Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: mike tesko on April 10, 2013, 01:36:PM
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Is anyone interested in the truth...
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Good Afternoon Mike,
Please count me in for this. I wonder how it will equate with the apparent fiction from Steve uk ?
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Julie Mugford was present at 9 Head street, Goldhanger, when Jeremy made a witness statement to DC Clarke, and DS Jones, about events leading up to, and including time spent at the scene during the seige stage, entry to the premises, and afterwards. One of the most striking recollections she overheard him telling Clarke and Jones about, related to the sighting of the figure at the main bedroom window. As he reiterated his recollection to the police all about this, DC Clarke and DS Jones took handwritten notes, jotting down every detail...
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well theres 2 possble reasons 1 she maid it all up.
2 she pissed off becouse she wouldent be getting her share of the money.
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The real reason Mugford did not come forward with her story until a month later, is because she overheard Jeremy telling Clarke and Jones that they had seen someone moving around in the bedroom, and Mugford knew that Jsremy wouldn't make something up like that, especially when everything Jeremy was saying, was being written down. She heard Jeremy name two police officers who had been alongside him when the person was seen moving ariund in the bedroom, and she must have realised that whoever that person was, it meant that by that stage (time of the sighting at around 4am), there was someone alive inside the farmhouse, and Jeremy could not have killed all five victims himself...
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The real reason Mugford did not come forward with her story until a month later, is because she overheard Jeremy telling Clarke and Jones that they had seen someone moving around in the bedroom, and Mugford knew that Jsremy wouldn't make something up like that, especially when everything Jeremy was saying, was being written down. She heard Jeremy name two police officers who had been alongside him when the person was seen moving ariund in the bedroom, and she must have realised that whoever that person was, it meant that by that stage (time of the sighting at around 4am), there was someone alive inside the farmhouse, and Jeremy could not have killed all five victims himself...
At that stage Mugford must have genuinely believed that Jeremy, could not have had any involvement in the killings...
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At that stage Mugford must have genuinely believed that Jeremy could not have had any involvement in the killings...
Mike,,she was co-erced,,no doubt about that. £sd signs.
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Mike,,she was co-erced,,no doubt about that. £sd signs.
Lookout, yes, I think she was coerced, and this coercement took place at different stages, involving DS Jones, and others...
At the beginning, from the morning of the shootings, and until Robert Boutflour went to see ACC Simpson, on 6th September 1985, Mugford believed that Jeremy had not killed anyone. She came to this conclusion, as a result of specific information she overheard Jeremy telling the police about, and also from recieving information directly from the police, namely DC Clarke, and DS Jones - at this stage, or during this period, Mugford was happy to accept that Sheila had shot and killed the others, and that then, she had taken her own life, on the bed...
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Lookout, yes, I think she was coerced, and this coercement took place at different stages, involving DS Jones, and others...
At the beginning, from the morning of the shootings, and until Robert Boutflour went to see ACC Simpson, on 6th September 1985, Mugford believed that Jeremy had not killed anyone. She came to this conclusion, as a result of specific information she overheard Jeremy telling the police about, and also from recieving information directly from the police, namely DC Clarke, and DS Jones - at this stage, or during this period, Mugford was happy to accept that Sheila had shot and killed the others, and then she had taken her own life, on the bed...
If you examine the historical facts regarding Mugfords involvement in the proceedings from start to finish, it becomes absolutely clear that her behaviour during that first month (7th August to 6th September 1985) gives a clear indication that she must have believed that Sheila really had been responsible for killing the others, and then herself...
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During this first phase, she enjoyed life to the full, and behaved in a manner consistent with her belief that Jeremy had played no role, whatsoever, in any of the five deaths, for all the reasons given, aforementioned...
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PHASE 1:-
Julie Mugford, accepts that Jeremy Bamber, played no role, in the shootings...
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On, or directly after Robert Boutflour goes to see ACC Peter Simpson, on 6th September 1985 - things had taken a turn for the worse in the relationship stakes, between Jeremy, and Mugsy, money bags...
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PHASE 1:-
Julie Mugford, accepts that Jeremy Bamber, played no role, in the shootings...
This isn't true at all. Julie asked Jeremy about his involvement that first night at Goldhanger after the Police had gone and this is when he told her "No..I couldn't have done it..Matthew done it".
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Hello steve why may I ask did Julie not go to the police the very next day and tell them what Jeremy had told her. Strange she waited till he had called their relationship off. ;)
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Hello steve why may I ask did Julie not go to the police the very next day and tell them what Jeremy had told her. Strange she waited till he had called their relationship off. ;)
She was still in love with him even at that late stage,she didn't want him to go to prison,the head of the investigation DCI Taff Jones had declared the matter four murders and a suicide and she was just a student teacher with a criminal past to conceal.
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This isn't true at all. Julie asked Jeremy about his involvement that first night at Goldhanger after the Police had gone and this is when he told her "No..I couldn't have done it..Matthew done it".
Why did she ask him? Hadn't he already discussed plans for a whole year, eventually deciding on a hitman and even telling her the night previously that 'it's tonight or never'? Strangely though, she also mentioned to Colin which window JB allegedly left by. She just doesn't have a definitive 'story'
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The Jeremy supporters have to tread carefully as they are well aware with Julie,because it's incompatible with Jeremy's innocence if he told her too much. It was all in his head so Julie thought and she just didn't take him seriously,which one can understand. I'm trying to grasp this new angle of the trick of the light story but so far the light is dimming on this thread as far as I'm concerned.
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Mugford couldn't come forward with her story about Jeremy planning to kill his family, because she overheard him telling Clarke and Jones that two police officers and Jeremy had seen someone moving around in the bedroom, at a time when Jeremy was outside in the grounds, so he could hardly have killed everyone before phoning police - not only that but Jeremy told her that he thought police had shot Sheila when they stormed the building, and that he had complained to a police officer at the scene about the prospect of this having happened...
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The Jeremy supporters have to tread carefully as they are well aware with Julie,because it's incompatible with Jeremy's innocence if he told her too much. It was all in his head so Julie thought and she just didn't take him seriously,which one can understand. I'm trying to grasp this new angle of the trick of the light story but so far the light is dimming on this thread as far as I'm concerned.
Why do we have to tread carefully? That doesn't make any sense.
