Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Caroline on September 26, 2015, 02:46:PM
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Who does this remind you of? So many similarities. A son who liked the high life, couldn't wait for his inheritance, a plan to kill the family, an alibi, a silencer, a hit man, a suspicious copper and relatives - a life sentence!
http://www.biography.com/people/dana-ewell-17162482
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The sister also liked the high-life so much so that she wasn't prepared to be nursed back to health by living locally to her parents because she would miss the parties and night-life that London provided.
There are also umpteen cases which are like Sheila's too. Women who kill their children and parents too. Not necessarily because of money,but during/after acrimonious splits,separations or divorces and of course where there are mental health issues.
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The sister also liked the high-life so much so that she wasn't prepared to be nursed back to health by living locally to her parents because she would miss the parties and night-life that London provided.
There are also umpteen cases which are like Sheila's too. Women who kill their children and parents too. Not necessarily because of money,but during/after acrimonious splits,separations or divorces and of course where there are mental health issues.
You didn't read the article did you Lookout? There is no need to jump to the defence every time!
I hope others will read it and be far more objective!!
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You didn't read the article did you Lookout? There is no need to jump to the defence every time!
I hope others will read it and be far more objective!!
No I didn't read it,but I will do when I've got my coffee. ;D
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No I didn't read it,but I will do when I've got my coffee. ;D
Cheers! :)
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Cheers! :)
Well,first of all it states that police felt that there was something " staged " about the scene of the crime.
As a matter of interest has anyone read anything about EP having said or suggested this with WHF ?
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The sister also liked the high-life so much so that she wasn't prepared to be nursed back to health by living locally to her parents because she would miss the parties and night-life that London provided.
There are also umpteen cases which are like Sheila's too. Women who kill their children and parents too. Not necessarily because of money,but during/after acrimonious splits,separations or divorces and of course where there are mental health issues.
Lookout, if her behaviour at the party and subsequently is any indication,I very much doubt that Sheila was well enough to enjoy anything remotely close to "the high life, but I do suspect that the very LAST place she'd wish to be, when vulnerable, was buried in the Essex countryside close to to her childhood home.
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Who does this remind you of? So many similarities. A son who liked the high life, couldn't wait for his inheritance, a plan to kill the family, an alibi, a silencer, a hit man, a suspicious copper and relatives - a life sentence!
http://www.biography.com/people/dana-ewell-17162482
Chillingly similar, Caroline, but there is almost black humour in the over-planning. I wonder for how long Radovcich sat and waited on the plastic sheeting before the victims returned.
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Very similar Caroline, I wonder if Dana had heard of the WHF murders.
I noticed this "Also called to testify during the trial were Dana's uncles, who recounted how their nephew had become upset when he learned his parents' will was structured" so the wider family were aware that Dana wasn't all too pleased with his family, much like in the Bamber case when people knew Jeremy's true feelings by the smaller things he would say or do.
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Lookout, if her behaviour at the party and subsequently is any indication,I very much doubt that Sheila was well enough to enjoy anything remotely close to "the high life, but I do suspect that the very LAST place she'd wish to be, when vulnerable, was buried in the Essex countryside close to to her childhood home.
Jane,anyone who was as ill as they were professed to have been wouldn't be worrying about being anywhere,not even at or near WHF,so Sheila was more than aware of where her surroundings would have been and made herself quite clear that that wasn't the place she wanted to be.
Young or older those who've still got their mothers will more often than not go to them at times of upset or illness.Sheila wanted to be as far away as possible from hers,so there clearly was a big problem that didn't look like being resolved.
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Well,first of all it states that police felt that there was something " staged " about the scene of the crime.
As a matter of interest has anyone read anything about EP having said or suggested this with WHF ?
C'mon,it's been said many a time about the crime scene at WHF having been staged,but have EP ever mentioned it at any time ?
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C'mon,it's been said many a time about the crime scene at WHF having been staged,but have EP ever mentioned it at any time ?
They prosecuted Jeremy for the crime, so I'd take that as a good sign they believed that it was staged!
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C'mon,it's been said many a time about the crime scene at WHF having been staged,but have EP ever mentioned it at any time ?
To be honest Lookout, I have no idea, but just because, you, I or any other member haven't heard it said, it doesn't mean that it wasn't mentioned or thought by officers at the time. I imagine that police officers in California attend infinitely more gun related homicides than those in rural Essex and as such would be more attuned to such observations.
