Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on December 21, 2021, 06:05:AM
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We have to go by the COA evidence that Sheila was sedated & on Haloperidol.
Bamber had checked on Sheila a few hours earlier. He knew she was ready.
So really all of the above was possible.
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All of the above is possible. Bamber could deal each situation. He had to! There was no going back.
To me, doubtful Sheila woke & was out of bed. However if she was Bamber had to deal with the situation.
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The 'Sheila was tied up' was a suggestion from another poster. I have included it as an option.
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We have to go by the COA evidence that Sheila was sedated & on Haloperidol.
Bamber had checked on Sheila a few hours earlier. He knew she was ready.
So really all of the above was possible.
There is no evidence she was sedated.
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There is no evidence she was sedated.
It's in the COA.
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The main obstacle supporters place, is Sheila may have fought back.
Very doubtful this happened. But if she did, Bamber had to & would be able to deal with it. He was a lot stronger than Sheila.
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At the end of the day, Bamber had to move Sheila around 20 yards.
He knew this beforehand & would have had a plan for whatever situation he found himself in.
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At the end of the day, Bamber had to move Sheila around 20 yards.
He knew this beforehand & would have had a plan.
Unless Sheila was already up & awake.
That just makes it easier for Bamber.
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Bamber suggested himself Sheila was under sedation.
Saying Sheila was non responsive at dinner. Despite conversations about fostering.
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The slim chance Sheila put up a token resistance was not going to stop Bamber.
He had just shot 4 other people & had a violent fight with a 6.4, 15 stone man.
Sheila was not going to stop a hyped up Bamber from firing the rifle into Sheila in his chosen location.
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Sheila's medication had recently been reduced just before the tragedy to half of it's normal dose Adam as you very well know, and I believe she had forgotten to take her last lot of medication.
I keep saying Sheila was also paranoid look it up please! She would have fought back as hard as she could!
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It's in the COA.
No, it's not. We've been over this before, many times.
In their 2002 judgment, the Court of Appeal say that Sheila was "probably in a sedated state" and the drug she was on was known to have "sedative side effects at the levels prescribed". But the judges had no expert opinion to rely on for these views. Dr. Ferguson, in his statement of 9th. August 1985, states only that the drug would have had a slightly sedating effect, but he doesn't know what the effect was on Sheila because he had not seen her since her dose was lowered.
You have no evidence to say that Sheila was sedated, assuming you even understand what the term 'sedated' means and its significance. Sedated does not mean asleep. There are witnesses to Sheila's general physical state on the 7th. August 1985, but these witnesses give us conflicting accounts.
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My word, you're on a roll Adam. How much is the promised payment ??
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Sheila's medication had recently been reduced just before the tragedy to half of it's normal dose Adam as you very well know, and I believe she had forgotten to take her last lot of medication.
I keep saying Sheila was also paranoid look it up please! She would have fought back as hard as she could!
Sheila's medication was delivered by injection at her doctor's surgery.
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Sheila's medication was delivered by injection at her doctor's surgery.
Not sure where i either read or perhaps it was on YouTube but I thought she had missed her last dose of medication? sorry if this is incorrect.
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Not sure where i either read or perhaps it was on YouTube but I thought she had missed her last dose of medication? sorry if this is incorrect.
Oh dear! Those YouTubes!!! The latest suggests -nay! CLAIMS!!- that JB phoned a local radio station and asked them to phone the police!!! Sheila was due her next injection a few days after her return to London.
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Not sure where i either read or perhaps it was on YouTube but I thought she had missed her last dose of medication? sorry if this is incorrect.
That is not good enough Rob. As you very well know.
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Sheila's medication had recently been reduced just before the tragedy to half of it's normal dose Adam as you very well know, and I believe she had forgotten to take her last lot of medication.
I keep saying Sheila was also paranoid look it up please! She would have fought back as hard as she could!
Why?
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Sheila's medication had recently been reduced just before the tragedy to half of it's normal dose Adam as you very well know, and I believe she had forgotten to take her last lot of medication.
I keep saying Sheila was also paranoid look it up please! She would have fought back as hard as she could!
I did know. And?
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My word, you're on a roll Adam. How much is the promised payment ??
Thank you.
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No, it's not. We've been over this before, many times.
In their 2002 judgment, the Court of Appeal say that Sheila was "probably in a sedated state" and the drug she was on was known to have "sedative side effects at the levels prescribed". But the judges had no expert opinion to rely on for these views. Dr. Ferguson, in his statement of 9th. August 1985, states only that the drug would have had a slightly sedating effect, but he doesn't know what the effect was on Sheila because he had not seen her since her dose was lowered.
You have no evidence to say that Sheila was sedated, assuming you even understand what the term 'sedated' means and its significance. Sedated does not mean asleep. There are witnesses to Sheila's general physical state on the 7th. August 1985, but these witnesses give us conflicting accounts.
Yes we have been over it before.