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As far as I was aware Jeremy made a throwaway remark about the raid team shooting his family when he was either sitting in the back of a Police car or walking away from the farm with Dr. Craig. He couldn't possibly have known the actions of the Raid Team that morning. As for Sheila,are we now led to believe that she shot four people after Nevill's purported call to Jeremy at 3:26am and was still walking round inside with everyone else dead by the time of the Police arrival at 3:48am? She suddenly comes out of psychosis and decides to shoot herself,when there's a likelihood that a real schizophrenic would have come out to meet Police cradling her dead sons in her arms.
I don't understand how Julie can know more than Jeremy about the murders if he is completely innocent. Why would Julie stick to the story which made her look bad of Jeremy plotting the murders for a year? The Jeremy supporters are walking a tightrope in making Julie culpable because it's impossible she knew about the plan beforehand without the knowledge coming from Jeremy first.
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This isn't true at all. Julie asked Jeremy about his involvement that first night at Goldhanger after the Police had gone and this is when he told her "No..I couldn't have done it..Matthew done it".
You cant be serious? You actually believe that?
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As far as I was aware Jeremy made a throwaway remark about the raid team shooting his family when he was either sitting in the back of a Police car or walking away from the farm with Dr. Craig. He couldn't possibly have known the actions of the Raid Team that morning. As for Sheila,are we now led to believe that she shot four people after Nevill's purported call to Jeremy at 3:26am and was still walking round inside with everyone else dead by the time of the Police arrival at 3:48am? She suddenly comes out of psychosis and decides to shoot herself,when there's a likelihood that a real schizophrenic would have come out to meet Police cradling her dead sons in her arms.
I don't understand how Julie can know more than Jeremy about the murders if he is completely innocent. Why would Julie stick to the story which made her look bad of Jeremy plotting the murders for a year? The Jeremy supporters are walking a tightrope in making Julie culpable because it's impossible she knew about the plan beforehand without the knowledge coming from Jeremy first.
This has been answered so many times that I can't quite believe you're asking it again.
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This has been answered so many times that I can't quite believe you're asking it again.
I know how you feel Caroline, I felt the same about the window. Harder to believe was the fact that I was answering it yet again.... :'( :'(
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This has been answered so many times that I can't quite believe you're asking it again.
Well people will keep posting these old canard threads,won't they?
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Well people will keep posting these old canard threads,won't they?
It only made her look bad at the end of the trial when it was published in the NOTW however, she had £25,000.00 to help her get over it! I don't understand the rest of your point because obviously JB supporters don't think he's guilty so obviously she didn't know about the 'plan' beforehand - simply because there was no plan!!
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Well people will keep posting these old canard threads,won't they?
Steve,,you're priceless. :)
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Good Afternoon Mike,
Please count me in for this. I wonder how it will equate with the apparent fiction from Steve uk ?
Steve has been quiet recently, we must brace ourselves for further book quotes .
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Why do we have to tread carefully? That doesn't make any sense.
perhaps steve has scattered drawing pins everywhere so watch out in yer bare feet
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Mugford being female in gender goes a long way into the police buying her story , which just what is was .
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perhaps steve has scattered drawing pins everywhere so watch out in yer bare feet
Ha, ha! I'll watch my step then :D
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The Jeremy supporters have to tread carefully as they are well aware with Julie,because it's incompatible with Jeremy's innocence if he told her too much. It was all in his head so Julie thought and she just didn't take him seriously,which one can understand. I'm trying to grasp this new angle of the trick of the light story but so far the light is dimming on this thread as far as I'm concerned.
That is probably because you only believe the light that filters through the chinks of your own roof.
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So hard for me to read all this Julie-praise. She is a scumbag one way or the other. If Jeremy is guilty, she was in on it, she could have saved five lives. If Jeremy is innocent, she threw his life away without a second thought. No wonder she quickly gathered her loot and basically fled England.
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So hard for me to read all this Julie-praise. She is a scumbag one way or the other. If Jeremy is guilty, she was in on it, she could have saved five lives. If Jeremy is innocent, she threw his life away without a second thought. No wonder she quickly gathered her loot and basically fled England.
winner take all, steve clearly has no issue with the pay money deal, well i do.
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So hard for me to read all this Julie-praise. She is a scumbag one way or the other. If Jeremy is guilty, she was in on it, she could have saved five lives. If Jeremy is innocent, she threw his life away without a second thought. No wonder she quickly gathered her loot and basically fled England.
That about sums up my sentiments also Alias!!
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That is probably because you only believe the light that filters through the chinks of your own roof.
That rings bells, is that a quote from someone?
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During phase 1 of the proceedings Mugford could not possibly have known or suspected that Jeremy had killed his family - she knew about the sighting of a person in the upstairs bedroom window, observed by two police officers and Jeremy, whilst he was outside in the grounds, so obviously in her mind at that stage, how could Jeremy be responsible for killing someone who was still alive upstairs in the bedroom? Mugford also knew the reason why Jeremy complained to PS Saxby that police had shot and killed his family - she knew that Jeremy thought police had shot his family because at the time news was broke to him about his family all being found dead, jeremy had no idea that anyone had been shot at all, and this was reinforced in his mind because of the sighting of a person alive amd moving around inside the house...
If there was / is any truth at all in Mugfords stories which she introduced along the way, it must have been confusing to think that for a year or so, Jeremy had been openly planning to kill his family, and then along comes Sheila who does the job for him - it must have been Sheila because there was someone still alive, moving around in the upstairs bedroom., and besides police said Sheila had done it...
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Between phase 1, and phase 2, Mugford went through a period of transformation - she came to realize that Jeremy was showing more interest in other people, rather than her...
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When phase 2 came along at the beginning of September 1985, Mugford introduced the hitman theory in her attempt to get revenge on Jeremy for dumping her like a piece of garbage in the dustbin. She had to come up with a story like this, to account for the sighting of the person, inside the upstairs bedroom at a time Jeremy was outside in the grounds in the company of the police...
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When phase 2 came along at the beginning of September 1985, Mugford introduced the hitman theory in her attempt to get revenge on Jeremy for dumping her like a piece of garbage in the dustbin. She had to come up with a story like this, to account for the sighting of the person, inside the upstairs bedroom at a time Jeremy was outside in the grounds in the company of the police...
