Jeremy Bamber Forum

JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on March 15, 2022, 01:59:AM

Title: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Adam on March 15, 2022, 01:59:AM
Rob rudely posted yesterday -

'I totally agree Snow, when the toxicology reports showed Sheila was not sedated I became very interested in the case when watching the WHF series.

Am glad you can see through Adams BS'

---------

Can you post Sheila's toxicology report on here. Posters will find it interesting.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: lookout on March 15, 2022, 11:09:AM
Food still in stomach, which remains for about 2 hours before entering the bowel.

Traces of Haloperidol.

Traces of Cannabis.

Sheila's weekend of cannabis smoking would have counteracted with what remained of the Haloperidol weakening the effect of the anti-psychotic. Her quota of the drug had been due again within the week, so in effect, 3 weeks had already passed of a drug which had been " watered down " with cannabis leaving little effect of its effectiveness.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: mike tesko on March 17, 2022, 10:24:AM
The shooting incident which unfolded at Whitehouse farm, was 'sparked off' by 'a combination of factors' which had got 'nothing to do with any possible involvement' of 'Jeremy Bamber'..

One of the contributing factors, involved 'the unstable mind set' of 'more than one of the five victims' - 'Sheila', 'June' and 'Neville'! Another factor was the 'medical functionability' of 'Sheila' and 'June Bamber'..

Also, the fact that on her journey to whf, 'Colin Caffell' may have 'lit the touch paper' by rejecting the possibility of 'he' and 'she', and 'their two children' would 'never be reunited' together as 'a proper family unit'...

There is also, the factor concerning 'the contents' of that 'letter' which 'Colin' had 'written himself, and to which' he had handed it over' to 'Neville' upon arrival at the farmhouse.

'four of the deaths', and the 'suicide' involved 'the interaction of three of the adult victims', and 'police'..


                                          ***

THE POLICE SHOT AND KILLED 'SHEILA CAFFELL'!
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Rob_ on March 18, 2022, 09:33:PM
Rob rudely posted yesterday -

'I totally agree Snow, when the toxicology reports showed Sheila was not sedated I became very interested in the case when watching the WHF series.

Am glad you can see through Adams BS'

---------

Can you post Sheila's toxicology report on here. Posters will find it interesting.

Am surprised you cannot find it Adam  ;)

Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Steve_uk on March 19, 2022, 09:45:AM
The shooting incident which unfolded at Whitehouse farm, was 'sparked off' by 'a combination of factors' which had got 'nothing to do with any possible involvement' of 'Jeremy Bamber'..

One of the contributing factors, involved 'the unstable mind set' of 'more than one of the five victims' - 'Sheila', 'June' and 'Neville'! Another factor was the 'medical functionability' of 'Sheila' and 'June Bamber'..

Also, the fact that on her journey to whf, 'Colin Caffell' may have 'lit the touch paper' by rejecting the possibility of 'he' and 'she', and 'their two children' would 'never be reunited' together as 'a proper family unit'...

There is also, the factor concerning 'the contents' of that 'letter' which 'Colin' had 'written himself, and to which' he had handed it over' to 'Neville' upon arrival at the farmhouse.

'four of the deaths', and the 'suicide' involved 'the interaction of three of the adult victims', and 'police'..


                                          ***

THE POLICE SHOT AND KILLED 'SHEILA CAFFELL'!
I don't think Nevill ever received the letter.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Jane on March 19, 2022, 10:34:AM
I don't think Nevill ever received the letter.


He didn't, Steve. For whatever reason, Colin didn't give it to him.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2022, 10:39:AM
Am surprised you cannot find it Adam  ;)

Thank you. Better late than never.

Where does it say 'Sheila was not sedated'?
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2022, 10:45:AM
How many days had Sheila been at WHF prior to the massacre?

Be interesting to know if Bamber went for supper every night while Sheila was at WHF. Haloperidal will effect her at different times in different ways.

Sheila won't be docile 100% of the time.

He was certainly excited after the final supper before the massacre. Ringing Julie as soon as he got home. This coincides with Pamela Boutflour's WS regarding Sheila's docile tone in her telephone call with her.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2022, 10:54:AM
Bamber breaking a 3 day silence between him & Julie by ringing her, does coincide with what Julie said he said to her -

'I have been on my tractor all day thinking about it'.