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No sheets of plastic had been used.Bullet casings were accounted for ( were they ever fingerprinted ?)
Perhaps Jeremy should have immediately put up a reward for the killer ? That would have put the cat among the pigeons.
One thing for sure Jeremy never plundered his grannie's bank account and he was her favourite grandson making it a possibility if he'd been that way inclined.
We're reading of two very different people in this Ewell and Bamber. Ewell was a mercenary type of person who had no regard for anyone and who HAD planned the executions. There was certainly nothing orderly about the murders at WHF which were done on a whim.
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Chillingly similar, Caroline, but there is almost black humour in the over-planning. I wonder for how long Radovcich sat and waited on the plastic sheeting before the victims returned.
I think it's human nature to 'over-play' things. The saying 'you can't be too careful' seems to come into play and in trying to be 'too careful' they end up being 'too careful' ;D ;D
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Very similar Caroline, I wonder if Dana had heard of the WHF murders.
I noticed this "Also called to testify during the trial were Dana's uncles, who recounted how their nephew had become upset when he learned his parents' will was structured" so the wider family were aware that Dana wasn't all too pleased with his family, much like in the Bamber case when people knew Jeremy's true feelings by the smaller things he would say or do.
he may well have Mat, thinking about the alibi, he made sure that he was far enough away not to have been a suspect. However, like Jeremy, too many people were involved and it didn't take much for Ponce (no the best name ;D) to realise that the gun he supplied, was the murder weapon.
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They prosecuted Jeremy for the crime, so I'd take that as a good sign they believed that it was staged!
Erm,I asked if anyone had heard EP saying that it had been staged. We all know he was prosecuted.
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No sheets of plastic had been used.Bullet casings were accounted for ( were they ever fingerprinted ?)
Perhaps Jeremy should have immediately put up a reward for the killer ? That would have put the cat among the pigeons.
One thing for sure Jeremy never plundered his grannie's bank account and he was her favourite grandson making it a possibility if he'd been that way inclined.
We're reading of two very different people in this Ewell and Bamber. Ewell was a mercenary type of person who had no regard for anyone and who HAD planned the executions. There was certainly nothing orderly about the murders at WHF which were done on a whim.
I think we're reading about two VERY similar people with two VERY similar motives. By the way Lookout, Jeremy wasn't Granny Speakman's favourite, it was Granny Bamber who favoured him (allegedly).
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Jane,anyone who was as ill as they were professed to have been wouldn't be worrying about being anywhere,not even at or near WHF,so Sheila was more than aware of where her surroundings would have been and made herself quite clear that that wasn't the place she wanted to be.
Young or older those who've still got their mothers will more often than not go to them at times of upset or illness.Sheila wanted to be as far away as possible from hers,so there clearly was a big problem that didn't look like being resolved.
But the Bambers had requested a visit from the children prior to their holiday with their father. It was the sole reason for Sheila being there and if memory serves me correctly she, too, may have persuaded herself that she/it won't be as bad this time OR told herself that if she tried harder to be what her mother wanted it would all be alright. Anyway, it was only going to be for a few days, wasn't it............
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Erm,I asked if anyone had heard EP saying that it had been staged. We all know he was prosecuted.
Given that none of us were involved with the investigation, we can't answer that but that doesn't mean it wasn't said. In fact, it rings a bell!
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But the Bambers had requested a visit from the children prior to their holiday with their father. It was the sole reason for Sheila being there and if memory serves me correctly she, too, may have persuaded herself that she/it won't be as bad this time OR told herself that if she tried harder to be what her mother wanted it would all be alright. Anyway, it was only going to be for a few days, wasn't it............
It was the insistence of June which prompted them to go and see her,as CC had stated,none of them had wanted to go to WHF but June had such a " hold " over them that a refusal would have been out of the question and more than they dared do.
Because,it was said,that none of them particularly relished the thought,CC's excuse was that Sheila would be" supervised " as he'd put it. So it was with reluctance that they all went and it must have been a terrible decision all round.No wonder Sheila hadn't uttered a word,she must have been dreading it.
It comes to something when you read about the boys hanging on to their dad before that final goodbye.They had no say in the matter. It's thoroughly heartbreaking.