One of the two police officers, (PCMyall) who witnessed the person moving around in the upstairs bedroom window, requested that a full fingerprint examination should be carried out in the main bedroom, to assist in identifying the person seen by PS Bews, Jeremy, and himself...
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One of the two police officers, (PCMyall) who witnessed the person moving around in the upstairs bedroom window, requested that a full fingerprint examination should be carried out in the main bedroom, to assist in identifying the person seen by PS Bews, Jeremy, and himself...
Police set up an operation, under the title of, "MAJOR INCIDENT PROJECT", designed to try and identify unidentified males, females, and motor vehicles. The very first entty in the log refers to a sighting of an unknown man, seen by PC Myall at the scene at 3:45am...
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That rings bells, is that a quote from someone?
Can't remember? I think it was C.H. Spurgeon.
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winner take all, steve clearly has no issue with the pay money deal, well i do.
Anji Greaves was waiting ensconced at another London hotel with a £50,000 deal had Jeremy been acquitted. It's the nature of chequebook journalism which I hate but in a free society is difficult to expunge.
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During phase 1 of the proceedings Mugford could not possibly have known or suspected that Jeremy had killed his family - she knew about the sighting of a person in the upstairs bedroom window, observed by two police officers and Jeremy, whilst he was outside in the grounds, so obviously in her mind at that stage, how could Jeremy be responsible for killing someone who was still alive upstairs in the bedroom? Mugford also knew the reason why Jeremy complained to PS Saxby that police had shot and killed his family - she knew that Jeremy thought police had shot his family because at the time news was broke to him about his family all being found dead, jeremy had no idea that anyone had been shot at all, and this was reinforced in his mind because of the sighting of a person alive amd moving around inside the house...
If there was / is any truth at all in Mugfords stories which she introduced along the way, it must have been confusing to think that for a year or so, Jeremy had been openly planning to kill his family, and then along comes Sheila who does the job for him - it must have been Sheila because there was someone still alive, moving around in the upstairs bedroom., and besides police said Sheila had done it...
Julie didn't want to think the worst of a man she was still in love with,which Jeremy sensed and gave her the hitman story sop. How could Julie possibly resign herself to being a de facto accomplice in the murders by her omission in going back to bed after the second telephone call after a day at work feeling the after-effects of cannabis? She was naturally looking for explanations which would exculpate both Jeremy and herself,but none were forthcoming.
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When phase 2 came along at the beginning of September 1985, Mugford introduced the hitman theory in her attempt to get revenge on Jeremy for dumping her like a piece of garbage in the dustbin. She had to come up with a story like this, to account for the sighting of the person, inside the upstairs bedroom at a time Jeremy was outside in the grounds in the company of the police...
No,Julie realized that the investigation was taking on a different turn by dint of the relatives' efforts. The last thing Julie wanted was involvement of the Police with her criminal history but her hand was forced by events. If Julie was determined to be believed when she did finally contact Police give her enough nous to concoct a better story than the one she came up with about the hitman which Jeremy had fed her.
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Julie didn't want to think the worst of a man she was still in love with,which Jeremy sensed and gave her the hitman story sop. How could Julie possibly resign herself to being a de facto accomplice in the murders by her omission in going back to bed after the second telephone call after a day at work feeling the after-effects of cannabis? She was naturally looking for explanations which would exculpate both Jeremy and herself,but none were forthcoming.
Well, exactly here her story does not add up one bit. According to her, Jeremy called her at 10 pm and said "It´s tonight or never". In her "diary" she writes that she sighed with relief because she assumed it was "end of subject" (???), went on to chat with her friends, then went to bed, and when Jeremy called her later in the night, she told him to go back to bed.
Please explain the logic in this to me, because I don´t get it. Was she totally out of it-wasted on drugs, or what???
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Well, exactly here her story does not add up one bit. According to her, Jeremy called her at 10 pm and said "It´s tonight or never". In her "diary" she writes that she sighed with relief because she assumed it was "end of subject" (???), went on to chat with her friends, then went to bed, and when Jeremy called her later in the night, she told him to go back to bed.
Please explain the logic in this to me, because I don´t get it. Was she totally out of it-wasted on drugs, or what???
If you've been working as a student teacher trying to keep in with your new school and the university in addition to your teaching duties and all the administration writing up notes at night whilst trying to keep a smile on your face at all times,then it seems additionally Julie had a part-time job during the holidays it's no wonder with delayed fatigue Julie just wanted a good night's sleep. She must have hoped that Jeremy had settled down to farming that last year as the Jeremy supporters are so keen on telling us when it suits.
What a terrible tragedy Jeremy unleashed,the irony being that his parents had moved as far as they were able that final year to accommodate him despite his taunting of Nevill at every opportunity and Jeremy's continual haranguing of his mother for money. It very nearly was "never" in the "now or never" remark and Julie must have prayed that this was so.
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If you've been working as a student teacher trying to keep in with your new school and the university in addition to your teaching duties and all the administration writing up notes at night whilst trying to keep a smile on your face at all times,then it seems additionally Julie had a part-time job during the holidays it's no wonder with delayed fatigue Julie just wanted a good night's sleep. She must have hoped that Jeremy had settled down to farming that last year as the Jeremy supporters are so keen on telling us when it suits.
What a terrible tragedy Jeremy unleashed,the irony being that his parents had moved as far as they were able that final year to accommodate him despite his taunting of Nevill at every
opportunity and Jeremy's continual haranguing of his mother for money. It very nearly was "never" in the "now or never" remark and Julie must have prayed that this was so.
So Alias, they died because Julie wanted a good nights sleep.....sorted!!
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If you've been working as a student teacher trying to keep in with your new school and the university in addition to your teaching duties and all the administration writing up notes at night whilst trying to keep a smile on your face at all times,then it seems additionally Julie had a part-time job during the holidays it's no wonder with delayed fatigue Julie just wanted a good night's sleep. She must have hoped that Jeremy had settled down to farming that last year as the Jeremy supporters are so keen on telling us when it suits.
What a terrible tragedy Jeremy unleashed,the irony being that his parents had moved as far as they were able that final year to accommodate him despite his taunting of Nevill at every opportunity and Jeremy's continual haranguing of his mother for money. It very nearly was "never" in the "now or never" remark and Julie must have prayed that this was so.
