Author Topic: Re: The murder of Jodi Jones  (Read 197042 times)

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Offline Parky41

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Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #1620 on: October 04, 2019, 12:23:AM »
AGAIN. Lets get this answered.

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Also, do you not state in your book about a man following Jodi into this path, this man, being one who was also on the path?
Or did the person who copied these extracts, get it wrong?


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No, I did not. I have never claimed Stocky Man "followed Jodi into the path" - I've always taken the stance that no-one, ever, saw Jodi walk into the entrance to the path, so how could  possibly have said what you claim here? However, Stocky Man should also have been included in the reconstruction as his presence at 5.05pm, on the Easthouses Road, behind Jodi, was confirmed by 2 witnesses.

Sandra denies having written or implied that

Which in turn means that the person 'Amma' did not copy the following -Verbatim.

That none of the following is Ms Leans work:

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Mr Scrimger, the forensics officer who was first to examine the scene of the crime, stated that the killer would "not necessarily" be heavily bloodstained. To back this up, he agreed with the prosecution suggestion that Jodi may have been sitting or kneeling when her throat was cut from behind, explaining a blood spray stain on the wall being the result of the blood spraying forwards – i.e., away from the killer. However, there are a few problems with this explanation – firstly, the case against Luke was that he had compressed her neck until she fell, unconscious, to the ground. Since we know that unconscious people tend not to sit or kneel, Mr Scrimger?s explanation requires us to now believe that the killer was holding Jodi in a sitting or kneeling position. In this case, he is far more likely to have become bloodstained. Further, the case against Luke claims that he stripped her, tied her hands behind her back with her trousers and mutilated the body, all after he cut her throat. Mr Scrimger had to concede that, whilst the killer would "not necessarily" have been heavily bloodstained, it was "highly likely" that he would have been.
Once again, we are faced with serious anomalies in the prosecution case. Several witnesses were identified as having been on the path at the critical time that evening. In total there were a minimum of five – John Ferris, Gordon Dickie, his father, David Dickie, Stephen Kelly, a witness who claimed to have heard a disturbance behind the wall, and the "mystery man" seen following Jodi onto the path. Yet of the four who have spoken to police, none makes any mention of having seen either Luke or
Jodi, or indeed, any of the others, on the path
. At this point, the murderer is highly likely to have been heavily bloodstained, probably scratched or having other injuries consistent with having been in a fight, almost certainly behaving in an agitated manner, and attempting to flee the scene. It is possible, once these factors are taken into consideration, that Jodi Jones was not murdered at the time all of these other people were known to be on the path, and we are required, once more, to consider the original time of Jodi leaving home as reported at 5.30pm.

So all good - this as Ms Lean, claims - is not a copy of any of her written work.

Offline sandra L

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Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #1621 on: October 04, 2019, 09:15:AM »
Quote
Several witnesses were identified as having been on the path at the critical time that evening. In total there were a minimum of five – John Ferris, Gordon Dickie, his father, David Dickie, Stephen Kelly, a witness who claimed to have heard a disturbance behind the wall, and the "mystery man" seen following Jodi onto the path.

The above is, indeed, a quote from No Smoke, from 2007. I didn't, until yesterday, have a copy of No Smoke to be able to check.

The reference to Stephen Kelly is clearly a typo, since the sentence goes on to describe him as "a witness who claimed to have heard a disturbance behind the wall."

Eight pages before this paragraph, it says, "others...described a mystery man following Jodi towards the Easthouses entrance to the path."

I apologise for any confusion - No Smoke was published more than 12 years ago, before I had access to all of the case papers and I haven't read it/referenced it for many years. The book was based largely on court transcripts, which were all I had at the time. I've contacted the publisher today to ask for the book to be withdrawn.

I would like to stress that it was not, and never has been, my intention to mislead. The two errors cited here are simply that - errors which were not picked up at the editing stage.

I accept that it is more accurate to say, "Since gaining access to the case papers, my stance has always been that no-one, ever, saw Jodi walk into the entrance to the path," - until I had access to the papers, I could not have known that to be factually correct.

No Smoke doesn't address the reconstruction because I didn't know the full facts surrounding it until I saw the case papers - at pages 98 and 108, I stated that there had been "no confirmed sightings of Jodi" that evening - we now know that there were confirmed sightings of her at 5.05pm, on the Easthouses Road, fully 15 minutes after it was claimed, at trial, that she left her home.


Offline nugnug

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Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #1622 on: October 04, 2019, 10:29:AM »
The above is, indeed, a quote from No Smoke, from 2007. I didn't, until yesterday, have a copy of No Smoke to be able to check.

The reference to Stephen Kelly is clearly a typo, since the sentence goes on to describe him as "a witness who claimed to have heard a disturbance behind the wall."

Eight pages before this paragraph, it says, "others...described a mystery man following Jodi towards the Easthouses entrance to the path."

I apologise for any confusion - No Smoke was published more than 12 years ago, before I had access to all of the case papers and I haven't read it/referenced it for many years. The book was based largely on court transcripts, which were all I had at the time. I've contacted the publisher today to ask for the book to be withdrawn.

