Jeremy Bamber Forum
JEREMY BAMBER CASE => Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion => Topic started by: Adam on July 25, 2021, 03:23:PM
-
Bamber enters main bedroom. Nevill and June are in bed. Asleep.
Bamber fires 5 shots into June. In different locations. From June's side of the bed.
Nevill starts waking while June receives her first 5 shots.
Bamber fires two face shots into Nevill while Nevill is simultaneously getting out of bed.
Bamber and Nevill are now several feet from each other. Bamber aims for the easiest target - Nevill's torso. Firing his final two shots.
----------
The only dissent from this has been from David. Who said there was no blood on Nevill's side of the bed. That is because the time between getting his first two shots & standing up was less than 3 seconds.
-
Bamber was nearest the bedroom door. He would be reluctant to have a fight with Nevill as it may leave him with visible injuries. So it is possible he went downstairs first to re load.
Alternatively it would not be hard for Nevill to get past Bamber. Again he would at first be trying to avoid a physical confrontation.
Once near the kitchen & with realising there would have to be a confrontation, Bamber did not hold back.
-
If Bamber went downstairs first, surely he would have had time to re load. Meaning he could shoot Nevill more times when he arrived in the kitchen and avoid the kitchen fight.
Nevill was injured & would have been moving slowly & loudly after him.
So it is more likely Nevill went downstairs first, closely followed by Bamber.
-
Adam still thinks Nevil somehow contained the blood from his wounds as he ran across the bedroom, to spill it all outside on the landing and stairs.
-
Blood on Junes side of the bed and Junes blood on bedroom floor = Shot in bedroom and bed.
No blood on Nevills side of bed and none of Nevills blood on bedroom floor = Shot outside the bedroom.
There is a trail of blood across the kitchen floor leading to Nevils body, thus you cannot argue his pajamas contained his blood while he was moving.
-
Adam still thinks Nevil somehow contained the blood from his wounds as he ran across the bedroom, to spill it all outside on the landing and stairs.
That is correct.
Nevill was shot with a rifle used for shooting rabbits.
Twice 3 seconds before he was out of bed.
Twice in the torso seconds before he left the bedroom.
No time for blood to hit the floor or bed sheets.
All straight forward.
-
Blood on Junes side of the bed and Junes blood on bedroom floor = Shot in bedroom and bed.
No blood on Nevills side of bed and none of Nevills blood on bedroom floor = Shot outside the bedroom.
There is a trail of blood across the kitchen floor leading to Nevils body, thus you cannot argue his pajamas contained his blood while he was moving.
Agree there would be Nevill's blood in the kitchen.
He had been shot 4 times upstairs, brutally beaten, shot 4 more times & put onto a coal scuttle.
-
No time for blood to hit the floor or bed sheets.
All straight forward.
Hence why Junes blood is all over the bed and carpet after being shot by the same gun. ::)
-
Agree there would be Nevill's blood in the kitchen.
He had been shot 4 times upstairs, brutally beaten, shot 4 more times & put onto a coal scuttle.
Im talking about the trail he left before that
-
Nevill also had other options upstairs, if Bamber had gone downstairs first.
He could check on June, Sheila & the twins and decide on a defence tactic when Bamber went upstairs. Going downstairs would also use up vital energy for an injured man.
It seems certain Nevill went downstairs first, while in trying to stay alive mode. A natural reaction.
-
Hence why Junes blood is all over the bed and carpet after being shot by the same gun. ::)
June crawled along the carpet & died there. She was shot 5 times in bed & stayed there for a long period before the pain woke her.
Nevill didn't.
-
June crawled along the carpet & died there. She was shot 5 times in bed & stayed there for a long period before the pain woke her.
Nevill didn't.
So Nevill ran so quick out the bedroom none of his blood ended up on the carpet. But there was blood on stairs and landing. That must have been due to Nevill having a breather after running so fast.
-
So Nevill ran so quick out the bedroom none of his blood ended up on the carpet. But there was blood on stairs and landing. That must have been due to Nevill having a breather after running so fast.
It all makes sense now. Thanks David.
-
Im talking about the trail he left before that
He was in the main bedroom for seconds while simultaneously being shot.
Not enough time for blood to drip from his head and torso.
-
So Nevill ran so quick out the bedroom none of his blood ended up on the carpet. But there was blood on stairs and landing. That must have been due to Nevill having a breather after running so fast.
People tend to run quickly when already shot and being shot at. Adreleline & trying to stay alive does that to people.
There is a slim chance a small amount of blood would fall onto the stairs. But the carpets were burnt.
-
My thread scenario is straight forward and matches the evidence.
David is kicking and screaming saying huge amounts of blood would be gushing from Nevill's face & torso in a 5-10 second period in the main bedroom. From a rifle used for shooting rabbits!
-
People tend to run quickly when already shot and being shot at. Adreleline & trying to stay alive does that to people.