Have you got examples of Jeremy taunting his father? I know that it is recorded that his father called him a nancy boy. But I don't remember reading any taunts from Jeremy?
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If you've been working as a student teacher trying to keep in with your new school and the university in addition to your teaching duties and all the administration writing up notes at night whilst trying to keep a smile on your face at all times,then it seems additionally Julie had a part-time job during the holidays it's no wonder with delayed fatigue Julie just wanted a good night's sleep. She must have hoped that Jeremy had settled down to farming that last year as the Jeremy supporters are so keen on telling us when it suits.
What a terrible tragedy Jeremy unleashed,the irony being that his parents had moved as far as they were able that final year to accommodate him despite his taunting of Nevill at every opportunity and Jeremy's continual haranguing of his mother for money. It very nearly was "never" in the "now or never" remark and Julie must have prayed that this was so.
I still don´t get it, How can "it´s tonight or never" equal "end of subject" - how? Her account does not add up - one bit.
And please, Julie was a young and strong woman, this fatigue thing is not washing with me. If anything, she was wasted on drugs, maybe.
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So Alias, they died because Julie wanted a good nights sleep.....sorted!!
A decision Julie made which very probably has haunted her for nearly 28 years and which will stay with her for the rest of her life.
Of course I'm glad that the Jeremy supporters have finally accepted the veracity and the provenance of the remark which makes Jeremy firmly guilty..
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So Alias, they died because Julie wanted a good nights sleep.....sorted!!
Yap, looks like it. No, she was "praying" that Jeremy wouldn´t do it - then went to sleep.... yaya
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Have you got examples of Jeremy taunting his father? I know that it is recorded that his father called him a nancy boy. But I don't remember reading any taunts from Jeremy?
It's in Ann Eaton's statement,and that would only be what she overheard in her presence,not what happened behind closed doors at the Farm.
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A decision Julie made which very probably has haunted her for nearly 28 years and which will stay with her for the rest of her life.
Of course I'm glad that the Jeremy supporters have finally accepted the veracity and the provenance of the remark which makes Jeremy firmly guilty..
I am not a Jeremy supporter, I don´t know who committed the murders; but if Jeremy is guilty, Julie was most definitely in on it and I have NO tolerance to any defense of her. NONE.
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I still don´t get it, How can "it´s tonight or never" equal "end of subject" - how? Her account does not add up - one bit.
And please, Julie was a young and strong woman, this fatigue thing is not washing with me. If anything, she was wasted on drugs, maybe.
It's delayed fatigue as when you run on adrenaline during term-time and realize how shattered you can be at the end. As for the "tonight or never" it's in the context of Jeremy's immature language and behaviour(as I read one of his letters to Mike the other day I noticed he had drawn a smiley face mid-sentence). There were the practical jokes Jeremy revelled in playing on fellow guests which Julie occasionally had a hand in,and one recalls the Headmaster at Gresham's Bruce Logie Lockhart that Jeremy was "a relentless tease".
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It's delayed fatigue as when you run on adrenaline during term-time and realize how shattered you can be at the end. As for the "tonight or never" it's in the context of Jeremy's immature language and behaviour(as I read one of his letters to Mike the other day I noticed he had drawn a smiley face mid-sentence). There were the practical jokes Jeremy revelled in playing on fellow guests which Julie occasionally had a hand in,and one recalls the Headmaster at Gresham's Bruce Logie Lockhart that Jeremy was "a relentless tease".
But she had been listening to Jeremy talking about killing his family for a year..... so she says. So when he finally said "It´s tonight or never" - she sighed with relief....
Julie is/was a scumbag, Steve, nothing you say will change my mind, because it is all just wishful thinking on your part.
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But she had been listening to Jeremy talking about killing his family for a year..... so she says. So when he finally said "It´s tonight or never" - she sighed with relief....
Julie is/was a scumbag, Steve, nothing you say will change my mind, because it is all just wishful thinking on your part.
She told him to "go back to bed",not to go ahead and slaughter five members of his family.
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Julie said she was drinking and smoking dope with her friends all evening,not "writing up notes"! Good for her that she can remember so much about what occurred/was said that night despite very probably being pissed and stoned...oh,and very tired!
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It's delayed fatigue as when you run on adrenaline during term-time and realize how shattered you can be at the end. As for the "tonight or never" it's in the context of Jeremy's immature language and behaviour(as I read one of his letters to Mike the other day I noticed he had drawn a smiley face mid-sentence). There were the practical jokes Jeremy revelled in playing on fellow guests which Julie occasionally had a hand in,and one recalls the Headmaster at Gresham's Bruce Logie Lockhart that Jeremy was "a relentless tease".
Immaturity doesn't/can't shoot five people dead,Steve. Nor a practical joker.
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She told him to "go back to bed",not to go ahead and slaughter five members of his family.
No, that was later - and that is where nothing makes sense. I think Julie made it all up, and this part, for some reason, was hard for her to get straight.
OR she was in on it, and her account is slanted towards removing/reducing her involvement/knowledge of what was about to happen.
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My husband has been talking about killing his mum and dad for a year. I am really tired of listening to it, he goes on and on about it, yadda, yadda, but I went to my doctor to get some sleeping pills, just to shut him up for a while - hubby wanted to test them out on mum and dad, because he thought of drugging them and burning down their house.
Last night he said "It´s tonight or never!", I sighed with relief. I was so tired, I had been working all week, so I went, like, whatever, and went to sleep. I wonder if they are alive today, but I am too tired to check. Whatever.
P.S. I have managed to keep a smile on my face - even today.
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tyler don't forget inspite of all this she managed to keep a smile on her face ;D ;D ;D ;D
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alias you better go and check and see if they are OK ;D ;D ;D ;D
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tyler don't forget inspite of all this she managed to keep a smile on her face ;D ;D ;D ;D
HAHAHA
Yea, bet she smiled all the way to the bank.
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I wonder what JM's stance would have been had JB not " dropped " her.
I'm almost sure that had JB carried out the murders,that no way would he have dropped JM at that crucial time.
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Julie said she was drinking and smoking dope with her friends all evening,not "writing up notes"! Good for her that she can remember so much about what occurred/was said that night despite very probably being pissed and stoned...oh,and very tired!
