Very very weird aspect of the case. A strong point talking prosecution wise. But when you look at the broad picture it doesn't add up.
Why would the gulity bamber tell her of what he was planning to do? How would he know that she wouldn't dob in him straight away. Wouldn't it have been better from bambers perspective. If he had been scheming this... From 1984 at the earliest.. to keep it all to himself?. He had no reason to tell Julie of what he was doing. Bamber isn't an idiot. He would know he would be digging himself an hole. She would bring the whole thing crashing down. Who could live with the fact knowing their partner had killed his family and got away with it?, Of course bamber would be aware of this. Of course he would readily knew the potential damage he had done by confiding in Julie mugford.
Look at bambers behaviour post massacre. Having it off with other woman. His closeness to Brett collins. Distancing himself from Julie. By bambers own words by early 1985 he was losing interest in julie. Its madness to think that Bamber would tell her of his murderous intention from the outset. But to carry on like he did post massacre..... He might as well have said " go to the police and tell them"
I'm not aware of Jeremy bamber ever saying on record. Or Julie mugford stating that Bamber had threatened her with the words " if you ever go to the police I will end you" he, as his behaviour suggests didn't care much for Julie. He wasn't afraid of the fact she could bring down on him. Which rationally you think he would be
It boils down to Jeremy bambers arragonce. His stupidity or it never happened
You know Juiie would never perjure herself so seriously.The reality is starkly Adam it would better to keep her on side for the rest of his life. It didn't matter if bamber would have stayed free for another five years post massacre. Stan Jones and others suspected his gulit from day one. He would have to keep Julie " sweet" for the rest of his life if he wanted to remain a free man. Do you honestly believe he could just dump her and carry on his life coinsiding alongside what he had told Julie. And not her expect her to go to the police eventually? His relatives suspected him. The verdict would have always been dubious. In fact I'd go as far that if Jeremy bamber had got away with it he'd been treated akin media wise the same as the Lawrence suspects were. Maybe on a smaller scale
Bamber was telling Julie of his raw deal & then plans from early on.
After the massacre, Julie would know it was Bamber so there was no point him denying it to her. Better to keep her by his side for the next month.
The reality is starkly Adam it would better to keep her on side for the rest of his life. It didn't matter if bamber would have stayed free for another five years post massacre. Stan Jones and others suspected his gulit from day one. He would have to keep Julie " sweet" for the rest of his life if he wanted to remain a free man. Do you honestly believe he could just dump her and carry on his life coinsiding alongside what he had told Julie. And not her expect her to go to the police eventually? His relatives suspected him. The verdict would have always been dubious. In fact I'd go as far that if Jeremy bamber had got away with it he'd been treated akin media wise the same as the Lawrence suspects were. Maybe on a smaller scale
He didn't dump her. It seems like both wanted out. Julie because of what she knew. Bamber because he thought he was clear.It does not matter even if he didn't strictly end the relationship. It was inevitable though that would be the end product. Virginia, his nochalant approach to Julie and his distancing from her. It may have ended amicably as Julie said. But they weren't children. Jeremy would have been actively aware of the massive shit Julie could land him in. He effectively signed his own gulity verdict if Julie is to believed.
The minute she heard the shocking crime had actually taken place including the murder of two young children what would the vast majority of people do? go straight to the police!
That is if she really thought it was JB.
If she was scared all the more reason to go to the police?exactly its a natural reaction..
Very very weird aspect of the case. A strong point talking prosecution wise. But when you look at the broad picture it doesn't add up.
Why would the gulity bamber tell her of what he was planning to do? How would he know that she wouldn't dob in him straight away. Wouldn't it have been better from bambers perspective. If he had been scheming this... From 1984 at the earliest.. to keep it all to himself?. He had no reason to tell Julie of what he was doing. Bamber isn't an idiot. He would know he would be digging himself an hole. She would bring the whole thing crashing down. Who could live with the fact knowing their partner had killed his family and got away with it?, Of course bamber would be aware of this. Of course he would readily knew the potential damage he had done by confiding in Julie mugford.