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It was the insistence of June which prompted them to go and see her,as CC had stated,none of them had wanted to go to WHF but June had such a " hold " over them that a refusal would have been out of the question and more than they dared do.
Because,it was said,that none of them particularly relished the thought,CC's excuse was that Sheila would be" supervised " as he'd put it. So it was with reluctance that they all went and it must have been a terrible decision all round.No wonder Sheila hadn't uttered a word,she must have been dreading it.
It comes to something when you read about the boys hanging on to their dad before that final goodbye.They had no say in the matter. It's thoroughly heartbreaking.
Kids don't usually have 'a say in the matter'. How many families allow a six year old to make the decisions? and I certainly don't get the impression that June 'summoned' Sheila and the boys to WHF.
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I have heard of this before. Big difference is this guy got a friend to execute the killing.
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I have heard of this before. Big difference is this guy got a friend to execute the killing.
I wonder if Jeremy would have paid someone to do the killings for him, if he had known anyone and felt comfortable in approaching them. I think he would have done because he certainly didn't kill for pleasure and I doubt he enjoyed doing so, he killed for purely financial reasons.
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Kids don't usually have 'a say in the matter'. How many families allow a six year old to make the decisions? and I certainly don't get the impression that June 'summoned' Sheila and the boys to WHF.
I have to agree, Sheila was a grown woman who had lived independently from about 17 years old.
It was accepted she left home at such a young age and was allowed her freedom and independence which was just a continuation of her time at boarding school in many ways, therefore I find the tale of the all powerful mother difficult to believe in this context.
It would have been an opportunity to visit the family home and for the children to spend time with their grandparents while also giving Sheila support with the twins as full time mothering was obviously very difficult for her at this time.
The twins may have found their grandmother overbearing about prayers and religion in general an it seems very strict about eating their food etc. but they also probably had lots of fun running in the fields an generally letting off steam, it can't have been all bad. :-\
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It was the insistence of June which prompted them to go and see her,as CC had stated,none of them had wanted to go to WHF but June had such a " hold " over them that a refusal would have been out of the question and more than they dared do.
Because,it was said,that none of them particularly relished the thought,CC's excuse was that Sheila would be" supervised " as he'd put it. So it was with reluctance that they all went and it must have been a terrible decision all round.No wonder Sheila hadn't uttered a word,she must have been dreading it.
It comes to something when you read about the boys hanging on to their dad before that final goodbye.They had no say in the matter. It's thoroughly heartbreaking.
My friend, who is older than the Bambers were, have three grandsons who regularly PLEAD to be allowed a sleep over with Grandma and can't be torn away at going home time. I didn't have grandparents but I did have several "greats" with whom I was required to be on my best behaviour. One of them constantly admonished me to "Sit up straight, darling" although I recall that her husband was jolly. I have a feeling that the Bambers, as grandparents may have been closer to my "greats" than to my friend.
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My friend, who is older than the Bambers were, have three grandsons who regularly PLEAD to be allowed a sleep over with Grandma and can't be torn away at going home time. I didn't have grandparents but I did have several "greats" with whom I was required to be on my best behaviour. One of them constantly admonished me to "Sit up straight, darling" although I recall that her husband was jolly. I have a feeling that the Bambers, as grandparents may have been closer to my "greats" than to my friend.
My " greats " were like that too,Jane. I was scared witless of the darkness in the sitting room with its chenille curtains, drapes of cream net curtains, a huge aspidistra plant and an enormous g/father clock whose chimes frightened me to death. No wonder no light came in. An over-powering smell of mothballs too. Then the aunts all in black full length frocks,crisp lace edged aprons and mop-caps,towering over this 6/7 year old child-----me !
I couldn't have stayed in that house if you'd paid me,even as a child I'd have kicked off,I know I would.
My only reason for accepting this mob of arsenic and old lace was that I was with my dad ( his relatives ) and that I'd be going home with him----soon ;D ;D
That's why I felt for the twins because I hadn't wanted to be where I was at the time.
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I wonder if Jeremy would have paid someone to do the killings for him, if he had known anyone and felt comfortable in approaching them. I think he would have done because he certainly didn't kill for pleasure and I doubt he enjoyed doing so, he killed for purely financial reasons.
I cannot imagine for one moment that JB could have killed his whole family including his two 6 year old nephews unless he had some kind of disorder or psychosis.