Tyler, you've said it just how it was/is for some. I've spent many a boozy night with teacher friends only to have one of them throw a pile of books at me to mark for them at 3 in the morning. Julie clearly wasn't stressed up enough to see the sense in keeping her head clear for the next day, preferring instead, the after effects of alcohol and drugs.
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alias she managed a smile and a pose for the newspaper straight after the love of her life had been sentenced to serve a life sentence. Julie had to deal with very difficult situations but always managed a smile ;D ;D ;D
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alias she managed a smile and a pose for the newspaper straight after the love of her life had been sentenced to serve a life sentence. Julie had to deal with very difficult situations but always managed a smile ;D ;D ;D
I'd smile too if 25 grand was being dangled under my nose. ;D
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alias she managed a smile and a pose for the newspaper straight after the love of her life had been sentenced to serve a life sentence. Julie had to deal with very difficult situations but always managed a smile ;D ;D ;D
Yuppers, she´s smiling all right, darling Julie, and I bet she was very tired and all.
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The innocent party.!
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Under his spell--------------and under his body after the murders.!
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Under his spell--------------and under his body after the murders.!
but she was tired, so.
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but she was tired, so.
I'm sure she was Alias. ::)
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Yuppers, she´s smiling all right, darling Julie, and I bet she was very tired and all.
And that, folks, is the woman Steve worships. I feel perfectly certain that the Canadian interview board was NOT privy to that piece of pornography..........or the picture, either.
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You're all mixing things up chronologically so let me elucidate. The plot to kill five people was Jeremy's and Jeremy's alone and whether by Julie's acquiescence as some maintain Jeremy was buttressed in his determination is something Julie will have to live with for the rest of her life.
At one of the few meetings they had alone together at Blazer's restaurant,Blackheath after the murders Jeremy told her "not to blame yourself..I would have gone ahead with it anyway" and one wonders just when the following occasion would have been when all five family members were together under one roof just as they had planned to be at Christmas 1984,when Jeremy's preferred method of killing on that occasion was arson and not shooting,as related by independent witness Charles Marsden.
As far as the aftermath of the murders was concerned,Jeremy's plan had been successfully accomplished,he had fooled no less a man than the head of the investigation DCI Taff Jones,and it was evidently Jeremy's intention to play for time when ineluctably the murders however horrific would gradually fade from public memory.
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And that, folks, is the woman Steve worships. I feel perfectly certain that the Canadian interview board was NOT privy to that piece of pornography..........or the picture, either.
It is much worse than simply a sleazy picture. She posed like that on the back of five murders including little kids. The horrible tragedy "sexed up" in a trashy magazine. My mind boggles, and I wonder what is going on in her mind. Doesn´t seem sane, there is something wrong with this woman.
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It is much worse than simply a sleazy picture. She posed like that on the back of five murders including little kids. The horrible tragedy "sexed up" in a trashy magazine. My mind boggles, and I wonder what is going on in her mind. Doesn´t seem sane, there is something wrong with this woman.
Julie wasn't responsible for the way that story was depicted. It was 1980s and a sign of the times one could not better encapsulate for those who did not live through that period.
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A distinct lack of morals. June was so right in her judgement of a " harlot ".
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You're all mixing things up chronologically so let me elucidate. The plot to kill five people was Jeremy's and Jeremy's alone and whether by Julie's acquiescence as some maintain Jeremy was buttressed in his determination is something Julie will have to live with for the rest of her life.
At one of the few meetings they had alone together at Blazer's restaurant,Blackheath after the murders Jeremy told her "not to blame yourself..I would have gone ahead with it anyway" and one wonders just when the following occasion would have been when all five family members were together under one roof just as they had planned to be at Christmas 1984,when Jeremy's preferred method of killing on that occasion was arson and not shooting,as related by independent witness Charles Marsden.
As far as the aftermath of the murders was concerned,Jeremy's plan had been successfully accomplished,he had fooled no less a man than the head of the investigation DCI Taff Jones,and it was evidently Jeremy's intention to play for time when ineluctably the murders however horrific would gradually fade from public memory.
Steve,,you certainly did a lot of " overhearing ".Were you a waiter at the said restaurant.?
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A distinct lack of morals. June was so right in her judgement of a " harlot ".
I doubt anyone would have been good enough for her son. She should have been grateful he didn't marry Brett Collins.
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Julie wasn't responsible for the way that story was depicted. It was 1980s and a sign of the times one could not better encapsulate for those who did not live through that period.
I do not agree. This is unacceptable behaviour no matter if it is 1284, 1914, 1944, 1984 or 2013. It is a clear indicator of Julie´s character. I wonder how the relatives of the Bamber family felt about this, I wonder how Colin Caffell felt.
My guess is that Julie didn´t care one bit, she got her money!
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Steve,,you certainly did a lot of " overhearing ".Were you a waiter at the said restaurant.?
Or perhaps chief cook and bottle-washer.?
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Or perhaps chief cook and bottle-washer.?
Then I wouldn't have overheard anything in that role..
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Julie wasn't responsible for the way that story was depicted. It was 1980s and a sign of the times one could not better encapsulate for those who did not live through that period.
And I suppose the poor, sweet innocent was not responsible for the frankly slutty, make up, clothes and pose, either.
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Julie wasn't responsible for the way that story was depicted. It was 1980s and a sign of the times one could not better encapsulate for those who did not live through that period.
Oh,,I lived through that period alright Steve,unfortunately,or I wouldn't be as old as I am now. The NOTW was full of those sort of titillations and fripperies before porn took over. Not a newspaper that entered my home I might add.
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And I suppose the poor, sweet innocent was not responsible for the frankly slutty, make up, clothes and pose, either.
Notice how she is wearing what looks like a nightgown (with a belt - sheesh!). The victims were wearing nightgowns....
YUK
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Notice how she is wearing what looks like a nightgown (with a belt - sheesh!). The victims were wearing nightgowns....
YUK
Gawd,Alias,,what a thought.Sickening.
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When Jeremy was allegedly telling Julie of his plans for murder,why didn't she express her horror and disgust to him? Especially since two little boys were involved in these "plans". She didn't appear to express her emotion in the aftermath either. No tears after viewing their lifeless little bodies at the mortuary and no sorrow or guilt expressed in her NOTW "story". It seems to me that out of the two of them,Julie is the one with the personality disorder!