Look at bambers behaviour post massacre. Having it off with other woman. His closeness to Brett collins. Distancing himself from Julie. By bambers own words by early 1985 he was losing interest in julie. Its madness to think that Bamber would tell her of his murderous intention from the outset. But to carry on like he did post massacre..... He might as well have said " go to the police and tell them"
I'm not aware of Jeremy bamber ever saying on record. Or Julie mugford stating that Bamber had threatened her with the words " if you ever go to the police I will end you" he, as his behaviour suggests didn't care much for Julie. He wasn't afraid of the fact she could bring down on him. Which rationally you think he would be
It boils down to Jeremy bambers arragonce. His stupidity or it never happened
The minute she heard the shocking crime had actually taken place including the murder of two young children what would the vast majority of people do? go straight to the police!
That is if she really thought it was JB.
It's a very good point. I don't buy " she was scared. She was terrified" Jeremy had not if we are to believe her committed mortgage fraud. He had committed five murders.
I for one would like to know Julie's demeanour from the journey from lewisham to Essex. And the conversation she had with the officers. I think it's a key point. I wish I was a fly on the wall for that car journey
At 20 I think the vast majority of people would go straight to the police, if you really believed the person did the crime.
JB may have said untoward things about his family to Julie at times, I have had people over the years say terrible things to me about what they would do if the wife left etc.
But no one can be this foolish? or can they?
I think what happened is that it took the police interview after interview after interview trying to get Julie to change her statement saying things like we know he did it we just need your help...?
In her situation, there were lots of disadvantages of Julie approaching the police after a month. If innocent -But it's argued she wasn't thinking rationally but she can still weigh up her career prospects being ruined.?,
There was no evidence against Bamber. He was innocent.
She would be charged by the police. When caught lying. Bamber was innocent.
Having a criminal record may effect her teaching career.
To make Bamber look bad, she had to implicate herself in the caravan break in. Effecting her teaching career ?
Her own 1984 crime may come to light. Effecting her teaching career ?
There was no financial reward in approaching the police.
It shows she was upset about splitting up with Bamber.
She would be on her own. No other witnesses could support her claims. Bamber was innocent.
Bamber would have the last laugh. When Julie was exposed.
She would have to follow through her approach. Right through to the ultimate (unlikely) conviction. Lying to the world.
It would show she was vindictive. Once exposed.
She may quickly wilt under pressure. This is something she had never attempted before, and a massive long term lie. So why bother in the first place ?
It would show she had no sympathy for a grieving man. Once exposed.
It would show how upset she was that she was no longer with Bamber. Once exposed.
It would show she was stupid. Once exposed.
An approach may ultimately be time consuming. Depending on her success. Taking up months or years of her life. Effecting her second degree and teaching career.
It would be her word against Bamber's. For the last month the police had treated it as murder/suicide, which was correct as she knew he was innocent.
She will not know the details of the forensic evidence. It may show Sheila was the killer. Which would not be surprising as Bamber was innocent.
It would be bringing other people into this, such the deceased grieving relatives and her own friends and relatives.
She may feel bad after her initial approach. But is coming clean now an option ?
She had already given a WS and gone around with Bamber for one month. The police will know she had approached them after she split with Bamber.
She was attempting to reverse a decision announced in the media, which the police were in public sticking to - murder/suicide. One month after the massacre.
Her approach may only last a few minutes. Experienced police officers may dismiss it, after all Bamber was innocent. Bamber may not even find out about Julie's attempt for revenge.
If an unsuccessful police approach became news in the media, she would forever be looked upon as a heartless and lying woman. Friends and relatives may desert her.
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These disadvantages really still applied if Bamber was guilty. If Bamber had covered his tracks.
Doubt there were any conversations in the police car. The driver had been told to pick her up & take her WHF. Neither aware what had happened.
Doubt there were any conversations in the police car. The driver had been told to pick her up & take her WHF. Neither aware what had happened.that's laughable. Julie would have known what have happened. " I've been on the tractor thinking all day tonights the night"
that's laughable. Julie would have known what have happened. " I've been on the tractor thinking all day tonights the night"
It may not be safe to believe something won't be done because of a act of folly, but having committed the act of folly we are in this case expected to believe that someone with this knowledge will then withhold it in such a serious case?
Juries are instructed they can use their experience in reaching a decision?
Do you believe July should have started accusing Bamber on the way to WHF?What did she have to accuse him of exactly? She knew full well he was responsible.Bamber had relayed to her his intentions of what he was going to do.
It may not be safe to believe something won't be done because of a act of folly, but having committed the act of folly we are in this case expected to believe that someone with this knowledge will then withhold it in such a serious case?
Juries are instructed they can use their experience in reaching a decision?
I don't follow what you are saying, sorry. What knowledge did he withhold from her?