'Tonights the night'.

'It's now or never'.

'You may hear from me later' (she did!).

----------

He had just returned from WHF & seen that Sheila was as ready as she will ever be. As supported by PB's WS.

He was hyped & had to ring Julie.

He only had a short window of opportunity before Sheila went home. 
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2022, 10:58:AM
'I have been on my tractor all day thinking about it'.

'Tonights the night'.

'It's now or never'.

'You may hear from me later' (she did!).

----------

Bamber has always refused to discuss this conversation.

He did admit he had been on his tractor that day at work.

It is also true there was a massacre around 3 hours later - 'tonights the night', 'it's now or never'.

Julie also did hear from him later.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Jane on March 19, 2022, 11:57:AM
Am surprised you cannot find it Adam  ;)


Thank-you for that, Rob. Seeing it there in black and white causes me to wonder why posters insist on claiming that she had over the top levels of this, that, or the other drug in her system when THE TOX REPORT says otherwise, and the report on cannabis states a "slight positive".

Further to what I posted previously regarding "Haloperidol Blood Levels and Clinical Effects", the Abstract tells us the "results imply that low to moderate doses -(that's LOW to MODERATE)- of neuroleptics are appropriate for many acutely psychotic patients".
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Rob_ on March 19, 2022, 12:50:PM
Thank you. Better late than never.

Where does it say 'Sheila was not sedated'?

Where does it say she was Adam?
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2022, 12:56:PM
Where does it say she was Adam?

I never said it did.

You posted - 'when the toxicology reports showed Sheila was not sedated'.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Rob_ on March 19, 2022, 01:01:PM
I never said it did.

You posted - 'when the toxicology reports showed Sheila was not sedated'.

It's you Adam who has posted many times Sheila was sedated, despite there being nothing in the toxicology reports to say she was.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2022, 01:09:PM
It's you Adam who has posted many times Sheila was sedated, despite there being nothing in the toxicology reports to say she was.

Well I have said she was Haloperiodal. Sedative effects being just one of many side effects.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: lookout on March 19, 2022, 01:17:PM
Well I have said she was Haloperiodal. Sedative effects being just one of many side effects.





What little there was left would have been overshadowed by the cannabis so she might as well have had none in her system. Cannabis itself can bring about a psychotic attack, because for Sheila to have traces of it still in her system 3 ? days later she must have smoked it continually at her parties as usually after 72 hours there's no trace of it.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Rob_ on March 19, 2022, 01:20:PM
Well I have said she was Haloperiodal. Sedative effects being just one of many side effects.

Yes we all know she was on Haloperiodol, her dose had recently been halved and she was due another dose. So you cannot say she was sedated because this is a side effect of Haloperiodol.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: lookout on March 19, 2022, 01:29:PM
A reduction in any meds. brings about problems and in many cases the condition that's being treated returns with a vengeance. It stands to reason. Withdrawal symptoms has its own problems too, be it medication, tobacco or alcohol.

Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2022, 01:29:PM
Yes we all know she was on Haloperiodol, her dose had recently been halved and she was due another dose. So you cannot say she was sedated because this is a side effect of Haloperiodol.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11172.0.html

It's been confirmed today that Sheila's condition a few hours beforehand would not deter Bamber from attempting the massacre.

The plan was made weeks or months ago.  He only had a 4 night window. The reward was huge. 

The crime scene evidence & Bamber's/PB's WS's confirm Sheila was very docile from the Haloperiodal. Which was a bonus for him.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: lookout on March 19, 2022, 01:32:PM
Docile ? Famed for ranting and raving, throwing pots and pans about and shoving her hand through plate glass  ::)
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2022, 01:36:PM
Docile ? Famed for ranting and raving, throwing pots and pans about and shoving her hand through plate glass  ::)

Do elaborate & provide sources.

Pots & pans to a 5X massacre. Sheila would be very docile & uncordinated from the Haloperidal.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: lookout on March 19, 2022, 02:43:PM
Do elaborate & provide sources.

Pots & pans to a 5X massacre. Sheila would be very docile & uncordinated from the Haloperidal.