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Alias, Will you kindly ascertain from Steve uk, the matter of June's 'Black Eye'?
It is stated in Venizes' Autopsy Report at p13 on June Bamber, under Other External Injuries:-Head Neck
- 'There was bruising and swelling to the left eye'.
Apparently, there was an altercation at WHF, with June calling Muggy a harlot, and June received the Black Eye in response. It has been stated that, that is the reason for Muggy agreeing, or volunteering, to identify the victims at the Autopsy!
The reason for June's 'Sit up and Beg' bicycle being at Bourtree Cottage, was to enable Muggy to cycle to Goldhanger Fruit Farm's offices, where Nevill had arranged for her to earn some money,
in her vacation from studies and teacher training.
This scenario, apparently accounts for Muggy's quick change of plans and sudden move back to Lewisham.
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Food for thought there,Campion.
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Alias, Will you kindly ascertain from Steve uk, the matter of June's 'Black Eye'?
It is stated in Venizes' Autopsy Report at p13 on June Bamber, under Other External Injuries:-Head Neck
- 'There was bruising and swelling to the left eye'.
Apparently, there was an altercation at WHF, with June calling Muggy a harlot, and June received the Black Eye in response. It has been stated that, that is the reason for Muggy agreeing, or volunteering, to identify the victims at the Autopsy!
The reason for June's 'Sit up and Beg' bicycle being at Bourtree Cottage, was to enable Muggy to cycle to Goldhanger Fruit Farm's offices, where Nevill had arranged for her to earn some money,
in her vacation from studies and teacher training.
This scenario, apparently accounts for Muggy's quick change of plans and sudden move back to Lewisham.
But Julie had been working in London the very day Jeremy telephoned her in the evening so that job must have fallen through. I thought the black eye was nearer the time of the murders and not during the early stages of Jeremy and Julie's courtship when the "harlot" remark was made,but I may be wrong on this.
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Alias, Will you kindly ascertain from Steve uk, the matter of June's 'Black Eye'?
It is stated in Venizes' Autopsy Report at p13 on June Bamber, under Other External Injuries:-Head Neck
- 'There was bruising and swelling to the left eye'.
Apparently, there was an altercation at WHF, with June calling Muggy a harlot, and June received the Black Eye in response. It has been stated that, that is the reason for Muggy agreeing, or volunteering, to identify the victims at the Autopsy!
The reason for June's 'Sit up and Beg' bicycle being at Bourtree Cottage, was to enable Muggy to cycle to Goldhanger Fruit Farm's offices, where Nevill had arranged for her to earn some money,
in her vacation from studies and teacher training.
This scenario, apparently accounts for Muggy's quick change of plans and sudden move back to Lewisham.
Never heard that Julie might have given June the black eye. She did try to strangle Jeremy and wanted to stab a teddy bear (!), so she did have a violent disposition.
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When Jeremy was allegedly telling Julie of his plans for murder,why didn't she express her horror and disgust to him? Especially since two little boys were involved in these "plans". She didn't appear to express her emotion in the aftermath either. No tears after viewing their lifeless little bodies at the mortuary and no sorrow or guilt expressed in her NOTW "story". It seems to me that out of the two of them,Julie is the one with the personality disorder!
She did say words to the effect "why did Sheila and the twins have to die?" but she got to a point where argumentation was no longer effective and like most people would she told him she didn't want to hear any more. This scenario,of course makes Jeremy as guilty as hell..
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She did say words to the effect "why did Sheila and the twins have to die?" but she got to a point where argumentation was no longer effective and like most people would she told him she didn't want to hear any more. This scenario,of course makes Jeremy as guilty as hell..
NO, nonono, "most people" would have tried to intervene with such knowledge! Period. You don´t just passively accept the murders of five people, that is SICK.
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NO, nonono, "most people" would have tried to intervene with such knowledge! Period. You don´t just passively accept the murders of five people, that is SICK.
I don't think she took Jeremy seriously given his character as "a relentless tease"; it's rather like the story of the Boy who cried Wolf we all grew up on.
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The 'Proof of the Pudding' lies in June's cycle being at Bourtree Cottage. The incident, I understand, occurred on the Sunday beforehand, and Muggy skedaddled on the train to London. I am truly surprised Steve is not cognisant of this.
Seeing the scintillating picture of Muggy in her 'finerie', I am minded to mention that June may well have said to her - ''You look like a Harlot'' !!
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I don't think she took Jeremy seriously given his character as "a relentless tease"; it's rather like the story of the Boy who cried Wolf we all grew up on.
So all the more reason why, what he was purported to have told Julie,should have been ignored,,and not accepted at trial.
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I don't think she took Jeremy seriously given his character as "a relentless tease"; it's rather like the story of the Boy who cried Wolf we all grew up on.
We have been throught this before, and you think it is natural that poor Julie was too tired to hear the alarm bells when Jeremy after talking about killing his family for a year says, It´s tonight or never.
It is so common that people talk about killing off their entire family.....
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Hi tyler no tears or emotion after identifying the twins just needed a fag when she got outside the morgue :'( I have said all along if Julie had prior knowledge that Jeremy was going to kill his entire family she should have been charged as an accessory to murder not had all criminal charges against her dropped and a payment of £25.000 for her story this behaviour is obscene and shows her true character. She was obvious an attention seeker the way she dressed and posed after the Trial and the photo's in the mags. I bet she has convinced her family and steve she was just a victim of circumstances. Inspite of everything she would have married Jeremy Bamber had he asked her she would have felt she had found her place in Society.
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So all the more reason why, what he was purported to have told Julie,should have been ignored,,and not accepted at trial.
Good point, the woman was too frail and tired to notice anything around her.
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The 'Proof of the Pudding' lies in June's cycle being at Bourtree Cottage. The incident, I understand, occurred on the Sunday beforehand, and Muggy skedaddled on the train to London. I am truly surprised Steve is not cognisant of this.
Seeing the scintillating picture of Muggy in her 'finerie', I am minded to mention that June may well have said to her - ''You look like a Harlot'' !!
You can address me directly campion and not through some third party intermediary. Are you suggesting that Julie realized what was in Jeremy's mind on Saturday 3rd August 1985 when she saw the bicycle at Bourtree Cottage but turned a blind eye,rejected the job Jeremy had lined up for her yet managed to get different employment by the following Tuesday?