Sheila was on Haloperidol. Bamber also said she was unresponsive. Together with Sheila being unresponsive in the evening phone call.
But appreciate supporters want to have the option that Sheila put up some resistance. Not that she could stop a determined Bamber.
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The poll is open. Everyone will have an opinion of what Bamber had to do with Sheila, once the other 4 had been killed.
Supporters often say Sheila would be awake & would have fought back. I have doubts as the only noise was downstairs in the kitchen.
Feel free to give new suggestions & I can add.
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The poll is open. Everyone will have an opinion of what Bamber had to do with Sheila, once the other 4 had been killed.
Supporters often say Sheila would be awake & would have fought back. I have doubts as the only noise was downstairs in the kitchen.
Feel free to give new suggestions & I can add.
An already awake Sheila may not have fought back. Too scared & in shock.
Bamber was ready for any situation. He knew the rewards.
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She shot herself as the raid team was entering the house. Bamber was outside.
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She shot herself as the raid team was entering the house. Bamber was outside.
The Gish Gallop is the fallacious debate tactic of drowning your opponent in a flood of individually-weak arguments in order to prevent rebuttal of the whole argument collection without great effort. The Gish Gallop is a belt-fed version of the on the spot fallacy, as it's unreasonable for anyone to have a well-composed answer immediately available to every argument present in the Gallop. The Gish Gallop is named after creationist Duane Gish, who often abused it.
Gish Gallops are almost always performed with numerous other logical fallacies baked in. The myriad of component arguments constituting the Gallop may typically intersperse a few perfectly uncontroversial claims — the basic validity of which are intended to lend undue credence to the Gallop at large — with a devious hodgepodge of half-truths, outright lies, red herrings and straw men — which, if not rebutted as the fallacies they are, pile up into egregious problems for the refuter."
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Not sure where i either read or perhaps it was on YouTube but I thought she had missed her last dose of medication? sorry if this is incorrect.
Under half her usual dose, Rob, which would have been wearing off as she was nigh on due another injection.
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Under half her usual dose, Rob, which would have been wearing off as she was nigh on due another injection.
What do you believe Sheila was doing when it was her turn to be shot?
Still sleeping.
Awake & out of bed.
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What do you believe Sheila was doing when it was her turn to be shot?
Still sleeping.
Awake & out of bed.
You've lost the plot !
I have a different view and mindset to you.
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You've lost the plot !
I have a different view and mindset to you.
Bamber has been in prison for 36 years.
You have to accept there is a strong possibility Bamber shot Sheila. Almost certainly last.
Do you believe Sheila would have fought back?
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Bamber has been in prison for 36 years.
You have to accept there is a strong possibility Bamber shot Sheila. Almost certainly last.
Do you believe Sheila would have fought back?
I don't believe JB shot anyone so I don't support your arguments.
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I don't believe JB shot anyone so I don't support your arguments.
You need to look at both sides & have an opinion.
I have looked at & dissected Rob's & QC's Sheila scenarios. They didn't like it, but it's what a discussion forum is about.
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Supporters are always dissecting the Bamber scenario.
Thought they would have an opinion on Sheila's location/awakeness when it was her turn to be shot.
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That is not good enough Rob. As you very well know.
I agree Adam, I have just posted a picture of Sheila's bedroom that you could not find yourself in another topic!
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Under half her usual dose, Rob, which would have been wearing off as she was nigh on due another injection.
It might have been mentioned a podcast Lookout, but I believe Sheila had missed her last dose of medication? Or it might not have been missed but the dates when she was due to have them had changed?
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I agree Adam, I have just posted a picture of Sheila's bedroom that you could not find yourself in another topic!
Thank you. Did you just vote or was it Steve?
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Supporters are always dissecting the Bamber scenario.
Thought they would have an opinion on Sheila's location/awakeness when it was her turn to be shot.
No Adam it you who nit pick's and dissects and finds minor flaws in scenario's, if you come up with a plausible JB scenario I would say so. Unlike you I am open minded.
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No Adam it you who nit pick's and dissects and finds minor flaws in scenario's, if you come up with a plausible JB scenario I would say so. Unlike you I am open minded.
I wouldn't call them minor. Just one negates your Sheila scenario. Although I had 34.
Your critcism of my Bamber scenario is it was dark outside. Currently not with the CCRC.
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I wouldn't call them minor. Just one negates your Sheila scenario. Although I had 34.
Your critcism of my Bamber scenario is it was dark outside. Currently not with the CCRC.
No my criticism of your JB scenario is it's a total non starter, have you tried cycling at night with no lights?
If the crime happened in the daytime you might be onto something!
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No my criticism of your JB scenario is it's a total non starter, have you tried cycling at night with no lights?
If the crime happened in the daytime you might be onto something!
I have actually. Not hard on roads or cycle paths if you know the area.
How can Bamber massacre his family in daylight? They will all be out of bed and/or outside WHF.