There is a slim chance a small amount of blood would fall onto the stairs. But the carpets were burnt.
In this notebook, DS Jones records observing spots of blood on the stairs. I'm not sure how credible that is given that these were not noticed, photographed and recorded by SOCO and he did not alert SOCO to this evidence.
-
In this notebook, DS Jones records observing spots of blood on the stairs. I'm not sure how credible that is given that these were not noticed, photographed and recorded by SOCO and he did not alert SOCO to this evidence.
Its in DCI Jones records. Not DS Jones.
-
My previous posts in this thread suggest it more likely Nevill would have exited the main bedroom first. Nevill following Bamber is very unlikely.
The likely time from first shot to bedroom exit would have been 5-10 seconds.
Not enough time to leave a blood trail.
-
Its in DCI Jones records. Not DS Jones.
I thought that was DS Jones. Anyway, it was recorded.
-
My previous posts in this thread suggest it more likely Nevill would have exited the main bedroom first. Nevill following Bamber is very unlikely.
The likely time from first shot to bedroom exit would have been 5-10 seconds.
Not enough time to leave a blood trail.
How many times was he shot during these 5 to 10 seconds, and where on his body was he hit?
-
People tend to run quickly when already shot and being shot at. Adreleline & trying to stay alive does that to people.
Except they don't run towards the person shooting them, they run in the opposite direction.
Nevill would have taken the door to his right into the box room leading to the twins room and hallway.
Your version has Nevil running towards the person shooting him then taking a breather on the stairs.
-
Except they don't run towards the person shooting them, they run in the opposite direction.
Nevill would have taken the door to his right into the box room leading to the twins room and hallway.
Your version has Nevil running towards the person shooting him then taking a breather on the stairs.
Nevill ran to the bedroom exit nearest the stairs.
Bamber would have been behind June's side of the bed. As said Bamber would also be wanting to avoid a physical confrontation.
Nevill would have been aware Bamber was out of bullets.
-
How many times was he shot during these 5 to 10 seconds, and where on his body was he hit?
He was shot twice in the face while in bed. Then twice in the torso while standing.
-
He was shot twice in the face while in bed. Then twice in the torso while standing.
All in the bedroom, in the space of 5 to 10 seconds?
-
All in the bedroom, in the space of 5 to 10 seconds?
Only takes a second to fire a shot.
Only takes 5-10 seconds to get out of bed and exit the bedroom.
-
How many times was he shot during these 5 to 10 seconds, and where on his body was he hit?
Here are the shot locations and trajectories.
-
Only takes a second to fire a shot.
Only takes 5-10 seconds to get out of bed and exit the bedroom.
I didn't say you are wrong. I just asked you to confirm what you are saying.
So he is shot twice in bed, gets out of bed, then is shot twice again, then gets past Jeremy and on to the landing, all in five to 10 seconds.
Admittedly, 10 seconds, when you count it out, is a long time in that type of situation, but I think it must be considered likely for your scenario that he was already awake when Jeremy entered the bedroom. Would you agree? It may be that Jeremy had made enough noise elsewhere in the farmhouse that this had disturbed Nevill's and/or June's sleep.
-
I didn't say you are wrong. I just asked you to confirm what you are saying.
So he is shot twice in bed, gets out of bed, then is shot twice again, then gets past Jeremy and on to the landing, all in five to 10 seconds.
Admittedly, 10 seconds, when you count it out, is a long time in that type of situation, but I think it must be considered likely for your scenario that he was already awake when Jeremy entered the bedroom. Would you agree? It may be that Jeremy had made enough noise elsewhere in the farmhouse that this had disturbed Nevill's and/or June's sleep.
Can't see what would wake Nevill. From a deep sleep behind closed doors.
Bamber had used two bullets on the twins. With silencer attached.
Nevill waking & investigating may mean he goes out of the bedroom. As well as wake June.
-
Can't see what would wake Nevill. From a deep sleep behind closed doors.
Bamber had used two bullets on the twins. With silencer attached.
Nevill waking & investigating may mean he goes out of the bedroom. As well as wake June.
Not necessarily. Remember that, from our perspective, this all happens quite quickly. Nevill may well have been awake and still in bed wondering what the noise was.
I do see your point, though. If Nevill has heard something that is enough to make him wonder, then wouldn't he investigate? Yet what evidence is there that tells us he wasn't either just getting out of bed or even standing in the bedroom as Jeremy entered?
We've gone over all this before, of course, in August last year. Another issue is why it appears that Jeremy shoots June first (for some reason, I had come to that conclusion - I can't now remember why)?
-
If you look closely at the kitchen floor crime scene. You can see a trail of blood on the kitchen floor from the hallway leading to Nevills body.
I guess he must have strowled slowly after that breather he had on the landing upstairs. :))
-
Obviously there is no other scenario than my thread post resulting in the following evidence -
June shot 5 times in bed. In multiple locations.