Haven't you read Colin's book ? Or read anything other than Wilkes ?
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: lookout on March 19, 2022, 02:45:PM
Sheila was like a coiled spring while she was at WHF.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: lookout on March 19, 2022, 02:49:PM
Let's just call it 2 adults as opposed to 5 people, one sick adult and the other tired/ worn out after a full day in the fields. An easy target for a young fit person in a psychotic state, delusional and hallucinating.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Steve_uk on March 19, 2022, 02:50:PM
Docile ? Famed for ranting and raving, throwing pots and pans about and shoving her hand through plate glass  ::)
But this was during the marriage to Colin, when she was taking no anti-psychotic medication. As for the incident witnessed by her drug dealer Freddie Emani, she was banging her fists against the wall, never against a person and never against her children.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Steve_uk on March 19, 2022, 02:53:PM
Let's just call it 2 adults as opposed to 5 people, one sick adult and the other tired/ worn out after a full day in the fields. An easy target for a young fit person in a psychotic state, delusional and hallucinating.
Even if she was young and fit (negated by several witnesses those last days) the psychosis involves confusion, certainly not a fit state to pinpoint 25 bullets reloading twice uninterrupted.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Jane on March 19, 2022, 03:01:PM
It's you Adam who has posted many times Sheila was sedated, despite there being nothing in the toxicology reports to say she was.


She was found to have had an adequate and theraputic level of Haloperidol, a drug known to have sedative effects, in her system, after death, which, had she lived, would have been efficacious until her next dose.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: lookout on March 19, 2022, 03:09:PM
Sheila was only days away from her next injection so in effect what she had left would be of no use in containing/ controlling her illness as in fact because the dose had been lowered anyway the less it was the more dangerous in the sense that it was a large drop from what she had been originally signed up for.

Those who are given medication for heart problems who see a drop in their dosage more often than not suffer a heart attack, so why would anyone reduce the dosage of a vital medication ?
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Jane on March 19, 2022, 03:34:PM
Sheila was only days away from her next injection so in effect what she had left would be of no use in containing/ controlling her illness as in fact because the dose had been lowered anyway the less it was the more dangerous in the sense that it was a large drop from what she had been originally signed up for.

Those who are given medication for heart problems who see a drop in their dosage more often than not suffer a heart attack, so why would anyone reduce the dosage of a vital medication ?


At death she was found to have in her system, an adequate and theraputic amount of Haloperidol, low to moderate doses of which have been found to be adequate for most severely psychotic patients, which would have been efficacious until her next dose, which I believe to have been due sometime the following week.

Regarding heart meds, my adored M. often had his changed according to what his doctors felt was necessary. The balance is all important. A theraputic dose, not more than, is all that's necessary.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: lookout on March 19, 2022, 04:30:PM
Even if she was young and fit (negated by several witnesses those last days) the psychosis involves confusion, certainly not a fit state to pinpoint 25 bullets reloading twice uninterrupted.





Steve, the shots were frenzied or there'd have been no point in using the amount of bullets if one had been in the know.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: lookout on March 19, 2022, 04:36:PM

At death she was found to have in her system, an adequate and theraputic amount of Haloperidol, low to moderate doses of which have been found to be adequate for most severely psychotic patients, which would have been efficacious until her next dose, which I believe to have been due sometime the following week.

Regarding heart meds, my adored M. often had his changed according to what his doctors felt was necessary. The balance is all important. A theraputic dose, not more than, is all that's necessary.





Sheila's final dose wasn't therapeutic Jane, it was dangerously low.
I certainly agree about balance and regularity too.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Jane on March 19, 2022, 05:02:PM




Sheila's final dose wasn't therapeutic Jane, it was dangerously low.
I certainly agree about balance and regularity too.