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A straight forward Bamber scenario has been created by me. Matching the agreed crime scene evidence.
Not sure what else can be done.
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I have actually. Not hard on roads or cycle paths if you know the area.
How can Bamber massacre his family in daylight? They will all be out of bed and/or outside WHF.
You must have good eyes Adam because I find walking in total darkness hard, actually vey hard.
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A straight forward Bamber scenario has been created by me. Matching the agreed crime scene evidence.
Not sure what else can be done.
Sorry I disagree, with your scenario the bullet cases in the main bedroom are in the wrong place. How was the shots to Sheila achieved, why put the silencer in the cupboard, JB would have walked not cycled etc. etc. He would not have told the whole world what he was planning. Even CC disagreed she came up with a totally different scenario!!
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You must have good eyes Adam because I find walking in total darkness hard, actually vey hard.
Maybe Bamber put a light on the bike.
Stranger things have happened.
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Sorry I disagree, with your scenario the bullet cases in the main bedroom are in the wrong place. How was the shots to Sheila achieved, why put the silencer in the cupboard, JB would have walked not cycled etc. etc. He would not have told the whole world what he was planning. Even CC disagreed she came up with a totally different scenario!!
Bullets in the wrong location?
Achieving the shots to Sheila is what this thread is about.
Why would he walk when he could cycle?
Told the whole world? He gave Julie a partial version.
He put the silencer back where he got it from. It does happen.
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Bullets in the wrong location?
Achieving the shots to Sheila is what this thread is about.
Why would he walk when he could cycle?
Told the whole world? He gave Julie a partial version.
He put the silencer back where he got it from. It does happen.
Achieving the shots to Sheila is a major stumbling block to me anyway, that you as a guilter need to answer.
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You need to look at both sides & have an opinion.
I have looked at & dissected Rob's & QC's Sheila scenarios. They didn't like it, but it's what a discussion forum is about.
I'm still sulking about it now, Adam. It's bad enough you didn't recommend me for the CT. I went into a long sulk about that too. Just as well you offer moral support via the PM system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SLb6BdCHlE
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You need to look at both sides & have an opinion.
I have looked at & dissected Rob's & QC's Sheila scenarios. They didn't like it, but it's what a discussion forum is about.
I don't mind you dissecting mine or anyone's scenario Adam, that's fine but it's when you nit pick and all the while you have JB cycling in total darkness in your own scenario!
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Achieving the shots to Sheila is a major stumbling block to me anyway, that you as a guilter need to answer.
Well I have been answering it in this thread.
Bamber use minimal persuasion, force or both to put Sheila into his chosen position. Then place the rifle & pull the trigger.
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I don't mind you dissecting mine or anyone's scenario Adam, that's fine but it's when you nit pick and all the while you have JB cycling in total darkness in your own scenario!
He's always picked everyone's posts to pieces except those who agree with him. He's only ever skimmed over innocent posts, as not the least bit interested in them, which is why I take no notice of his posts.
Same old same old, filling forums with spaced out lines to make it look a lot and has the brass-neck to blame others for flooding the forum. He gets on my wick !
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I don't mind you dissecting mine or anyone's scenario Adam, that's fine but it's when you nit pick and all the while you have JB cycling in total darkness in your own scenario!
That was put to the police, DPP & jury.
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He's always picked everyone's posts to pieces except those who agree with him. He's only ever skimmed over innocent posts, as not the least bit interested in them, which is why I take no notice of his posts.
Same old same old, filling forums with spaced out lines to make it look a lot and has the brass-neck to blame others for flooding the forum. He gets on my wick !
That's a bit unfair, Lookout. I don't know where I'd be without Adam's moral support.
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Well I have been answering it in this thread.
Bamber use minimal persuasion, force or both to put Sheila into his chosen position. Then place the rifle & pull the trigger.
A mother with her two children in the house, and you really believe she just laid down? She would have walked into the room and seen June, panicked and ran to her boys.
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A mother with her two children in the house, and you really believe she just laid down? She would have walked into the room and seen June, panicked and ran to her boys.
To me very doubtful she resisted. If she did, Bamber would be too strong for her.
Any questions?
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To me very doubtful she resisted. If she did, Bamber would be too strong for her.
Any questions?
Yes but you are not answering them I am afraid, your whole scenario is just one huge list of unbelievable events. From JB cycling in the the dark, through to the shooting of Sheila and placing the silencer in the cupboard it's just unbelievable!
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Yes but you are not answering them I am afraid, your whole scenario is just one huge list of unbelievable events. From JB cycling in the the dark, through to the shooting of Sheila and placing the silencer in the cupboard it's just unbelievable!
Each to their own.
The police, DPP, jury & COA were given the information on the cycling, silencer & Bamber shooting Sheila.
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Each to their own.
The police, DPP, jury & COA were given the information on the cycling, silencer & Bamber shooting Sheila.
It was 10 to 2 which will always be a problem as it shows there was severe doubt in the jury.