Nevill shot twice in the face. From inches away.
Nevill shot twice in the torso from feet away.
Nevill quickly leaves the bedroom. A long time before blood would drip from inside Nevill's mouth & through his pyjamas onto the floor.
Appreciate people will try to introduce obstacles.
-
June & Nevill were of course in bed, asleep when Bamber entered the bedroom.
It is the reason he chose this time.
-
Obviously there is no other scenario than my thread post resulting in the following evidence -
June shot 5 times in bed. In multiple locations.
Nevill shot twice in the face. From inches away.
Nevill shot twice in the torso from feet away.
Nevill quickly leaves the bedroom. A long time before blood would drip from inside Nevill's mouth & through his pyjamas onto the floor.
Appreciate people will try to introduce obstacles.
Thanks Adam. It's a good job you're here to put us all right. Appreciate that you are stuck in a bind because you know Jeremy is innocent but you have to keep up the official narrative.
And thanks for the moral support.
If you look closely at the kitchen floor crime scene. You can see a trail of blood on the kitchen floor from the hallway leading to Nevills body.
I guess he must have strowled slowly after that breather he had on the landing upstairs. :))
Jeremy could have at least installed a stair lift for him.
-
Thanks Adam. It's a good job you're here to put us all right. Appreciate that you are stuck in a bind because you know Jeremy is innocent but you have to keep up the official narrative.
And thanks for the moral support.
Jeremy could have at least installed a stair lift for him.
What is your scenario to match the first 9 shots in the bedroom evidence?
-
What is your scenario to match the first 9 shots in the bedroom evidence?
I've provided both Jeremy and Sheila scenarios several times and gone over these. Can't be bothered to do it again, really.
-
I've provided both Jeremy and Sheila scenarios several times and gone over these. Can't be bothered to do it again, really.
It will only take a couple of minutes. You spend enough time on here.
-
It will only take a couple of minutes. You spend enough time on here.
Appreciate that Adam needs to distract attention from his failed scenarios and the demolition of his ideas by David (see above) and so wants me to post up a scenario, even though I have done this a dozen times before.
It's a tough one for Adam because he knows Jeremy is innocent, so he has to fight for the Cause by stealth, providing moral support to misguided people like Fake Justice. If Adam comes out and admits Jeremy is innocent, it could affect his standing on the Red Forum, so he has to play it 'political'.
Thanks Adam.
-
Appreciate that Adam needs to distract attention from his failed scenarios and the demolition of his ideas by David (see above) and so wants me to post up a scenario, even though I have done this a dozen times before.
It's a tough one for Adam because he knows Jeremy is innocent, so he has to fight for the Cause by stealth, providing moral support to misguided people like Fake Justice. If Adam comes out and admits Jeremy is innocent, it could affect his standing on the Red Forum, so he has to play it 'political'.
Thanks Adam.
I have also posted 3D crime scene reconstructions showing how Sheila shot Neville as he came up the stairs.
-
Appreciate that Adam needs to distract attention from his failed scenarios and the demolition of his ideas by David (see above) and so wants me to post up a scenario, even though I have done this a dozen times before.
It's a tough one for Adam because he knows Jeremy is innocent, so he has to fight for the Cause by stealth, providing moral support to misguided people like Fake Justice. If Adam comes out and admits Jeremy is innocent, it could affect his standing on the Red Forum, so he has to play it 'political'.
Thanks Adam.
What are you thanking me for?
If you lied & haven't previously given a scenario, give one now.
Prat.
-
I have also posted 3D crime scene reconstructions showing how Sheila shot Neville as he came up the stairs.
Oh yes. The bouncing bullets.
Sheila getting within an inch of Nevill's face.
-
What are you thanking me for?
If you lied & haven't previously given a scenario, give one now.
Prat.
What you asking Billy Bungalow for, he’s clueless anyway 😂😂😂😂
-
What you asking Billy Bungalow for, he’s clueless anyway 😂😂😂😂
Agree with that.
Trying to have a civilised debate.
QC has gone into his 'Thanks Adam' & 'Adam knows Bamber is innocent' mode.
Why? Because I asked him a question.
-
What are you thanking me for?
If you lied & haven't previously given a scenario, give one now.
Prat.
Another insult.
I have gone into scenarios about a dozen times in great detail. It's my prerogative to post or not. By all means, search for one of my posts and comment on that.
What you asking Billy Bungalow for, he’s clueless anyway 😂😂😂😂
I know more about this case than you and Adam put together and then some.
Your name is Fake Justice because, as well as being illiterate and thick, you're disingenuous, sneaky and tell lies, and you like crawling up the backside of NGB1066.
Why don't you get on your knees and suck his cock right now? He's waiting.
-
Another insult.