No, Lookout, I'm sorry, but I don't believe it was. I'm going by the paper I've already quoted. They don't just carry out tests from observation, alone, they have to take bloods from hundreds of patients, as well as a control group, and tests will be carried out over long periods before outcomes are arrived at. Their finding is that "LOW to MODERATE doses provide adequate and theraputic cover for most severely psychotic patients". Sheila wasn't severely psychotic and she had enough Haloperidol in her system to have kept her, had she lived, adequately medicated until her next dose. Of course, it can always be argued that Sheila MAY have been the one, in however many hundreds of thousands, to whom it doesn't apply, but there seems to be nothing in her history to suggest such.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: guest29835 on March 19, 2022, 05:07:PM

At death she was found to have in her system, an adequate and theraputic amount of Haloperidol, low to moderate doses of which have been found to be adequate for most severely psychotic patients, which would have been efficacious until her next dose, which I believe to have been due sometime the following week.

Regarding heart meds, my adored M. often had his changed according to what his doctors felt was necessary. The balance is all important. A theraputic dose, not more than, is all that's necessary.

You are taking the apparent findings of a paper you quoted (and that you have not read) out of context in order to make a different argument. 

Sheila's dosage had been negligently reduced, the concentration of Haloperidol in her body was small by her death, and she was only days from her next dosage.  She was taking cannabis, and probably drinking and taking cocaine.

In my view, the pharmacology/toxicology aspects of this case have not been considered in sufficient depth.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Steve_uk on March 19, 2022, 05:10:PM
You are taking the apparent findings of a paper you quoted (and that you have not read) out of context in order to make a different argument. 

Sheila's dosage had been negligently reduced, the concentration of Haloperidol in her body was small by her death, and she was only days from her next dosage.  She was taking cannabis, and probably drinking and taking cocaine.

In my view, the pharmacology/toxicology aspects of this case have not been considered in sufficient depth.
There's still no evidence that she was a mortal risk to others.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: guest29835 on March 19, 2022, 05:15:PM
There's still no evidence that she was a mortal risk to others.

I agree, but that doesn't matter.  A would-be killer is of no mortal risk to others until he embarks on his killing.

I could add that there's no evidence that Jeremy Bamber was violent in the least, whereas Julie Mugford was violent towards Jeremy Bamber, and Sheila Caffell was violent towards Colin Caffell, and allegedly towards the twins.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: snow66! on March 19, 2022, 05:26:PM
I agree, but that doesn't matter.  A would-be killer is of no mortal risk to others until he embarks on his killing.

I could add that there's no evidence that Jeremy Bamber was violent in the least, whereas Julie Mugford was violent towards Jeremy Bamber, and Sheila Caffell was violent towards Colin Caffell, and allegedly towards the twins.
Good point Gascoigne,if there was any evidence of fist fights or such,no doubt this would have been brought up and argued he had a violent nature.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Steve_uk on March 19, 2022, 05:30:PM
I agree, but that doesn't matter.  A would-be killer is of no mortal risk to others until he embarks on his killing.

I could add that there's no evidence that Jeremy Bamber was violent in the least, whereas Julie Mugford was violent towards Jeremy Bamber, and Sheila Caffell was violent towards Colin Caffell, and allegedly towards the twins.
There's no evidence that the twins were ever a recipient of violence. This is again scurrilous rumour, which I'm surprised (or am I?) you seem to have swallowed hook, line and sinker. Julie threw a bar of Shield soap into a shopping cart in a Maldon supermarket and it hit Jeremy on the nose, so maybe she should be escorted to Styal prison forthwith. Jeremy pinned Julie's arm behind her back at Moreshead Mansions, when he realized the truth was finally about to emerge.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2022, 05:30:PM
I agree, but that doesn't matter.  A would-be killer is of no mortal risk to others until he embarks on his killing.

I could add that there's no evidence that Jeremy Bamber was violent in the least, whereas Julie Mugford was violent towards Jeremy Bamber, and Sheila Caffell was violent towards Colin Caffell, and allegedly towards the twins.

Julie was in London on the massacre night.

What did Sheila do to CC?
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Steve_uk on March 19, 2022, 05:31:PM
Julie was in London on the massacre night.

What did Sheila do to CC?
She destroyed some of his artwork and threw a pan at him.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Jane on March 19, 2022, 07:11:PM
Am surprised you cannot find it Adam  ;)


Thanks for this, Rob. Having read it and reread it, it supports everything I've said
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: David1819 on March 19, 2022, 08:15:PM
Sheila had 15 ng/mL of haloperidol in her blood at the time of her death.