I would like to stress that it was not, and never has been, my intention to mislead. The two errors cited here are simply that - errors which were not picked up at the editing stage.

I accept that it is more accurate to say, "Since gaining access to the case papers, my stance has always been that no-one, ever, saw Jodi walk into the entrance to the path," - until I had access to the papers, I could not have known that to be factually correct.

No Smoke doesn't address the reconstruction because I didn't know the full facts surrounding it until I saw the case papers - at pages 98 and 108, I stated that there had been "no confirmed sightings of Jodi" that evening - we now know that there were confirmed sightings of her at 5.05pm, on the Easthouses Road, fully 15 minutes after it was claimed, at trial, that she left her home.


are you ment lenord kelly.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 11:05:AM by nugnug »

Offline marty

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Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #1623 on: October 04, 2019, 10:55:AM »
So he must be guilty because steven has been published instead of leonard if i am picking this up right.
From 12 years ago
I feel such a fool ;D ;D ;D

 Hang er for treason

Offline nugnug

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Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #1624 on: October 04, 2019, 11:09:AM »
Innocents Betrayed can now be safely disregarded by anyone with a shred of common sense now that No Smoke has been utterly discredited and admittedly full of misinformation. What other lies does that book contain? We only know about this one because an unwitting forum member happened to quote it.

Unbelievable.

anyone with brain cell would of worked out it was a typo.

Offline marty

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Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #1625 on: October 04, 2019, 11:41:AM »
 I have never seen that mentioned or suggested never mind put across as fact on this or any other forum i have read about sk. Its pretty clear whats happened.

Offline sandra L

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Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #1626 on: October 04, 2019, 12:24:PM »
Liar. That's not what you were saying. You were including the unnamed "witness who claimed to have heard a disturbance behind the wall" in the list along side Stephen Kelly and the rest, evident by the comma... you didn't follow any of the other names with a description. (to the contrary - explanation of who Dickie's dad was precedes his name) I've read your latest book, you'd write something along the lines of, David Dickie, Stephen Kelly (a witness who claimed to have heard a disturbance behind the wall), and the mystery man... Impossible to typo that witnesses name as "STEPHEN KELLY", no one is that sloppy and incompetent... if so (didn't you proof read the bullshit you were putting out?), it's no wonder Luke's still rotting in Shotts.

Credibility gone and anyone can see you're lying now.

Also didn't you say a few pages ago that you have never claimed anyone followed Jodi onto the path???

You're finished Lean.

Finished, Lithium? Because you can't count?

I said 5 people and then listed 5 people - Ferris, Dickie, Dickie's dad (that's three - stay with me) - the mystery man seen following Jodi - (that's four) - and the witness who claimed to have heard a disturbance behind a wall - that's five. Agreed? His name was wrong - I accepted that - but it's still only 5 people!

I fully expected exactly this kind of reaction from you and some other posters (they'll be here soon enough, no doubt). I made a mistake 12 years ago - I've put my hands up to that, I've withdrawn the book and I've publicly apologised.

As for writing style, you can't compare my writing style today with my writing style 12 years ago, when I was just beginning to write.

Neither you, nor anyone else, will "finish me" on the basis of a simple mistake- I promise you that.

Offline ngb1066

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Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #1627 on: October 04, 2019, 03:15:PM »
Liar. That's not what you were saying. You were including the unnamed "witness who claimed to have heard a disturbance behind the wall" in the list along side Stephen Kelly and the rest, evident by the comma... you didn't follow any of the other names with a description. (to the contrary - explanation of who Dickie's dad was precedes his name) I've read your latest book, you'd write something along the lines of, David Dickie, Stephen Kelly (a witness who claimed to have heard a disturbance behind the wall), and the mystery man... Impossible to typo that witnesses name as "STEPHEN KELLY", no one is that sloppy and incompetent... if so (didn't you proof read the bullshit you were putting out?), it's no wonder Luke's still rotting in Shotts.

Credibility gone and anyone can see you're lying now.

Also didn't you say a few pages ago that you have never claimed anyone followed Jodi onto the path???

You're finished Lean.

Please moderate your tone and attack the argument, not the person you disagree with.  It is important to be respectful in addressing other members.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 06:01:PM by ngb1066 »

Offline marty

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Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #1628 on: October 04, 2019, 03:53:PM »
There's really nothing to finish you xxx xxx xxxxx.

xxxxxxxxxxx, unreliable author. See yourself out.

Lost it
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 06:05:PM by ngb1066 »

Offline David1819

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Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #1629 on: October 04, 2019, 06:08:PM »
Mate, it was read out in court that they changed their statments. What you not understanding? Youve been told time and time again why full statements cant be put online. Lithium has tried to apply for material, what happened there?
Truth is you get swatted like a fly by sandra when she addresses anything you direct at her.
At least the other guys from the area have an arguement about things because of what tbey have been told over the years, whether i believe it to be true or not. You argue the same nonsense about statements being posted and nug nug lying about knuckles being bruised. Which as you were told before were supposedly( BEFORE YOU JUMP DOWN MY NECK) in the pathologists report. Get a grip min.