I have gone into scenarios about a dozen times in great detail. It's my prerogative to post or not. By all means, search for one of my posts and comment on that.
I know more about this case than you and Adam put together and then some.
Your name is Fake Justice because, as well as being illiterate and thick, you're disingenuous, sneaky and tell lies, and you like crawling up the backside of NGB1066.
Why don't you get on your knees and suck his cock right now? He's waiting.
LMAO
-
I have also posted 3D crime scene reconstructions showing how Sheila shot Neville as he came up the stairs.
Do you agree my thread scenario works.
Apart from Nevill not gushing out two pints of blood in 5-10 seconds in the main bedroom. From a rifle used for shooting rabbits?
-
If Nevill and June were asleep when JB enters the bedroom then why shoot June first? JB would take no risks and shoot Nevill first.
I have not suggested a scenario as to me this is just pure guesswork but your scenario makes no sense to me anyway.
-
Do you agree my thread scenario works.
No.
-
If Nevill and June were asleep when JB enters the bedroom then why shoot June first? JB would take no risks and shoot Nevill first.
I have not suggested a scenario as to me this is just pure guesswork but your scenario makes no sense to me anyway.
You will never supply a Sheila scenario. You are too scared.
-
No.
It matches -
Shot locations.
How near the shots were to the targets.
Nevill & June being asleep.
-
If Nevill and June were asleep when JB enters the bedroom then why shoot June first? JB would take no risks and shoot Nevill first.
I have not suggested a scenario as to me this is just pure guesswork but your scenario makes no sense to me anyway.
He was on June's side of the bed. So shot her first.
He still had 4 bullets left for head shots to Nevill. And was only a few seconds away from 4 head shots.
-
The only way Nevill would have gushed out 2 pints of blood in the main bedroom, was if he was shot by one of the shot guns.
He would have also died in the bedroom. After one shot.
-
Another insult.
I have gone into scenarios about a dozen times in great detail. It's my prerogative to post or not. By all means, search for one of my posts and comment on that.
I know more about this case than you and Adam put together and then some.
Your name is Fake Justice because, as well as being illiterate and thick, you're disingenuous, sneaky and tell lies, and you like crawling up the backside of NGB1066.
Why don't you get on your knees and suck his cock right now? He's waiting.
You have finally done it. You have earned a ban.
-
You will never supply a Sheila scenario. You are too scared.
No I am not sacred but I am new to the case and my knowledge is no where near as good as most members on the forum. Some of you have studied the case in minute detail for years.
As I have said before I believe the events started in the kitchen, with your scenario no blood on NB's side of the bed is hard to explain in my view.
-
You will never supply a Sheila scenario. You are too scared.
That's no way to speak to a comparatively new poster ! Ill-mannered oaf.
-
You will never supply a Sheila scenario. You are too scared.
What makes you think that you're any better with your long drawn-out posts of nothingness ?
-
If Nevill and June were asleep when JB enters the bedroom then why shoot June first? JB would take no risks and shoot Nevill first.
I have not suggested a scenario as to me this is just pure guesswork but your scenario makes no sense to me anyway.
Nevill and June were asleep when Bamber entered the main bedroom. The evidence shows this.
It was 2.30am. June was shot 5 times in bed. Nevill received two bedroom face shots from inches away.
-
That's no way to speak to a comparatively new poster ! Ill-mannered oaf.
Rob needed to elaborate after saying my scenario 'made no sense'. My scenario followed the evidence.
When are you going to supply a Sheila scenario? The massacre was 36 years ago.
-
It matches -
Shot locations.
How near the shots were to the targets.
Nevill & June being asleep.
No, it doesn't. Because there is none of Nevills blood in the bedroom. You can make up as many excuses as for why that is, but its not going to change anything.
Your scenario has Nevil shot in the bedroom but only bleeding outside the bedroom. It simply doesn't work.
-
No, it doesn't. Because there is none of Nevills blood in the bedroom. You can make up as many excuses as for why that is, but its not going to change anything.
Your scenario has Nevil shot in the bedroom but only bleeding outside the bedroom. It simply doesn't work.
Nevill was shot 4 times in the main bedroom. By a rifle used for shooting rabbits.
The two face shots, blood would build up inside the mouth.
The two torso shots. It would be a long time before blood would get through Nevill's pyjamas and drip onto the floor.
Nevill had exited the main bedroom within 10 seconds of getting his first shot.
Of course his blood will be in the kitchen.
-
Nevill was shot 4 times in the main bedroom. By a rifle used for shooting rabbits.
The two face shots, blood would build up inside the mouth.
The two torso shots. It would be a long time before blood would get through Nevill's pyjamas and drip onto the floor.
Nevill had exited the main bedroom within 10 seconds of getting his first shot.
Of course his blood will be in the kitchen.
You cannot have someone shot four times in a room they never bled in. It doesn't work.