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The 'Proof of the Pudding' lies in June's cycle being at Bourtree Cottage. The incident, I understand, occurred on the Sunday beforehand, and Muggy skedaddled on the train to London. I am truly surprised Steve is not cognisant of this.
Seeing the scintillating picture of Muggy in her 'finerie', I am minded to mention that June may well have said to her - ''You look like a Harlot'' !!
Campion, I feel confidently certain that Steve is perfectly cognisant of this fact but seeks at all turns to divert our attention away from the woman Julie presents herself as being to the girl he SEES her as being.
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No wonder she was miffed,Susan. Hopping mad would have been the description I'd have given.
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Campion, I feel confidently certain that Steve is perfectly cognisant of this fact but seeks at all turns to divert our attention away from the woman Julie presents herself as being to the girl he SEES her as being.
Welcome back April, hope you had a great holiday!! :)
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Welcome back April, hope you had a great holiday!! :)
Thank you Caroline. I had a wonderful time with very valued friends. For us all, when it was good, it was very, very good but when it was bad............ ;D Still, isn't laughter always the best medicine ;D ;D
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Welcome back April, hope you had a great holiday!! :)
Hola April, did the sun shine for you? You are probably one of the few on the forum who have some Vitamin D in their body. Hope you had a fab time ;) ;) :D
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steve forgive me if I have misread that Julie gave her sleeping pills to Jeremy so he could drug his parents then burn the house down with them in it. Bet she thought he was just kidding ;D but she gave them to him anyway.
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Maggie we have plenty of Vit D in our bodies in the North of Scotland ;D ;D ;D the cold East wind brings it in ;D
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Hola April, did the sun shine for you? You are probably one of the few on the forum who have some Vitamin D in their body. Hope you had a fab time ;) ;) :D
Hola back Maggie. My skin has changed colour but due as much to the wind as to the sun.
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I´m white as a sheet, need some sun..... 8)
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Maggie we have plenty of Vit D in our bodies in the North of Scotland ;D ;D ;D the cold East wind brings it in ;D
Susan, there may have been moments when we thought Scotland may have been a better option :D
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steve forgive me if I have misread that Julie gave her sleeping pills to Jeremy so he could drug his parents then burn the house down with them in it. Bet she thought he was just kidding ;D but she gave them to him anyway.
The most damning element in Julie´s tale, but I am sure Steve has an excuse for that also.
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steve forgive me if I have misread that Julie gave her sleeping pills to Jeremy so he could drug his parents then burn the house down with them in it. Bet she thought he was just kidding ;D but she gave them to him anyway.
It's quite possible that Julie breathed a sigh of relief on the occasion of Christmas 1984,but all this is speculation.As for the telephone call Liz Rimington made to Essex Police Julie could have denied all knowledge at that early stage. It's ridiculous to suggest Julie was somehow impelled to tell lie after lie during the next few months simply because her friends had forced her hand,when Jeremy would face trial anyway due to Robert Boutflour’s silencer evidence.
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It's quite possible that Julie breathed a sigh of relief on the occasion of Christmas 1984,but all this is speculation.As for the telephone call Liz Rimington made to Essex Police Julie could have denied all knowledge at that early stage. It's ridiculous to suggest Julie was somehow impelled to tell lie after lie during the next few months simply because her friends had forced her hand,when Jeremy would face trial anyway due to Robert Boutflour’s silencer evidence.
Julie did what she did for Julie. She would have been procecuted for her crimes had she not cooperated with the EP, it is clear that they made a deal with her. Check fraud, burglary, drug dealing and possibly accessory to murder and/or obstruction of justice. Some serious things right there.
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Hi steve do you yourself think the silencer would have convicted Jeremy Bamber on its own without Julie's evidence.
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It's quite possible that Julie breathed a sigh of relief on the occasion of Christmas 1984,but all this is speculation.As for the telephone call Liz Rimington made to Essex Police Julie could have denied all knowledge at that early stage. It's ridiculous to suggest Julie was somehow impelled to tell lie after lie during the next few months simply because her friends had forced her hand,when Jeremy would face trial anyway due to Robert Boutflour’s silencer evidence.
If she'd denied all knowledge after LM's call to the police it would have been tantamount to calling her a liar. I think it more likely that she manipulated her into making the call, exonerating herself of it in the process. RB's name will fade/has already faded from memory. Julie has made perfectly certain of her place in scurilous history, as the woman responsible for condemning Jeremy Bamber, by the money she accepted from and the pornographic pictures of her which she allowed to be flaunted by, the most vulgar weekly publication this country has ever known. What a claim to fame.
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Hola back Maggie. My skin has changed colour but due as much to the wind as to the sun.
Yes, my sister lives in Spain, near Alicante, she said the wind had been bad this year. Hope it's gone by June ;D ;D Could have been rust April, possibly worse than wind burn?? Glad you had a good time anyway ;D ;D
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Maggie don't like the idea of going to Spain to go rusty she may need a sander on her to make her white again. Told her she should have come North for a good Highland welcome when the wind blows here at least you get to see up their kilts I am wandering around the street all day when it is windy sometimes I see a sight for sore eyes ;D ;D ;D ;D it is true nothing worn underneath the kilt.
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Maggie don't like the idea of going to Spain to go rusty she may need a sander on her to make her white again. Told her she should have come North for a good Highland welcome when the wind blows here at least you get to see up their kilts I am wandering around the street all day when it is windy sometimes I see a sight for sore eyes ;D ;D ;D ;D it is true nothing worn underneath the kilt.
Susan, at a kilted wedding I asked if it was true. I was told it was, so I asked him for proof, which he proudly gave me ;D ;D ;D
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Julie did what she did for Julie. She would have been procecuted for her crimes had she not cooperated with the EP, it is clear that they made a deal with her. Check fraud, burglary, drug dealing and possibly accessory to murder and/or obstruction of justice. Some serious things right there.
But there was no proof of any of it had Julie herself not come forward.
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The most damning element in Julie´s tale, but I am sure Steve has an excuse for that also.
Steve will counter anything about mugford plus a 10 ft ring of steel for added measure.
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Hi steve do you yourself think the silencer would have convicted Jeremy Bamber on its own without Julie's evidence.
