages are evidence, whether anybody likes it or not. The occupants of CA07 must have believed what they overheard, or were told, to be true, otherwise they would not have said what they said in those messages passed from the scene to the control room. Why isn't Bews breaking his neck to go public to talk about this subject? He daren't because he knows he'd have to tell the truth, or heaven forbid, he'd have to admit telling lies when he was communicating with the control room...
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One thing we can all be 100% sure about, is that those first 20 minutes of live events, between 7.32hrs, and 7.52hrs, was documented, and recorded accurately...
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If police officers have acted like criminals, they do not deserve to be protected by implementing Pii rules, to prevent anyone from seeing the evidence of their criminality...
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I want to know why PS Bews has not made à witness statement about arguably the most significant part of his involvement when (1) he shit in his trousers whilst running back to the patrol car after seeing somebody alive and moving around in an upstairs bedroom. (2) Why he didn't give a true account of the message he passed to the control room at the time the firearm officers were called into action, (3) or make any reference to relaying the details of the two bodies found in the main kitchen upon entry, which he relayed from the scene to the control room?
Why not mention anything to do with these matters...
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It's never been contradicted by any of those involved ?
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It's never been contradicted by any of those involved ?
the message contents are true, and accurate, especially everything that happened between 7.32 and 7.52hrs, because everybody was either, taking part, relaying details, or monitoring live access to the events which took place in the kitchen, and events which passed through the main kitchen telephone open link directly to the control room...
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Sheila was alive until after police entered the main kitchen, so her body could not have been mistaken for the body of Ralph Bamber at any stage, because its quite clear that Ralph Bamber had been dead for quite some time inside the main kitchen - the point being that you couldn't misidentify a dead body, with a live body, not yet dead. At least not once entry into the main kitchen was made...
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What I find somewhat odd is that for a very long time Jeremy was advocating that the window Collins had looked into had been the back kitchen / laundry room, whereas it appears he has reverted to the sighting made by Collins being made through the main kitchen window.He spent many months in dispute with me over this very matter, at a time when I was promoting the Collins sighting of the female through the main kitchen window, whilst at that stage he was adamant that Collins had sighted the female behind the door through the back kitchen / laundry window. I do not believe that he has changed his mind, he must be simply going along with somebody else's view, for an easy life. But in any event you wouldn't have been able to see enough of Ralph Bambers body sat on that chair in front of the inner door because of the acute angle. Also Ralphs body was originally in front of that inner door, not behind it when viewed from the vantage point of someone standing outside the main kitchen window. But arguably the most telling feature is that PC Collins and the other officers would have gone past the main kitchen window after leaving the cover of the curved wall, to get to the door they were going to force open. Once arriving at that door, PC Collins went beyond that door and looked in through the next window on his right hand side, which is the back kitchen / laundry window. Sheila's body was behind the door the police were going to smash open...
Her body could not have been mistaken for that of Ralph Bambers because the sigutingbofvthe female behind the door wascse3n ina different room to the main kitchen where Ralphs body was eventually found...
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The other thing which seems apparent to me, is that once awoken or disturbed from her position behind the door police started to hit with the sledge hammer, she could not have got up and fled through the inner door into the main kirchen, because Ralphs body was sat on a chair directly behind it at that stage. It took 3 or 4 burly firearm officers about 4 minutes to budge his body so that it toppled over onto the floor of sorts. So, Sheila had to flee up the back stairs, not the front stairs as suggested by the so called official campaign team version of events. Seems to me that Jeremy has decided to take 'THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTENCE APPROACH', but I am afraid it will come at a cost. Since by adopting that approach it places Sheila in the same room as Ralph Bamber, before and after entry, leaving himself open to the claim that there were never two bodies in the main kitchen (even though there were after police entered it), only Ralphs body, misidentified as two...
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A part from these discrepancies, I agree with the remainder of thier argument...