As for Nevills blood in the kitchen, I am referring to the blood drops trial he left along the floor before he was beaten and shot again.
-
You cannot have someone shot four times in a room they never bled in. It doesn't work.
As for Nevills blood in the kitchen, I am referring to the blood drops trial he left along the floor before he was beaten and shot again.
In this instance you can. For the tenth time -
Nevill was shot by a rifle used for shooting rabbits.
After the first 4 shots, Nevill was able to leave the bedroom within seconds, get downstairs & put up a tremendous fight for life in the kitchen. So the first 4 shots did not cause severe.or immediate loss of blood.
The face shots, blood would well up inside the mouth.
The torso shots would take a lot time before they produced enough blood to drip through pyjamas and onto the floor.
Nevill had left the bed within 3 seconds of his first shot. So no time for any dripping blood.
Nevill had excited the bedroom within 10 seconds of his first shot. So no time for any dripping blood.
Not sure what else I can say.
-
Obviously only the murderer will know the correct sequence. But my opinion is that Adam is close enough with his version of the first 9 shots.
Be very interested in Adam putting up the rest of his version of the murders and the counter arguments others will put up. Only issue is that the silly pettiness and name calling that goes on. It spoils the debate a little bit.
But was the evidence strong enough, was the case proven beyond reasonable doubt.Bit surprised a 10-2 majority verdict was deemed to be acceptable in a case of this magnitude.
-
Obviously only the murderer will know the correct sequence. But my opinion is that Adam is close enough with his version of the first 9 shots.
Be very interested in Adam putting up the rest of his version of the murders and the counter arguments others will put up. Only issue is that the silly pettiness and name calling that goes on. It spoils the debate a little bit.
But was the evidence strong enough, was the case proven beyond reasonable doubt.Bit surprised a 10-2 majority verdict was deemed to be acceptable in a case of this magnitude.
I agree, with the nature of the investigation only the killer will know exact details, but obviously Neville was shot upstairs, and in the kitchen because of the shell casings. They was all close contact shots so it would be close to where the shell casings fell especially on carpet?
-
You cannot have someone shot four times in a room they never bled in. It doesn't work.
As for Nevills blood in the kitchen, I am referring to the blood drops trial he left along the floor before he was beaten and shot again.
The investigation was shocking, bloodstained carpets torn up and burned alongside tainted furniture before the crime scene was fully investigated. Neville could have spilled droplets of blood without it being examined. All Taff was bothered about could Sheila have shot herself twice, anything else went amiss.
-
This is what Wikipedia says about the shell casings for what it's worth:
Nevill was found in the kitchen, dressed in pyjamas, lying over an overturned chair next to the fireplace, amid a scene suggestive of a struggle. He had been shot eight times, six times to the head and face, fired when the rifle was a few inches from his skin. The remaining shots to his body had occurred from at least two feet away. Based on where the empty cartridges were found—three in the kitchen and one on the stairs—the police concluded that he had been shot four times upstairs, but had managed to get downstairs where a struggle took place, and during which he was hit several times with the rifle and shot again, this time fatally
-
This is what Wikipedia says about the shell casings for what it's worth:
Nevill was found in the kitchen, dressed in pyjamas, lying over an overturned chair next to the fireplace, amid a scene suggestive of a struggle. He had been shot eight times, six times to the head and face, fired when the rifle was a few inches from his skin. The remaining shots to his body had occurred from at least two feet away. Based on where the empty cartridges were found—three in the kitchen and one on the stairs—the police concluded that he had been shot four times upstairs, but had managed to get downstairs where a struggle took place, and during which he was hit several times with the rifle and shot again, this time fatally
It has to be that way because of the cartridges Steve. It will not have a precise point upstairs like it has downstairs.
-
I would be more impressed if you followed all the evidence and not just the bits which fit with your guilter posture.
-
That's no way to speak to a comparatively new poster ! Ill-mannered oaf.
I'm glad to say this is one of those occasions we are in full agreement.
-
Obviously only the murderer will know the correct sequence. But my opinion is that Adam is close enough with his version of the first 9 shots.
Be very interested in Adam putting up the rest of his version of the murders and the counter arguments others will put up. Only issue is that the silly pettiness and name calling that goes on. It spoils the debate a little bit.
But was the evidence strong enough, was the case proven beyond reasonable doubt.Bit surprised a 10-2 majority verdict was deemed to be acceptable in a case of this magnitude.
These are the first 9 shots in the main bedroom. Bamber had already shot Nicholas & Daniel once each.
Obviously this is the only credible explanation for the first 9 bedroom shots which matches the evidence. David's counter that blood would be gushing out of Nevill onto the floor within 10 seconds carries no weight.
I have posted a full scenario. Reply 142.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10102.msg468794.html#msg468794
-
These are the first 9 shots in the main bedroom. Bamber had already shot Nicholas & Daniel once each.