Well the judge said it could,and advised them to "treat Julie Mugford's evidence with a great deal of caution".
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Well the judge said it could,and advised them to "treat Julie Mugford's evidence with a great deal of caution".
and a cask of salt
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Steve will counter anything about mugford plus a 10 ft ring of steel for added measure.
Yes, he loves his Julie. I don´t understand why.
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Hi steve a bucket of salt I suspect as mertoll suggested ;D
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Hi april hope he was proud ;D as a man in a kilt should be ;)
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Hi april hope he was proud ;D as a man in a kilt should be ;)
Absolutely Susan. He had every reason to be so ;) It was a very fine kilt.
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april pleased to hear that yet you have never been back for more and he would be so erect ;D in the full Highland Dress ;D nothing like it IMO.
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I love kilts!
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Hi steve a bucket of salt I suspect as mertoll suggested ;D
make that a skip Susan
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Alias I love kilts a man needs a good pair of strong hairy legs for the kilt some of the Farmers in this area make my eyes water when I see them all on sale day. I go to all the cattle sales. ;D
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Alias I love kilts a man needs a good pair of strong hairy legs for the kilt some of the Farmers in this area make my eyes water when I see them all on sale day. I go to all the cattle sales. ;D
I most definitely would join you if I were in your neighbourhood. We could stroll along spotting hairy legs, hoping for a frisky breeze. ;D
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Alias you get a frisky breeze and it aint the legs you would be looking at ;D ;D ;D ;D you have heard the song let the wind blow high let the wind blow low Donald has no trousers ;D Yippee
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Do you have a kilt,Steve.?
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Alias you get a frisky breeze and it aint the legs you would be looking at ;D ;D ;D ;D you have heard the song let the wind blow high let the wind blow low Donald has no trousers ;D Yippee
Now I´ve heard it - it´s funny, and there are a few hineys us ladies can enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDJflQfNUE8
We are disrupting this thread....
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lookout are you planning another test run along the sea wall to ascertain the time from WHF to Goldhanger if he is in the kilt don't put him on the bike ;D let him run infront of you ;D ;D ;D
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Alias don't worry april started it and she is a Global Mod so we are quite safe ;D will go to you tube for some pleasure ;D
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lookout are you planning another test run along the sea wall to ascertain the time from WHF to Goldhanger if he is in the kilt don't put him on the bike ;D let him run infront of you ;D ;D ;D
That's the idea,Susan. ;D ;D ;D
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Aww,bless him,,he knows I'm only pulling his leg,,and not making fun of him.
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lookout he knows we are too fond of him to make fun of him all our comments are with affection.
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Aww,bless him,,he knows I'm only pulling his leg,,and not making fun of him.
Lookout, I'm SO glad you clarified that point for us :) but as Alias has kindly hinted, this thread, which I feel sure is of greater interest to Steve than is our bantering, is being disrupted.
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Do you have a kilt,Steve.?
I'll leave that to your imagination.
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Lookout, I'm SO glad you clarified that point for us :) but as Alias has kindly hinted, this thread, which I feel sure is of greater interest to Steve than is our bantering, is being disrupted.
Indeed it is,April.My humble apology.
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The father of Crown princess Mary of Denmark is originally from Scotland (well, her whole family, but they live in Tasmania) and he wore a kilt at her wedding. So he sat there in the church with his legs well apart, and you almost got a glimpse of the crown jewels. 8)
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The father of Crown princess Mary of Denmark is originally from Scotland (well, her whole family, but they live in Tasmania) and he wore a kilt at her wedding. So he sat there in the church with his legs well apart, and you almost got a glimpse of the crown jewels. 8)
Is this relevant to the real reason Julie Mugford took a month to come forward with her story?
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Well the judge said it could,and advised them to "treat Julie Mugford's evidence with a great deal of caution".
Was that before or after his daily visit to madam whiplash? ::)
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Is this relevant to the real reason Julie Mugford took a month to come forward with her story?
Obviously not. wow
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Is this relevant to the real reason Julie Mugford took a month to come forward with her story?
OK Steve, why do you think it took her so long?
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Excuse me, Steve...uk, may I confront you directly, and from your compendious knowledge, elicit what the demanding, stressful and tiring vacation work was, that Muggy was pursuing in London, rather than being in Goldhanger Fruit Farms' office?
The only thing I am conversant with, is the cheque fraud shopping spree along Oxford Street. BTW WERE YOU IN ON THAT?
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It all happened at a get-together with the family at a restaurant in Colchester,,where Brett Collins burst out with a speech,including a toast to the " engaged couple ",meaning Julie and Jeremy.
Jeremy wasn't amused and didn't respond. Instead he said he had no plans to get engaged.
Oh dear,,what an embarrassing moment for all concerned. The rot had set in before this particular day,with a lot of arguments taking place. Julie was very hurt at this abrupt ending,so I reckon that's when the cogs started working and 32 statements later-----------------------------------------------------
Except that Julie told her friend Susan that Jeremy hadn't committed the murders,,answering Susans' question whether he did or not,,and up came the " payment to a hitman " scenario.
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When you think about it, it is striking that the judge instructed the jury to listen Julie´s testimony with caution. That is not common, I think. He must have had some knowledge of her checkered past and the deal with EP.
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That's what I found strange,Alias.
Another strange thing is the unidentified officer who picked Julie up and took her to the Blackwall tunnel where they met up with Jeremy and the relatives.
COLP were unable to identify the officer of the Metropolitan police,who picked her up from her home,,but thoughts were on it being Rob Carr.
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That's what I found strange,Alias.
Another strange thing is the unidentified officer who picked Julie up and took her to the Blackwall tunnel where they met up with Jeremy and the relatives.
COLP were unable to identify the officer of the Metropolitan police,who picked her up from her home,,but thoughts were on it being Rob Carr.
Why did they meet up there?
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Julie was " handed over " from there,then taken to Colchester to meet up with the rest of the family.
I really don't know why.
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I'll leave that to your imagination.
:o
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Julie was " handed over " from there,then taken to Colchester to meet up with the rest of the family.
I really don't know why.
Jeremy had requested Julie's presence in telephone call three. I'm surprised #142 and #147 haven't yet been removed which they would have been had I been monitoring this site.