so wheres this forensic breakthrough then.

[David1819]

You have already managed to prove that it could not have been Bamber who put the bible on the stain
because at that stage the blood would have been still wet.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4616.msg191520.html#msg191520
"But think about this ..... The COA state categorically that the blood must have been 'wet' when the bible was closed and opened later by the 'killer' before being placed on the floor over the stain next to Sheila. So, IF it was placed there by Jeremy just after shooting Sheila the pool of blood would have to be wet at the time it was placed there  - so why is there no stain on the page that would have been face down on top of the blood? The stain MUST have been dry when the bible was placed there and such could not have been placed there by Jeremy Bamber. The COA were WRONG and as such, this point should still be valid in future submissions!!"

It also begs the question of who placed the bible on top of the blood stain (and why) - because it wasn't Jeremy and it wasn't Jeremy because it was placed there when the stain was dry. It proves that the scene was staged, but more importantly, that it was staged by someone OTHER  than Jeremy Bamber!!

You know that the police must have put it there when the blood was dry.

Well done Harry. It is no secret that Caroline once had a factually coherent view on this case. And all that changed when she got duped by Paul Harrison.

Paul Harrison 19/10/2014

"Mr Harrison said his book will "finally bring closure" and prove Bamber's guilt beyond doubt when it is published ahead of the 30th anniversary of the slayings next August."

Paul Harrison is a respected author, he isn't going to risk damaging his reputation by lying.

How much longer will the facade go on? Jane now has to put up with advocating the wrong side of the case until Caroline can swallow her pride. Seems this may go on for another five years.

[Caroline]

Well done Harry. It is no secret that Caroline once had a factually coherent view on this case. And all that changed when she got duped by Paul Harrison.

Paul Harrison 19/10/2014

"Mr Harrison said his book will "finally bring closure" and prove Bamber's guilt beyond doubt when it is published ahead of the 30th anniversary of the slayings next August."

How much longer will the facade go on? Jane now has to put up with advocating the wrong side of the case until Caroline can swallow her pride. Seems this may go on for another five years.

I don't know how much longer you will go one David but once again, you posting about people who you have on ignore so I am reporting the post. Not only don't you have any concept of the truth, you now don't seem to understand the concept of ignore. The only person here banging on about PH is you - you moron!

[Caroline]

I haven't proved anything of the sort, no one knows how long Bamber was there staging the scene but more to the point, no one knows how big the stain is - I'll ponder you a question though, do you think it is possible to work out the EXACT page that the bible was open as is from the CS pictures?

You didn't answer my question Harry.

[Harry]

I haven't proved anything of the sort, no one knows how long Bamber was there staging the scene but more to the point, no one knows how big the stain is - I'll ponder you a question though, do you think it is possible to work out the EXACT page that the bible was open as is from the CS pictures?

You didn't answer my question Harry.

I don't see the point of the question. Why do you need to tell the exact page the bible is open at on the floor to know it's not the same page as the one where the alleged palm print is found?



If that page had also had a stain on it from the stain on the carpet it would have been used as evidence against Jeremy.

Similarly, you don't need to know how big the stain is to tell that the bible is covering part of it at (A)

[lookout]

When, at long last, it will be now proven that Nevill rang EP after having rang JB first, it will no longer be a fact that bodies etc. were staged by JB, but by EP themselves.


In order for photo's to have been taken as we see them, a large square of carpet that had been covering the existing one had to have been removed by EP to save treading on a blood-drenched carpet which can be seen folded in one of the photo's. Therefore, to remove this carpet it had been up to EP to lift the bodies free from the carpet thus arranging them to their original positions in death.
It's not always possible to rearrange something such as the crime scene which was, into an exact position of how/where they perished as some things get forgotten----such as when the rifle was at the side of Sheila so was swiftly placed on top of her body for the authenticity of having shot herself.

The Bible would have been another forgotten object and just " dropped " at the side of the body landing randomly at no particular page/passage within the Bible.

The drips of blood seen on the light carpet could either have happened as the top carpet was being moved or from Sheila as she was lifted during its removal.

The more I've thought about this crime the far more I've known of the horrendous injustice that Jeremy has been served and I would hope that after all these years that the public recognises EP's deceit in sending an innocent man to prison.
 

[Harry]

There is another possibility which deserves consideration. It is consistent with Mike Tesko's opinion that Sheila was shot a second time at some time later than 09:00am. 

If the stain on the carpet which the bible is partly covering was made by Sheila's blood it would, on this view, have been still wet when the police for some reason put the bible on it.

The campaign team apparently have proof that the photographs showing Sheila with the rifle on her were taken at around 10:20. If you relate this to the opinion given by professors Meloni and Cavalli that Sheila could not have been dead for more than than two hours when the well known police photograph showing wet blood was taken, the implication is that she could not have died at any time earlier than 08:20.