Killing all those people the way they were killed was so vile and so disturbing no one in their right mind could get through it, go home and turn up with the police a few hours later without a massive reaction. He was calm that was one of the things noticed about him, which seemed suspicious to some police at the time.
Being greedy is one thing but executing your family is a whole different ball game.
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I cannot imagine for one moment that JB could have killed his whole family including his two 6 year old nephews unless he had some kind of disorder or psychosis.
Killing all those people the way they were killed was so vile and so disturbing no one in their right mind could get through it, go home and turn up with the police a few hours later without a massive reaction. He was calm that was one of the things noticed about him, which seemed suspicious to some police at the time.
Being greedy is one thing but executing your family is a whole different ball game.
Maggie,statistics say that 1 in 10 prisoners have mental health issues,and those who have will be in places like Broadmoor and Ashworth.
It's been proven that Jeremy is neither psychotic nor a psychopath,as in 30 years of incarceration,nothing has shown itself that he's got either of these traits.
He may have been calm at one point because he was NOT expecting the news which followed during the course of the morning. If he'd been play-acting,he'd have been putting on a huge act of pathos and hidden expectation,but as it was it would have been the very last thing he'd have expected. Thinking of what had happened in the past with Sheila and her " do's " he probably fully expected a good outcome rather than the one that there was. He was in disbelief and had asked to speak to his dad which was so very sad.
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I cannot imagine for one moment that JB could have killed his whole family including his two 6 year old nephews unless he had some kind of disorder or psychosis.
Killing all those people the way they were killed was so vile and so disturbing no one in their right mind could get through it, go home and turn up with the police a few hours later without a massive reaction. He was calm that was one of the things noticed about him, which seemed suspicious to some police at the time.
Being greedy is one thing but executing your family is a whole different ball game.
I didn't say he doesn't have a disorder or some form of psychosis, I believe him to be a bullet point psychopath.
But he didn't kill for a blood sport, didn't do it for the thrill, he saw his family as an inconvenience - in the way of the money that should be his and the lifestyle he saw himself as enjoying.
Maggie,statistics say that 1 in 10 prisoners have mental health issues,and those who have will be in places like Broadmoor and Ashworth.
It's been proven that Jeremy is neither psychotic nor a psychopath,as in 30 years of incarceration,nothing has shown itself that he's got either of these traits.
No it hasn't! ;D The OS posted something and worded it carefully to make it sound like he has been tested for psychopathy every year - and that's tricked you into believing it.
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Maggie,statistics say that 1 in 10 prisoners have mental health issues,and those who have will be in places like Broadmoor and Ashworth.
It's been proven that Jeremy is neither psychotic nor a psychopath,as in 30 years of incarceration,nothing has shown itself that he's got either of these traits.
He may have been calm at one point because he was NOT expecting the news which followed during the course of the morning. If he'd been play-acting,he'd have been putting on a huge act of pathos and hidden expectation,but as it was it would have been the very last thing he'd have expected. Thinking of what had happened in the past with Sheila and her " do's " he probably fully expected a good outcome rather than the one that there was. He was in disbelief and had asked to speak to his dad which was so very sad.
Lookout, those tests were nothing that isn't given to other prisoners. The authorities won't be interested in knowing whether or not he's a psychopath from tests. His behaviours would give a better indication.
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I have heard of this before. Big difference is this guy got a friend to execute the killing.
And Jeremy said he did! Obviously there are differences - I said it was similar.
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I didn't say he doesn't have a disorder or some form of psychosis, I believe him to be a bullet point psychopath.
But he didn't kill for a blood sport, didn't do it for the thrill, he saw his family as an inconvenience - in the way of the money that should be his and the lifestyle he saw himself as enjoying.
No it hasn't! ;D The OS posted something and worded it carefully to make it sound like he has been tested for psychopathy every year - and that's tricked you into believing it.
I agree Mat - total psychopath and he certainly hasn't been tested for psychopathy every year. It's a bog standard assessment that all prisoners get and it is designed to measure their dangerousness if they are released/escape into the community.
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Interesting to also note, Ewell too is still maintaining nonsense.
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I didn't say he doesn't have a disorder or some form of psychosis, I believe him to be a bullet point psychopath.
But he didn't kill for a blood sport, didn't do it for the thrill, he saw his family as an inconvenience - in the way of the money that should be his and the lifestyle he saw himself as enjoying.
