so wheres this forensic breakthrough then.

[Adam]

Surely June's bible next to Sheila was not a plant.

Sheila had a read prior to shooting herself twice.

[Caroline]

Surely June's bible next to Sheila was not a plant.

Sheila had a read prior to shooting herself twice.

Adam 

[David1819]

In that case there would be another stained page caused by the stain on the carpet after Bamber put it there. It's now recognised that the the bible is open at a different page in photographs of it on the carpet to the page where the alleged palm print was found.



If the police had found two different places where the bible has stained pages, they would have thought that they had Bamber bang to rights, since Sheila could not have been opening and closing the bible after she was dead. Instead they have prevented the bible from being examined and the issues clarified.

You seem to be saying that the bible has been opened at three different places in the relevant period.

1 The place where the alleged palm print is seen. Bamber in your scenario  pressed Sheila's blood stained palm on it after she was dead.

2 The place where it was open when Bamber allegedly put it on the stain on the carpet after closing it and opening it at a different page.

3 The place it was open at when the police put it down again after closing it and opening it again.

The main objection is that there would be a stain from the carpet where (2) is concerned. There just can't have been, or the prosecution would have used it as proof of guilt.

Indeed the prosecution would have used it. It was examined yet never even appeared as a trial exhibit.

Ed Lawson did make enquires about the bible before the trial but got nowhere. I will read over his appeal hearing testimony again later.

[Harry]

Not if the stain on the carpet was semi dry however, according to Bamber himself, there are other stains on the bible so ...... Also, the pictures you have posted show that the page at which the bible was open on the carpet, cannot be the one named in the evidence (or the one with the palm stain) because of the page distribution. The page with the palm stain, is almost right in the center of bible - but from the crime scene picture the open page is around two thirds towards the end. From your own words, Sheila can't have been opening and closing the bible ...... but someone did.

You have already managed to prove that it could not have been Bamber who put the bible on the stain
because at that stage the blood would have been still wet.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4616.msg191520.html#msg191520
"But think about this ..... The COA state categorically that the blood must have been 'wet' when the bible was closed and opened later by the 'killer' before being placed on the floor over the stain next to Sheila. So, IF it was placed there by Jeremy just after shooting Sheila the pool of blood would have to be wet at the time it was placed there  - so why is there no stain on the page that would have been face down on top of the blood? The stain MUST have been dry when the bible was placed there and such could not have been placed there by Jeremy Bamber. The COA were WRONG and as such, this point should still be valid in future submissions!!"

It also begs the question of who placed the bible on top of the blood stain (and why) - because it wasn't Jeremy and it wasn't Jeremy because it was placed there when the stain was dry. It proves that the scene was staged, but more importantly, that it was staged by someone OTHER  than Jeremy Bamber!!

You know that the police must have put it there when the blood was dry.

[Caroline]

You have already managed to prove that it could not have been Bamber who put the bible on the stain
because at that stage the blood would have been still wet.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4616.msg191520.html#msg191520
"But think about this ..... The COA state categorically that the blood must have been 'wet' when the bible was closed and opened later by the 'killer' before being placed on the floor over the stain next to Sheila. So, IF it was placed there by Jeremy just after shooting Sheila the pool of blood would have to be wet at the time it was placed there  - so why is there no stain on the page that would have been face down on top of the blood? The stain MUST have been dry when the bible was placed there and such could not have been placed there by Jeremy Bamber. The COA were WRONG and as such, this point should still be valid in future submissions!!"

It also begs the question of who placed the bible on top of the blood stain (and why) - because it wasn't Jeremy and it wasn't Jeremy because it was placed there when the stain was dry. It proves that the scene was staged, but more importantly, that it was staged by someone OTHER  than Jeremy Bamber!!

You know that the police must have put it there when the blood was dry.

I haven't proved anything of the sort, no one knows how long Bamber was there staging the scene but more to the point, no one knows how big the stain is - I'll ponder you a question though, do you think it is possible to work out the EXACT page that the bible was open as is from the CS pictures?

[Adam]

Sheila must have forgotten to bring her own bible to WHF.

[lookout]

Blood is sticky and if pages had been pressed together and left for a time there'd have been difficulty opening them without tearing after the blood had dried. I wonder how many of those pages were stuck ! It's just coincidence that the Bible had been left open on that specific page and nothing indicates that it had been relevant reading to what had happened that night. It was all my eye.

[Caroline]

Blood is sticky and if pages had been pressed together and left for a time there'd have been difficulty opening them without tearing after the blood had dried. I wonder how many of those pages were stuck ! It's just coincidence that the Bible had been left open on that specific page and nothing indicates that it had been relevant reading to what had happened that night. It was all my eye.

It wasn't/couldn't have been laid open on that page Lookout because the distribution of the pages doesn't match!

Also, blood dries quickly and the blood was still a little tacky because there is a slight mirror image on the opposite page., there wouldn't be if the bible had been laid on the floor on that page!

[Caroline]

Sheila must have forgotten to bring her own bible to WHF.

Well, you know how it is in the haste of packing 

[Adam]

Well, you know how it is in the haste of packing 

Maybe she did bring her bible, but June's bible was nearer.

A pity for Jeremy. He could have said he didn't know what Sheila had brought with her to WHF. 

[lookout]

It wasn't/couldn't have been laid open on that page Lookout because the distribution of the pages doesn't match!

Also, blood dries quickly and the blood was still a little tacky because there is a slight mirror image on the opposite page., there wouldn't be if the bible had been laid on the floor on that page!

Yes I understand about the placement of the Bible and its faint image on the opposite page but why was there ever reference made to a particular passage in the Bible allegedly relevant in the way Sheila led her life then died when the book itself was just placed randomly on it's pages ? Because there happened to have been blood on that particular part/page doesn't mean to say that she was reading it.

What I'm saying is that somewhere among the accusations towards JB there was something that stated that he knew on what page to leave the Bible open at.
Would that have been the time when the Bible was found on her chest, or on the floor ? If found on her chest I'd assume it would have been closed, which could well have been the time when the image could have been impressed on the opposite side.

It's always been a mystery and will remain so until such time that the case can again be scrutinised.

[lookout]

Sheila must have forgotten to bring her own bible to WHF.

There were 5 Bibles kept at WHF so no need to have brought an extra one. The same as there was more than one silencer in the place.

[Adam]

There were 5 Bibles kept at WHF so no need to have brought an extra one. The same as there was more than one silencer in the place.

Five? Maybe June was hopeing Jeremy would take one home to read, then join her at bible classes.

So Sheila knew where to find one to read. After killing 4 people and prior to shooting herself twice.

[lookout]

Five? Maybe June was hopeing Jeremy would take one home to read, then join her at bible classes.

So Sheila knew where to find one to read. After killing 4 people and prior to shooting herself twice.

Three must have been kept in the bedroom. I know one was read to the children before bed.

[David1819]

Sheila must have forgotten to bring her own bible to WHF.

Do you still believe the house was too big for Sheila to have found the bible?