From reading Sandra and Corrine's posts on TapaTalk. It becomes apparent that the dog was not a trained tracking dog and no experts testified for the defence that the dog knew how to track a body as claimed.

Corrine claims it was too expensive for them to testify. Sandra imply's the defence didn't think it was important.

Take you pick.  ::)

Offline sandra L

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Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #1630 on: October 04, 2019, 06:44:PM »
Will you apologise to Stephen Kelly?

Of course you won't. You'll continue to indirectly accuse him of a sexual attack on Jodi for the foreseeable.

I apologise unreservedly to Stephen Kelly for mistakenly printing his name instead of Leonard Kelly. When this error was made, the point the book was making was that none of the people on the path that afternoon saw Jodi or Luke and that could suggest that the time of death was incorrect. It was not, in any way, directly or indirectly, making any claim of wrongdoing by anyone who was known to be on the path.

As for indirect accusations of a sexual attack on Jodi, it was the prosecution, not me, who claimed that other deposits, identified both as sperm heads and semen on Jodi's t-shirt and bra, got there by rainwater diffusion. Since there was only one full male DNA profile found on the t-shirt, the prosecution's inference can only be that it was from that deposit that rainwater "diffused" the DNA elsewhere.

I will keep asking questions about the nature of the DNA on the t-shirt and the means by which it was explained away until there are satisfactory answers, backed by scientific reasoning. That's not accusing anyone of anything - it's saying that the explanations offered at the time are not scientifically credible and that is not strong enough "evidence" for discounting those deposits in order to allow the pursuit of Luke Mitchell to continue.

Is that clear enough?

Offline sandra L

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Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #1631 on: October 04, 2019, 06:51:PM »
There's really nothing to finish you xxx xxx xxxxx.

xxxxxxxxxxx, unreliable author. See yourself out.


Admin note: edited to remove offensive personal attacks.

I've no idea what this said originally and I'm not remotely interested. Lithium is entitled to his/her opinion that "there's really nothing to finish" - I strongly disagree. There's a mountain of information pointing away from Luke as Jodi's killer and offering far stronger lines of enquiry. I want to know the truth about how all of that was ignored, discounted or manipulated in order to conduct a modern day witch hunt against a 14 year old kid. It will be "finished" when that truth is exposed and Jodi's killer is properly identified by robust, reliable evidence. Nothing less will do.



Offline David1819

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Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #1632 on: October 04, 2019, 07:18:PM »
As for indirect accusations of a sexual attack on Jodi, it was the prosecution, not me, who claimed that other deposits, identified both as sperm heads and semen on Jodi's t-shirt and bra, got there by rainwater diffusion. Since there was only one full male DNA profile found on the t-shirt, the prosecution's inference can only be that it was from that deposit that rainwater "diffused" the DNA elsewhere.

I will keep asking questions about the nature of the DNA on the t-shirt and the means by which it was explained away until there are satisfactory answers, backed by scientific reasoning. That's not accusing anyone of anything - it's saying that the explanations offered at the time are not scientifically credible and that is not strong enough "evidence" for discounting those deposits in order to allow the pursuit of Luke Mitchell to continue.

I have already pointed out that the scarcity of sperm heads rules out direct ejaculation on the fabric.

The sperm got there from the washing machine

"A recent study by Canadian researchers demonstrated that sperm cells could be transferred from semen stained bedding to clean underwear during washing in a machine.  Identifiable male DNA profiles were obtained.  The same group also looked at the transfer of female vaginal material in the wash and the background levels of DNA and semen present on underwear from children.  It appears to be relatively common to detect low levels of DNA from family members on a child’s underwear"

The study is called "DNA transfer during laundering may yield complete genetic profiles" it was published in the Forensic Science International May, 2016 edition.

 

Offline marty

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Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #1633 on: October 04, 2019, 07:30:PM »
From reading Sandra and Corrine's posts on TapaTalk. It becomes apparent that the dog was not a trained tracking dog and no experts testified for the defence that the dog knew how to track a body as claimed.

Corrine claims it was too expensive for them to testify. Sandra imply's the defence didn't think it was important.

Take you pick.  ::)
Read sandras posts on this forum about the dog mate. Oh but wait , she makes everything up according to you so you dont believe anything she says anyway. Cant have it both ways.
I said the dog was partially trained and  the evidence was never  used in court  that it was partially trained.
The post you highlighted was about the search trio changing there statements so what have you told me here?
Your agreeing that no expert testified in court which is exactly what i said it was never used in court so cheers for that😁🤣😁

Offline marty

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Re: The murder of Jodi Jones
« Reply #1634 on: October 04, 2019, 07:39:PM »
I think luke was training the dog himself . As far as im aware there was a statement made to verify the dog was partially trained but the evidence wasnt used at court. The statement from an expert. Why would you have a certificate for a partially trained dog that you were training yourself?

Theres what i said about the dog