Obviously this is the only credible explanation for the first 9 bedroom shots which matches the evidence. David's counter that blood would be gushing out of Nevill onto the floor within 10 seconds carries no weight.
I have posted a full scenario. Reply 142.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10102.msg468794.html#msg468794
I don’t think they were bothered about the exact position Neville was shot, the shell casings told them he was shot upstairs and last off in the kitchen, the investigation by “Taff” was very poor, all he was bothered about could Sheila have shot herself twice, when Vanezis was asked this Question from Day one and he said it was possible, that was enough for “Taff”
-
Five carpet samples taken from the main bedroom were examined and found to bear numerous spots of dripped blood. These were tested and found to match the blood groupings of June Bamber. Wallpaper from the hallway to the left-hand side of the kitchen door was found, on examination, to be stained with human blood consistent with the blood grouping shared by Nevill Bamber and the twin boys.
----------
Supporting the very slim chance that Nevill's blood would have gushed from the main bedroom within 10 seconds from his first 4 shots. Only 5 carpet samples were tested.
-
Perhaps you would kindly accept this tribute song chosen Just for you
I hope it does not give you nightmares when you go to bed. Leave the light on.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Frank+Luther+The+Three+Billy+Goats+Gruff&docid=608027641072402969&mid=F654A7B439BB5EAF8AD1F654A7B439BB5EAF8AD1&view=detail&FORM=VRAASM&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3DThree%2BBilly%2BGoats%2BGruff%2BSong%26Form%3DVDRSCL%26%3D0
-
Supporting the very slim chance that Nevill's blood would have gushed from the main bedroom within 10 seconds from his first 4 shots. Only 5 carpet samples were tested.
Yes, Nevil contained all his blood from four gunshots while in the bedroom, only to spill it all outside on the landing. Makes perfect sense.
-
Yes, Nevil contained all his blood from four gunshots while in the bedroom, only to spill it all outside on the landing. Makes perfect sense.
He didn't 'spill it all out outside on the landing' -
'Wallpaper from the hallway to the left-hand side of the kitchen door'.
-
The hallway carpet was not tested.
Only 5 samples of the bedroom carpet were tested. Which matched June's. This is not surprising as she was shot 7 times and died there.
So both mine and David's scenario's can work after Nevill received his first 4 shots from Bamber.
Still believe Nevill leaked no blood in the 10 second period he was receiving his 4 shots in the bedroom. Due to the low power of the rifle.
-
The hallway carpet was not tested.
.
Indeed it wasn't but blood was seen on it. And it can be proven to be Nevils via a process of elimination.
-
Indeed it wasn't but blood was seen on it. And it can be proven to be Nevils via a process of elimination.
Blood was seen on it. Source please.
Both yours & my blood scenarios work during the 10 second period Nevill was in the bedroom & received his first 4 shots.
There is a very slim chance a drop of blood fell from inside his face or through his pyjamas. This was not picked up in the 5 carpet samples tested. Maybe June's blood negated it.
As said it is much more likely no blood dripped from Nevill in the main bedroom.
Either way matches my thread post scenario.
-
If I argue that SC would not have been able to fend off Nevill, then it could be said if he couldn't land a blow on Jeremy then it's very conceivable, that given the early wounds he suffered, that he wasn't in any fit state to land a blow of any significanceon any person.
Then if we believe JB over the phone calls, then we have a reasonable fit Nevill, knowing Sheila has the Anschutz and has "gone berserk"...comes out of his bedroom, with the possibility that Sheila has already shot the twins and may have alreafy shot June, gets to the phone and makes the calls, then goes back upstairs to be shot without laying a finger on Sheila.
If it was JB why did he bother with the phones calls.Do the murders, get back to Head St.Back to bed.Claim he had business in town. Wait to be told. He's not stupid, so why did he,if it was him, complicate the whole thing with the phone calls. All kinds of issues about timing come into it. Police would be very suspicious as well. Think he thought the Nevill call to the police would seal the deal. Was he/is he so arrogant that he thought could put up this front and fool everybody.
Again would he be so stupid as to leave the sound moderater lying about. He must have known the thing would be contaminated as he had shot people at almost point blank range.
Again would he be daft enough to tell Julie what he intended to do. All been said before I know but as the case is on it's last legs I can't see JB getting out anytime soon.May be he is where he deserves to be.
-
Obviously the 5 carpet samples tested would be where there was most blood. This would be where June crawled along the floor after being shot 5 times or the location where she died.
A drop of blood from Nevill would not be found. Thought they had similar blood types anyway.
-
IF it had been JB, he could have got away with the crime easily as if Arthur had said, he hadn't mentioned the phone-calls at all because there was no evidence whatsoever at the scene that JB had been present that night/ morning.
-
IF it had been JB, he could have got away with the crime easily as if Arthur had said, he hadn't mentioned the phone-calls at all because there was no evidence whatsoever at the scene that JB had been present that night/ morning.