And jurors know that people do foolish things all the time, often for no apparent reason.
Sorry I meant to say that once JB had implied to Julie what he was planning, and then on the night phoned her to say it was going well (act of folly etc.), Julie with this knowledge withheld it until she eventually came forward which I find hard to accept.
She should have told the police at the earliest opportunity.I agree 100%.
This was five counts of murder. Committed by Bamber. ByJulie's own admission. He had told her of her intentions. He had been going on about it for months. He has said to her its " tonight or never"
She was a 20 year old girl. It would have knocked her for six. Would you even want to be in the vicinity of Bamber?
She should have told the police at the earliest opportunity.
This was five counts of murder. Committed by Bamber. ByJulie's own admission. He had told her of her intentions. He had been going on about it for months. He has said to her its " tonight or never"
She was a 20 year old girl. It would have knocked her for six. Would you even want to be in the vicinity of Bamber?
Well she started telling people after around two weeks. Then told the police after a month. For a variety of obvious reasons.I accept its facts via a court of law. But one can always have an opinion and draw inference how they see fit. I know I'm not in a club of one. This man claims he is victim of a miscarriage of justice
You just have to accept it.
Well she started telling people after around two weeks. Then told the police after a month. For a variety of obvious reasons.Just out of interest, you don't find any of Julie's actions strange?
You just have to accept it.
When do you think she should/could have approached the police?
She told 5 people beforehand. So had probably decided to approach the police within around 2 weeks after the massacre.
Reasons Julie waited a month before approaching the police -it doesn't add up Adam.
She was Bamber's girlfriend.
She may not have wanted to believe he was responsible.
She was in a new situation.
She had already signed a WS & not accused Bamber.
The police were treating it as murder/suicide.
The media were treating it as murder/suicide.
Bamber was very confident & told her she would not be believed.
Bamber started taking her on trips away from Essex.
She wanted to talk to other people she knew first.
If she did approach the police & was not believed there were a lot of disadvantages. See reply 15.
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All pretty strong.
I agree 100%.
I agree 100%.
Course it knocked her for six???? That’s why she went on a jolly to the mortuaryHere to disrupt the forum again, not going the way you like it!
Fake Justice confirmed again
I would love to interview every single member of that jury and find out how many beloved Julie 100? Having all the under PII
Go crawling back to your lying mates at Osea Park
Course it knocked her for six???? That’s why she went on a jolly to the mortuaryJackie Preece enters the fray again, accusing the relatives and Julie! I think your best suited to the wide awake club, you can organise Bamber’s coming home party again! Shame it didn’t happen for you last time. Anymore letters you want to post about Jezza and the money and stamps you used to send the child killer?
Fake Justice confirmed again
I would love to interview every single member of that jury and find out how many beloved Julie 100? Having all the under PII
Go crawling back to your lying mates at Osea Park
Here to disrupt the forum again, not going the way you like it!
Are you and JP not on the same page regarding Julie Mugford? In a manner of speaking. It seems both of you believe that Julie staying quiet was abhorrent (if her testimony is true).Ive never said any different Roch, she should have been charged along with Bamber. I’m apologising to NGB for my behaviour, but I’m sure he would agree an unprovoked and undeserved attack by any member deserves the response I gave her. She purposely came on to do what she did, she can’t debate, it’s a well known fact!
Reasons Julie waited a month before approaching the police -Just a personal point of view. Do you find of Julie's actions strange in the slightest?
She was Bamber's girlfriend.
She may not have wanted to believe he was responsible.
She was in a new situation.
She had already signed a WS & not accused Bamber.
The police were treating it as murder/suicide.
The media were treating it as murder/suicide.
Bamber was very confident & told her she would not be believed.
Bamber started taking her on trips away from Essex.
She wanted to talk to other people she knew first.
If she did approach the police & was not believed there were a lot of disadvantages. See reply 15.
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All pretty strong.
Just a personal point of view. Do you find of Julie's actions strange in the slightest?
Here to disrupt the forum again, not going the way you like it!
Are you and JP not on the same page regarding Julie Mugford? In a manner of speaking. It seems both of you believe that Julie staying quiet was abhorrent (if her testimony is true).
Roch I was responding to thisI think there's been a mix up here
She was a 20 year old girl. It would have knocked her for six.
Fake Justice said he agreed 100% meaning this as a defence
I have never seen ANYTHING on this forum where she appears nocked for six hence her jolly to the morgue