You have no idea whether JB got a thrill out of killing his family, he may very well have done if he's a psychopath.
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You have no idea whether he got a thrill out of killing his family, he may very well have done if he's a psychopath.
He didn't actually do it himself he hired an assassin
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He didn't actually do it himself he hired an assassin
Sorry David was replying to mat's post about Jeremy Bamber.... oops off topic :o
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Mat I'm not stupid. I don't listen to anyone,as I've got my own ideas about the case without the need to follow,or " be tricked " by anyone,including the OS.
Once a year most,or all prisoners have assessments done on their mental health. My reason for not believing he's a psychopath is because I don't believe he murdered anyone.He wasn't even capable of murdering anyone ( not that you have to be capable,because you don't ) but it's obvious to me that he didn't do it and I've always stood firm in my belief.
Only an MRI scan would detect psychopathy as the brain shows a different frontal lobe pattern than that of a non-psychopath.
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You have no idea whether he got a thrill out of killing his family, he may very well have done if he's a psychopath.
;D
Do you just come into topics to quote and disagree with me, I am just giving my opinion. I believe he killed for financial gain. That was his motive. I think most people would agree his motive was financial. Instead of just quoting people and saying "I agree" or "I disagree" stick your neck out and have an opinion!
Mat I'm not stupid. I don't listen to anyone,as I've got my own ideas about the case without the need to follow,or " be tricked " by anyone,including the OS.
Once a year most,or all prisoners have assessments done on their mental health. My reason for not believing he's a psychopath is because I don't believe he murdered anyone.He wasn't even capable of murdering anyone ( not that you have to be capable,because you don't ) but it's obvious to me that he didn't do it and I've always stood firm in my belief.
Only an MRI scan would detect psychopathy as the brain shows a different frontal lobe pattern than that of a non-psychopath.
Well we can agree to disagree on much of this post.
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So even I can't say if he's a psychopath or not,as well as yourself because we simply don't know.
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It's been proven that Jeremy is neither psychotic nor a psychopath,
So even I can't say if he's a psychopath or not,as well as yourself because we simply don't know.
:o
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Lookout, those tests were nothing that isn't given to other prisoners. The authorities won't be interested in knowing whether or not he's a psychopath from tests. His behaviours would give a better indication.
Well his behaviour hasn't fluctuated in all these years,so that's answer enough.
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Well his behaviour hasn't fluctuated in all these years,so that's answer enough.
Well, there's no proof of that, but he has been moved on numerous occasions although it doesn't have to be because of unacceptable behaviours.
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You have no idea whether JB got a thrill out of killing his family, he may very well have done if he's a psychopath.
I tend to think it was a means to an end Maggie - the goal being the money, not the actual killing. I think there would be more examples of cruelty and violence in his past if he'd killed for pleasure.
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I tend to think it was a means to an end Maggie - the goal being the money, not the actual killing. I think there would be more examples of cruelty and violence in his past if he'd killed for pleasure.
If the family lived in a council house, with no savings, no money and no business - I don't think the crime would have happened at all.
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If the family lived in a council house, with no savings, no money and no business - I don't think the crime would have happened at all.
Only if someone was hogging the remote! >:( >:( >:( ;D ;D
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;D
Do you just come into topics to quote and disagree with me, I am just giving my opinion. I believe he killed for financial gain. That was his motive. I think most people would agree his motive was financial. Instead of just quoting people and saying "I agree" or "I disagree" stick your neck out and have an opinion!
I have many opinions mat some are best kept to myself.
I was reading the topic just as others do and I happened to misunderstand your post, I was under the impression that you believed anyone could carry out such a murder if they were greedy enough without being disordered, I just pointed out that I didn't believe anyone could kill in cold blood and create such mayhem unless they had a disorder..... that is my opinion.
If I agree with someone that is what I write just like anyone else.
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If the family lived in a council house, with no savings, no money and no business - I don't think the crime would have happened at all.
The public said the same about the McCanns.
It's got nothing to do with status as children are still killed under the circumstances that you've stated. Probably more so because of the crap conditions as one or both parents either drink or do drugs. Suicides are probably higher too.
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The public said the same about the McCanns.
It's got nothing to do with status as children are still killed under the circumstances that you've stated. Probably more so because of the crap conditions as one or both parents either drink or do drugs. Suicides are probably higher too.
Well I am talking about the WHF MURDER case.. not a child ABDUCTION.