(https://s8.postimg.cc/48pic1zed/hal2.png)

According to a 1992 study "Haloperidol Blood Levels and Clinical Effects" They consider Haloperidol blood levels as follows -

low (2 to 13 ng/mL), medium (13.1 to 24 ng/mL), or high (24.1 to 35 ng/mL).

According to a 1980s study, heavy sedation is associated with levels in excess of 50ng/mL

(https://s8.postimg.cc/5nr30sfx1/hal3.png)
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: lookout on March 19, 2022, 08:19:PM
Thanks for that David.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2022, 08:23:PM
Sheila had 15 ng/mL of haloperidol in her blood at the time of her death.

(https://s8.postimg.cc/48pic1zed/hal2.png)

According to a 1992 study "Haloperidol Blood Levels and Clinical Effects" They consider Haloperidol blood levels as follows -

low (2 to 13 ng/mL), medium (13.1 to 24 ng/mL), or high (24.1 to 35 ng/mL).

According to a 1980s study, heavy sedation is associated with levels in excess of 50ng/mL

(https://s8.postimg.cc/5nr30sfx1/hal3.png)

Another source saying Haloperidal causes sedation.

Sheila was able to visit Bamber on the farm. Then say 'Yes/No' to PB for 3 minutes. So was probably on mild to medium sedation.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: snow66! on March 19, 2022, 08:29:PM
Another source saying Haloperidal causes sedation.

Sheila was able to visit Bamber on the farm. Then say 'Yes/No' to PB for 3 minutes. So was probably on mild to medium sedation.
Enough to give up her life without any struggle Adam?
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: lookout on March 19, 2022, 08:30:PM
Sedation only when fully medicated----Sheila wasn't.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Steve_uk on March 19, 2022, 08:31:PM
Enough to give up her life without any struggle Adam?
Did you note how she appeared to various locals that final day snow?
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Adam on March 19, 2022, 08:32:PM
Enough to give up her life without any struggle Adam?

The evidence shows Sheila put up no/minimal resistance.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: David1819 on March 19, 2022, 08:32:PM
Enough to give up her life without any struggle Adam?

The source also mentions "aggressive episodes".  :))
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: snow66! on March 19, 2022, 10:41:PM
Did you note how she appeared to various locals that final day snow?
No i dont suppose i did Steve,is this in CALS book.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: guest29835 on March 19, 2022, 11:47:PM
There's no evidence that the twins were ever a recipient of violence. This is again scurrilous rumour, which I'm surprised (or am I?) you seem to have swallowed hook, line and sinker. Julie threw a bar of Shield soap into a shopping cart in a Maldon supermarket and it hit Jeremy on the nose, so maybe she should be escorted to Styal prison forthwith. Jeremy pinned Julie's arm behind her back at Moreshead Mansions, when he realized the truth was finally about to emerge.

It is more than just a scurrilous rumour, but it is less than proved. 

I explicitly stated that it was alleged.  I did not state it as fact.  I have 'swallowed' nothing.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: guest29835 on March 19, 2022, 11:47:PM
Sheila had 15 ng/mL of haloperidol in her blood at the time of her death.

(https://s8.postimg.cc/48pic1zed/hal2.png)

According to a 1992 study "Haloperidol Blood Levels and Clinical Effects" They consider Haloperidol blood levels as follows -

low (2 to 13 ng/mL), medium (13.1 to 24 ng/mL), or high (24.1 to 35 ng/mL).

According to a 1980s study, heavy sedation is associated with levels in excess of 50ng/mL

(https://s8.postimg.cc/5nr30sfx1/hal3.png)

You're quoting the same study that Jane quoted.  I've commented on it in the other thread.
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: guest29835 on March 19, 2022, 11:48:PM

Thanks for this, Rob. Having read it and reread it, it supports everything I've said

What is it specifically that you have said that you think it supports?
Title: Re: Sheila's toxicology report:
Post by: Steve_uk on March 23, 2022, 09:32:PM
It is more than just a scurrilous rumour, but it is less than proved. 

I explicitly stated that it was alleged.  I did not state it as fact.  I have 'swallowed' nothing.
It's a scurrilous rumour that the twins were abused by anyone's hand.