so wheres this forensic breakthrough then.

[Adam]

Relatives find the silencer. Realising that Sheila could not or would not have used it, they plant blood inside inside it to incriminate JB.

Relatives report silencer to the police.

Police give silencer to lab.

Lab look at silencer un-aware of the circumstances it came it into being and conclude Sheila was murdered.

Done. Nothing industrial about it.

The industrial frame would involve the relatives, police, Julie, & experts. The police would have had to create a vast industrial frame department, weeks after the massacre.

The only advantage the police would have is that Bamber was the only alive suspect due to Nevill's 'mysterious' call. Bamber having motives, opportunity and no alibi.

[Caroline]

Well unless Nevill had an injury on the left side of his abdomen in the area known as the iliac fossa then Vanezis was drunk. These are notes written as the body first appeared and before they were re-typed or edited.

It doesn't say injury, it says 'old' scar.

[Adam]

In order of mysteriousness, I would rate the phone calls as -

Nevill's call to Bamber

Bamber's call to Chelmsford police.

Nevill's call to Chelmsford police (unproven)

Bamber's 3am call to Julie.

Bamber's call to Julie at 10pm.

--------------

There is a very slim chance Bamber would ring his girlfriend at 3am. However no chance he would ring the 5th furthest away police station. No one would.

[David1819]

The industrial frame would involve the relatives, police, Julie, & experts. The police would have had to create a vast industrial frame department, weeks after the massacre.

The only advantage the police would have is that Bamber was the only alive suspect due to Nevill's 'mysterious' call. Bamber having motives, opportunity and no alibi.

I don't believe in the industrial frame. If an industrial frame took place, we would find other biological tissues inside the silencer such as skin, bone and brains from the twins. Fake muzzle imprints put on the photos ect ect.

PS: Why are you still misquoting the the judge on the 'mysterious' call when you know he never said such a thing?

[Adam]

I don't believe in the industrial frame. If an industrial frame took place, we would find other biological tissues inside the silencer such as skin, bone and brains from the twins. Fake muzzle imprints put on the photos ect ect.

PS: Why are you still misquoting the the judge on the 'mysterious' call when you know he never said such a thing?

Going by Wilkes's book. The judges summing up. The judge generously used the word 'mysterious'.

The shots into the twins would not cause back splatter of skin, bone & brain. It was a rifle for shooting rabbits.

[David1819]

Going by Wilkes's book. The judges summing up. The judge generously used the word 'mysterious'.

Yet there is no mention of this in the Judges summing up. Haven't you learnt your lesson on going by books after the Paul Harrison fiasco?

The shots into the twins would not cause back splatter of skin, bone & brain. It was a rifle for shooting rabbits.

Three contact wounds to Nicholas Caffell's head. Back splatter is most commonly associated with shots to the head as there is nowhere for the gas to escape. So if you insist the gun is powerful enough to bring Sheila's blood back to eight baffles plates in the silencer. Where is all the other stuff?

Below is a silencer that has skin inside with powder residues in the skin. So yes it does happen.

[lookout]

It doesn't say injury, it says 'old' scar.

Strange for an " old scar " to have a dressing on.

[Adam]

Yet there is no mention of this in the Judges summing up. Haven't you learnt your lesson on going by books after the Paul Harrison fiasco?

Three contact wounds to Nicholas Caffell's head. Back splatter is most commonly associated with shots to the head as there is nowhere for the gas to escape. So if you insist the gun is powerful enough to bring Sheila's blood back to eight baffles plates in the silencer. Where is all the other stuff?

Below is a silencer that has skin inside with powder residues in the skin. So yes it does happen.

Back splatter is most likely from Sheila's two neck contact shots. That is wear there are veins & a high blood flow.

No one has ever suggested bits of brain, skin & bone should be in the silencer. Besides which there was none in the rifle end.

[Steve_uk]

Yet there is no mention of this in the Judges summing up. Haven't you learnt your lesson on going by books after the Paul Harrison fiasco?

Three contact wounds to Nicholas Caffell's head. Back splatter is most commonly associated with shots to the head as there is nowhere for the gas to escape. So if you insist the gun is powerful enough to bring Sheila's blood back to eight baffles plates in the silencer. Where is all the other stuff?

Below is a silencer that has skin inside with powder residues in the skin. So yes it does happen.

I think he was testing the rifle initially (remember it was stiff and his greatest fear was that it would jam). So one bullet each to Daniel and Nicholas, then returning when all was done, by which time the blood flow had stopped, so no backspatter caused by the head wound to Nicholas.

[Caroline]

Strange for an " old scar " to have a dressing on.

It didn't have a dressing on it - he's NOT talking about Sheila, he's talking about Neville!

[Jane]

It didn't have a dressing on it - he's NOT talking about Sheila, he's talking about Neville!

Which, if I've deciphered correctly, he refers to as a "graze"................could be interpreted as "scratch"?

[Caroline]

Which, if I've deciphered correctly, he refers to as a "graze"................could be interpreted as "scratch"?

He refers to the mark on Sheila as a graze but the one that Lookout is referring to isn't a graze, it's an old scar and is from Neville's autopsy report. not Sheila's.

[David1819]

Back splatter is most likely from Sheila's two neck contact shots. That is wear there are veins & a high blood flow.

Then how do you explain the muzzle imprints showing no silencer was against the skin?

No one has ever suggested bits of brain, skin & bone should be in the silencer. Besides which there was none in the rifle end.

"The biological contents of backspatter include brain tissue, bone fragments, skin tissue, adipose tissues and blood." source - Understanding Backspatter due to Skull Fracture from a Ballistic Projectile

[Jane]

He refers to the mark on Sheila as a graze but the one that Lookout is referring to isn't a graze, it's an old scar and is from Neville's autopsy report. not Sheila's.

Yes, I gathered Lookout was referring to the wrong one when I read it myself and picked up on the "old scar".

[Adam]

Then how do you explain the muzzle imprints showing no silencer was against the skin?


"The biological contents of backspatter include brain tissue, bone fragments, skin tissue, adipose tissues and blood." source - Understanding Backspatter due to Skull Fracture from a Ballistic Projectile

Ok, you believe the rifle nozzle would have brain, skin, tissue & Sheila's blood. It didn't.

However the silencer had Sheila's blood after neck contact shots.