He could have. But preferred to create the siege situation where he could spend several hours insinuating Sheila.
-
He could have. But preferred to create the siege situation where he could spend several hours insinuating Sheila.
Who in their right mind would " create a siege situation "? JB was found not to have any mental issues, so it wasn't him.
When you've finished splitting hairs and scraping the barrel I'm afraid that you'll find that I've been right all along. 8)
-
David's counter to the 9 shot scenario on the bedroom has been dismissed. The only other counter was from QC who said Nevill may have been awake when Bamber entered the main bedroom.
There is no reason why Nevill would have woken from a deep sleep behind closed doors. The twins made no noise & the rifle was silent with silencer attached.
The evidence is Nevill's first two face shots were from inches away. This would not have happened if Nevill was awake when Bamber entered the main bedroom. Ditto June being shot 5 times in bed.
-
https://youtu.be/SNrlfDPC_xs
The walls and doors in a house that big would be thick. So impossible that Nevill or June would wake.
Bamber intially only fired two shots into Daniel & Nicholas.
-
After the first 11 shots, the evidence shows the straight forward scenario for the next 14.
Do not know why people try to fight it.
-
After the first 11 shots, the evidence shows the straight forward scenario for the next 14.
Do not know why people try to fight it.
Because you have the wrong person firing the shots?
-
Because you have the wrong person firing the shots?
Still waiting for your Sheila scenario.
-
None of Nevils blood was on the main bedroom floor. Adam still believes, Jeremy (who had plenty of experience shooting) Fired 9 shots at two sleeping targets at point blank range and failed to kill them. Nevil then ran past Jeremy while containing his blood so he could spill it all outside the bedroom. That's not plausible.
While Sheila took the gun upstairs to shoot June. Nevill rang Jeremy. Nevil ended the call and ran upstairs as he heard shots being fired. Sheila had fired five shots at June. She then pivoted and shot Nevill with the remaining four bullets in the magazine as Nevill came up the stairs.
One shell casing was found a few steps down the landing. I believe three of the shell casings from shots fired a Nevil bounced off the wall, while one went passed the door frame onto the landing area. As the reconstruction below illustrates
(http://i.imgur.com/CGCOvJs.gif)
-
None of Nevils blood was on the main bedroom floor. Adam still believes, Jeremy (who had plenty of experience shooting) Fired 9 shots at two sleeping targets at point blank range and failed to kill them. Nevil then ran past Jeremy while containing his blood so he could spill it all outside the bedroom. That's not plausible.
While Sheila took the gun upstairs to shoot June. Nevill rang Jeremy. Nevil ended the call and ran upstairs as he heard shots being fired. Sheila had fired five shots at June. She then pivoted and shot Nevill with the remaining four bullets in the magazine as Nevill came up the stairs.
One shell casing was found a few steps down the landing. I believe three of the shell casings from shots fired a Nevil bounced off the wall, while one went passed the door frame onto the landing area. As the reconstruction below illustrates
(http://i.imgur.com/CGCOvJs.gif)
David, Nevill did not ring Bamber after Sheila started shooting the twins.
My thread post follows the evidence.
Blood would only gush from inside Nevill's mouth & through his pyjamas within 10 seconds if he had been shot by a shot gun. In that case, Nevill would have died in the bedroom.
-
I have already agreed with David that a drop of blood may have fallen from Nevill in the main bedroom.
The 5 carpet samples tested did not pick this up amongst the mountain of June's blood.
-
Bamber enters main bedroom. Nevill and June are in bed. Asleep.
Bamber fires 5 shots into June. In different locations. From June's side of the bed.
Nevill starts waking while June receives her first 5 shots.
Bamber fires two face shots into Nevill while Nevill is simultaneously getting out of bed.
Bamber and Nevill are now several feet from each other. Bamber aims for the easiest target - Nevill's torso. Firing his final two shots.
----------
Not sure how much simpler I can make it.
-
Of course Nevill & June were in bed & asleep when Bamber entered the main bedroom.
How else was he able to fire 5 shots into June while she lay in bed & then 2 face shots into Nevill from inches away?
-
Not sure how much simpler I can make it.
Its hard to tell the exact location of the shots to Neville, but this is the official version anyway.
If one accepts that the four shots to the head which would have immobilised and killed Nevill Bamber were fired in the kitchen where his body was recovered, it would follow that he had received the less serious injuries upstairs in the bedroom and was then able to make his way downstairs where he was subsequently killed.
In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber’s body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body.
So the rifle was within inches for six shots and the shell casings were found in the bedroom and kitchen with one on the stairs.
-
Its hard to tell the exact location of the shots to Neville, but this is the official version anyway.
If one accepts that the four shots to the head which would have immobilised and killed Nevill Bamber were fired in the kitchen where his body was recovered, it would follow that he had received the less serious injuries upstairs in the bedroom and was then able to make his way downstairs where he was subsequently killed.