Jeremy killed for financial gain. If there was no money, no savings, no business then I don't think Jeremy would have killed his family!
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The public said the same about the McCanns.
It's got nothing to do with status as children are still killed under the circumstances that you've stated. Probably more so because of the crap conditions as one or both parents either drink or do drugs. Suicides are probably higher too.
Murder for gain has EVERYTHING to do with status - you can't gain if there's nowt to gain!
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Murder for gain has EVERYTHING to do with status - you can't gain if there's nowt to gain!
Caroline I am happy I am getting through to you loud and clear! I was beginning to think I was talking in tongue, when really my point is clear. I think my point is purposefully being ignored/misunderstood. ;D
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Caroline I am happy I am getting through to you loud and clear! I was beginning to think I was talking in tongue, when really my point is clear. I think my point is purposefully being ignored/misunderstood. ;D
Mat, surely murder for gain is EXACTLY that. If there's nothing TO gain, if murder occurs it's for any number of OTHER reasons...........................isn't it(?)
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Mat, surely murder for gain is EXACTLY that. If there's nothing TO gain, if murder occurs it's for any number of OTHER reasons...........................isn't it(?)
Yes.
To put it SIMPLY.. in THIS case...
No Money. No Crime.
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Well I am talking about the WHF MURDER case.. not a child ABDUCTION.
Jeremy killed for financial gain. If there was no money, no savings, no business then I don't think Jeremy would have killed his family!
I didn't mention abduction ? The public along with Amaral ( top detective ) said that the McCanns had murdered their child.
JB didn't need to kill anyone for financial gain. He was getting paid very well on the farm,which he'd have already realised and if he'd needed money it would have seemed that all he had to do was ask either parent and the money was there.
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As I've already said,all JB had to do was ask and there'd be money provided-------just like that.
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As I've already said,all JB had to do was ask and there'd be money provided-------just like that.
Yes, Lookout, but he'd have probably had to explain why he wanted it and £18,000 per year that he had to work for isn't as tempting as £400,000(ish) which was all his.
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Yes, Lookout, but he'd have probably had to explain why he wanted it and £18,000 per year that he had to work for isn't as tempting as £400,000(ish) which was all his.
There comes a time when enough is enough, his parents were generous with him but I don't think him turning up cap in hand and being able to just take £££ time and time again rings true.
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As I've already said,all JB had to do was ask and there'd be money provided-------just like that.
He didn't want to ask or to have conditions placed up on him. If they were dead, he was master of his own destiny.
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There comes a time when enough is enough, his parents were generous with him but I don't think him turning up cap in hand and being able to just take £££ time and time again rings true.
Mat, I can quite see that there may have been a time when money was used as a carrot, ie if Jeremy did WHATEVER he would be generously recompensed OR was used as a bribe to keep him in order/control him(?) Where money is offered, in my experience there are often strings attached and those strings CAN bind one to the place one LEAST wants to be...................however, I'm NOT saying it's an excuse to murder.
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Mat, I can quite see that there may have been a time when money was used as a carrot, ie if Jeremy did WHATEVER he would be generously recompensed OR was used as a bribe to keep him in order/control him(?) Where money is offered, in my experience there are often strings attached and those strings CAN bind one to the place one LEAST wants to be...................however, I'm NOT saying it's an excuse to murder.
Makes a lot of sense JAPES! I can see his family knowing what his achilles heel is and that being money, so yeah I can imagine them using money as his carrot.
Being able to ask for a few hundred pounds here and there wouldn't satisfy him when he is aware how much money he could have to do as he please with no strings attached if his family were out of the way.
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Makes a lot of sense JAPES! I can see his family knowing what his achilles heel is and that being money, so yeah I can imagine them using money as his carrot.
Being able to ask for a few hundred pounds here and there wouldn't satisfy him when he is aware how much money he could have to do as he please with no strings attached if his family were out of the way.
Mat, it often starts by appearing to be given generously, as in, "You only have to ask", but because there's another agenda, it soon turns to "but we only gave you £X weeks/months ago. What do you want it for this time? This is the last time you get anything from us" That's often the time when the opportunity to cut lose has passed by. Anger, frustration I can understand. Murder is beyond my comprehension.