You have to consider the possibility that there WAS a stain on the page of the bible resting on the stain on the carpet, if it is Sheila's blood.  That would explain why the defence were not allowed to have it examined.

It  might be suggested that the police could have used such a stain, caused by themselves, to frame Bamber, but Bamber was not a suspect at that stage.

If the police had, weeks later, tried to use such a stain as evidence against Bamber that would beg the question as to why they didn't figure out he was the culprit straight off. So, if there was a stain at the page in question, the chance to use it as false evidence had already passed.

I admit I favour the view that the stain on the carpet was from June's blood and that it was dry.

[lookout]

I've thought too that it was June's blood.
 Even June's position in the bedroom had been tampered with as a brush of blood against the door indicates that she'd been propped up against it but when photographs were shown she was lying splayed out on her back on the floor. June would not have got herself in that final position after she'd been propped up against the door after having died that way, gravity would have made her slump sideways.

As Andrew Hunter had said, " dead bodies don't move ".

[Caroline]

I don't see the point of the question. Why do you need to tell the exact page the bible is open at on the floor to know it's not the same page as the one where the alleged palm print is found?



If that page had also had a stain on it from the stain on the carpet it would have been used as evidence against Jeremy.

Similarly, you don't need to know how big the stain is to tell that the bible is covering part of it at (A)

OK, I will ask again, are there any pictures that reveal the page at which the bible is open while placed face down on the floor? Also as previously stated, we have no idea how long Bamber was at WHF staging the scene - blood dries fairly quickly - I doubt the stain was completely wet when the bible was placed there.

The notion that the police framed Jeremy from day one is a non-starter.

[Caroline]

There is another possibility which deserves consideration. It is consistent with Mike Tesko's opinion that Sheila was shot a second time at some time later than 09:00am. 

If the stain on the carpet which the bible is partly covering was made by Sheila's blood it would, on this view, have been still wet when the police for some reason put the bible on it.

The campaign team apparently have proof that the photographs showing Sheila with the rifle on her were taken at around 10:20. If you relate this to the opinion given by professors Meloni and Cavalli that Sheila could not have been dead for more than than two hours when the well known police photograph showing wet blood was taken, the implication is that she could not have died at any time earlier than 08:20.



You have to consider the possibility that there WAS a stain on the page of the bible resting on the stain on the carpet, if it is Sheila's blood.  That would explain why the defence were not allowed to have it examined.

It  might be suggested that the police could have used such a stain, caused by themselves, to frame Bamber, but Bamber was not a suspect at that stage.

If the police had, weeks later, tried to use such a stain as evidence against Bamber that would beg the question as to why they didn't figure out he was the culprit straight off. So, if there was a stain at the page in question, the chance to use it as false evidence had already passed.

I admit I favour the view that the stain on the carpet was from June's blood and that it was dry.

That picture is a fraud and is a version of the picture below. I would love to know how Shiela could still be breathing with a throat full of blood without any signs of spluttering around her mouth? The blood is dry and cracked, her face is discoloured and this is the reason why the photo you posted is only of her neck. Had they included her face, it would have been obvious that it has been tampered with.

[Caroline]

I've thought too that it was June's blood.
 Even June's position in the bedroom had been tampered with as a brush of blood against the door indicates that she'd been propped up against it but when photographs were shown she was lying splayed out on her back on the floor. June would not have got herself in that final position after she'd been propped up against the door after having died that way, gravity would have made her slump sideways.

As Andrew Hunter had said, " dead bodies don't move ".

She has slumped sideways

[Adam]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,887.msg26403.html#msg26403

This thread in the archives section asks how could the bible fall on top of Sheila's arm after she had been shot & killed?'.

Mike says the police shot Sheila but did not want to admit to this. So said Sheila shot herself. The police changed direction shortly afterwards & the industrial frame department was created to frame Bamber.

Seems the police wanted to make religion a reason for Sheila committing the massacre. After they luckily noticed June's bible.

[lookout]

She has slumped sideways

And adjusted herself to being flat on the floor while dead ?

[lookout]

She's been made to look as you describe but a deceased person doesn't go from slumped to flat out without having been moved. EP had obviously staged her position to coincide with the blood brushed against the door but found that a dead person can't be manipulated in the same way a living person can be.
EP would have had to have moved her to lift up the blood-sodden carpet from underneath.

[lookout]

The said carpet is in a pic folded/rolled up and was one of the items which was burned outside.

[Caroline]

She's been made to look as you describe but a deceased person doesn't go from slumped to flat out without having been moved. EP had obviously staged her position to coincide with the blood brushed against the door but found that a dead person can't be manipulated in the same way a living person can be.
EP would have had to have moved her to lift up the blood-sodden carpet from underneath.

Of course they can, they have no muscle power to keep them upright. A dead body is a dead weight. There was no reason for the officers to move her at all.