In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber’s body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body.
So the rifle was within inches for six shots and the shell casings were found in the bedroom and kitchen with one on the stairs.
One must consider the fact that Malcom Fletcher came to this conclusion by looking at autopsy photographs. And did not inspect the actual wounds as would be best practice.
And when you also factor in that Nevils head was in contact with a coal scuttle. Its very possible that Fletchers opinion is being skewed by a phenomenon known as "Pseudo Powder Tattooing"
https://www.bevfitchett.us/gunshot-wounds/stippling-powder-tattooing-and-pseudopowder-tattooing.html (https://www.bevfitchett.us/gunshot-wounds/stippling-powder-tattooing-and-pseudopowder-tattooing.html)
-
One must consider the fact that Malcom Fletcher came to this conclusion by looking at autopsy photographs. And did not inspect the actual wounds as would be best practice.
And when you also factor in that Nevils head was in contact with a coal scuttle. Its very possible that Fletchers opinion is being skewed by a phenomenon known as "Pseudo Powder Tattooing"
https://www.bevfitchett.us/gunshot-wounds/stippling-powder-tattooing-and-pseudopowder-tattooing.html (https://www.bevfitchett.us/gunshot-wounds/stippling-powder-tattooing-and-pseudopowder-tattooing.html)
I agree it’s very hard to say exactly where the shots was fired from. I would have thought that if the shots were fired from any further distance than a few feet they could tell? But the investigation was shocking so who knows?
-
Bamber would fire for the head when the rifle was inches away. He would not risk missing and wasting bullets on such a small target from feet away.
The two torso shots were from feet away when Nevill was more mobile. The torso being the bigger target.
-
So the rifle was within inches for six shots and the shell casings were found in the bedroom and kitchen with one on the stairs.
Bullet cases 'DRH/1', DRH/2', 'DRH/3' and 'DRH/4', were added into the main bedroom scenario, once the nature of the police investigation changed from being one of 'Four murders and a suicide', into an investigation of 'five murders. Therefore, police have' tampered with the crime scene' in order to make out the false case that' Neville Bamber' was shot four times whilst upstairs [`Shot three times in the main bedroom, and a further shot as he was either coming up, or going down the main staircase] !
-
COA
In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body.
-
The four fatal headshots were inflicted whilst 'Neville Bamber' was sat perched on one of the two wooden chairs situated on the kitchen side of the internal doorway that offers entry to either the main kitchen, and the hallway on the opposite side of the said door...
-
The four fatal headshots were inflicted whilst 'Neville Bamber' was sat perched on one of the two wooden chairs situated on the kitchen side of the internal doorway that offers entry to either the main kitchen, and the hallway on the opposite side of the said door...
All of these four fatal head shots could have been inflicted by a member of the raid party who were being delayed from entering the main kitchen because there was something big and heavy on the kitchen side of the door preventing them from moving deeper into the premises..
COPS shot 'Sheila' at more or less the same time, and mistakenly thought she was dead in the kitchen..
That's a 'total of five bullets' , that police needed to account for by other means, because 'five live rounds' were 'discharged from a police weapon' at 'the time of entry into the farmhouse' [`four shots to the head' of 'Neville Bamber', and one shot into 'Sheila Caffells' neck]..
-
COA
In respect of the eight shots into Nevill Bamber's body, the six to his head and face were fired when the rifle was within a few inches of the skin. The remaining injuries to the arm were caused when the gun was at least two feet from the body.
Thats how I read it as well, you have to remember, the shell casings would have less bounce when ejected in the carpet as opposed to the kitchen floor?
-
I have already agreed with David that a drop of blood may have fallen from Nevill in the main bedroom.
The 5 carpet samples tested did not pick this up amongst the mountain of June's blood.
The " mountain " of June's blood was destroyed along with the blood-sodden carpet which covered the main bedroom.
-
"Bamber fires two face shots into Nevill while Nevill is simultaneously getting out of bed"...
Surely the big issue here is how did Nevill, amongst all this carnage, make his way to the phone and make two phone calls.
Reading through some of the posts and theories it was like the wild west in there. Probable truth is they were all dead by 2.45am ish and JB made the call to Police then raced back home to make the second call. It's no big mystery.
-
The " mountain " of June's blood was destroyed along with the blood-sodden carpet which covered the main bedroom.
No, it wasn't.
-
This is Haywards testimony on the carpet blood. The blood on the socks also found on the floor was June Bamber's also.
-
It seems the capet in the hallway was not tested. As there was no visible blood there.
Not sure what the point of testing the bedroom carpet was. The evidence shows Sheila & June were shot 9 times in the bedroom & died there. ['Sheila received a shot downstairs in the kitchen']
The twins & Nevill's blood will be in seperate rooms.