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Mat, I can quite see that there may have been a time when money was used as a carrot, ie if Jeremy did WHATEVER he would be generously recompensed OR was used as a bribe to keep him in order/control him(?) Where money is offered, in my experience there are often strings attached and those strings CAN bind one to the place one LEAST wants to be...................however, I'm NOT saying it's an excuse to murder.
If that was the case it may have taught him the wrong value to put on money.
It's better to just give it rather than to use it as some sort of a reward, I think
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Mat, it often starts by appearing to be given generously, as in, "You only have to ask", but because there's another agenda, it soon turns to "but we only gave you £X weeks/months ago. What do you want it for this time? This is the last time you get anything from us" That's often the time when the opportunity to cut lose has passed by. Anger, frustration I can understand. Murder is beyond my comprehension.
Same here but I think that's because we aren't pshycopaths I guess! ;D
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If that was the case it may have taught him the wrong value to put on money.
It's better to just give it rather than to use it as some sort of a reward, I think
I agree, but just not to often. I imagine it's difficult not to spoil adopted children? I guess Neill and June thought that they could steer both of them in the right direction. I wonder if Jeremy ever contemplated staying in New Zealand? It would have been better all round if he had.
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If that was the case it may have taught him the wrong value to put on money.
It's better to just give it rather than to use it as some sort of a reward, I think
Maggie, I think this had probably been habitual. We talk about his arrogance but actually it was that laid back assurance of someone who'd NEVER had to struggle. He could afford to do menial work because he had a background of wealth to cushion him. His background would have opened doors, locally, at least. It's very different from someone on a low income without financial backing.
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I agree, but just not to often. I imagine it's difficult not to spoil adopted children? I guess Neill and June thought that they could steer both of them in the right direction. I wonder if Jeremy ever contemplated staying in New Zealand? It would have been better all round if he had.
I should think they were spoiled with material stuff when they were growing up and got used to believing money would always come to them and they could have anything they wanted. That isn't good at all. I read reecently that adopted children who don't bond deeply with their adoptive mother can attach too much importance to objects and material things which may account for Jeremy's need for money. :-\
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I agree, but just not to often. I imagine it's difficult not to spoil adopted children? I guess Neill and June thought that they could steer both of them in the right direction. I wonder if Jeremy ever contemplated staying in New Zealand? It would have been better all round if he had.
Part of the problem, Caroline, is that back then, all that was required to adopt a child was respectability and a steady income/healthy finances. Any affection for the child was seen as secondary. It was enough that "good" people were prepared to spend their money and give a home to children no one else wanted. It was that which constituted love.
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Maggie, I think this had probably been habitual. We talk about his arrogance but actually it was that laid back assurance of someone who'd NEVER had to struggle. He could afford to do menial work because he had a background of wealth to cushion him. His background would have opened doors, locally, at least. It's very different from someone on a low income without financial backing.
Absolutely April, you do come across this situation quite often. It's easy to drop out of college and bum around doing whatever takes your fancy at the time when you have a wealthy background and an assured income.
Nothing like a bit of struggling to teach the realities of life.
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I should think they were spoiled with material stuff when they were growing up and got used to believing money would always come to them and they could have anything they wanted. That isn't good at all. I read reecently that adopted children who don't bond deeply with their adoptive mother can attach too much importance to objects and material things which may account for Jeremy's need for money. :-\
It's very easy to equate the amount of money spent with the amount of affection felt, VERY especially if REAL affection isn't given. It more and more becomes a question of more is more.
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Part of the problem, Caroline, is that back then, all that was required to adopt a child was respectability and a steady income/healthy finances. Any affection for the child was seen as secondary. It was enough that "good" people were prepared to spend their money and give a home to children no one else wanted. It was that which constituted love.
It's true and I saw it in action years ago when I worked for Social Services. Matching the colour of hair and eyes was near the top of the list as well.
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Coming back to the Dana Ewell case there certainly are parallels with Jeremy Bamber: a good-looking young man,who seemingly wanted for nothing,yet a certain tension existing between father and son as the son matured into adolescence. It's interesting that David mentioned an assassin for hire because that's what Dana Ewell did,suggesting that he wasn't comfortable in perpetrating the crime himself as he may still have felt some emotional attachment to his sister. There's an article about the murders here: https://krazykillers.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/nine-years-leaves-a-nasty-numbskull-nilhilist-nonplussed-and-nauseous/
and a youtube video here: https://youtu.be/mNFBHKkN3no