Significance of two double marked bullet cases, found in kitchen?

[mike tesko]

The presence of two double magazine marked bullet cases found in the kitchen is capable of undermining a crucial part of the prosecutions case - Ralph Bamber, must have been / was shot six times in kitchen, or in other words, he was shot twice in the kitchen non fatally (linked to double marked bullet cases), and shot a further four times fatally, there...

[mike tesko]

 At least four bullet cases, were moved or displaced, from kitchen to bedroom, to accommodate prosecutions case against Jeremy...

[simong]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,225.75.html

On page 6 of this thread, there are maps of locations of the shell casings in each of the rooms found.

Mike on the other thread 'Mike Teskowski claims that the police fired bullets into the dead bodies' DRH 39 is down as both single and double marked. How and why is that?

When you say the casings were moved or displaced to accommodate the prosecutions case against Jeremy. I imagine that the locations of shell casings would be mapped out as soon as possible after the event. Do you mean that the locations of the shell casings were altered on the drawings once the police began to suspect JB?

Lastly, It seems the world and his wife traped through WHF that morning, How seriously do we take the shell case locations? They could have been kicked, moved through being trodden on and so forth, no?

[mike tesko]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,225.75.html

On page 6 of this thread, there are maps of locations of the shell casings in each of the rooms found.

Mike on the other thread 'Mike Teskowski claims that the police fired bullets into the dead bodies' DRH 39 is down as both single and double marked. How and why is that?

When you say the casings were moved or displaced to accommodate the prosecutions case against Jeremy. I imagine that the locations of shell casings would be mapped out as soon as possible after the event. Do you mean that the locations of the shell casings were altered on the drawings once the police began to suspect JB?

Lastly, It seems the world and his wife traped through WHF that morning, How seriously do we take the shell case locations? They could have been kicked, moved through being trodden on and so forth, no?

... First of all, because police in this case covered up the true circumstances surrounding how Shiela Caffell came to die inside WHF, and they tampered with the crime scene ammumition, it should not be discounted so readily, that the police did, or could have fired shots during the incident - for example, there exists a police report entitled, 'Officers report re shooting incident in kitchen'. So, before the suggestion that police may have fired bullets is shelved completely, ask yourselves what such a report contains? When you realize that Essex police are refusing to disclose the content of that report, claiming it can be withheld under Pii rules, you will suddenly start to realize that Essex police have got something to hide relating to a shooting incident in the kitchen - it is up to each individual who reads this, to make up thier own minds as to whether the police fired shots or not? The next thing linked to this business, are the five 1/2 inch diameter bullet entry wounds, found on the bodies of Ralph and June, which in my view, could not have been made by .22 bullets, fired from the .22 Bamber rifle - police are known to have weapons which are capable of inflicting 1/2 inch entry wounds...

[simong]

Mike i appreciate that and the fact that we could get a random 10 members on this forum who could have conducted a better investigation than EP. 

Any thoughts on the questions that i asked though.

[mike tesko]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,225.75.html

On page 6 of this thread, there are maps of locations of the shell casings in each of the rooms found.

Mike on the other thread 'Mike Teskowski claims that the police fired bullets into the dead bodies' DRH 39 is down as both single and double marked. How and why is that?

When you say the casings were moved or displaced to accommodate the prosecutions case against Jeremy. I imagine that the locations of shell casings would be mapped out as soon as possible after the event. Do you mean that the locations of the shell casings were altered on the drawings once the police began to suspect JB?

Lastly, It seems the world and his wife traped through WHF that morning, How seriously do we take the shell case locations? They could have been kicked, moved through being trodden on and so forth, no?

--------

I will try to deal with your points one at a time:-

(1) DRH/39 was two bullet cases, one of which was double marked, the other single marked...

(2) The maps showing how the bullet cases and loose bullets were distributed around the scene and in various rooms at the farmhouse, was created after Jeremy fell into the frame, it was not made up on the morning of the shootings...

(3) PC David Bird (SOC) testified during the trial that he took photographs of all the crime scene ammunition in situ, but these photographs have never yet been disclosed and are being withheld under pii rules. Why have these pictures not been disclosed, and would the position and location of the bullet cases shown in those pictures match and correspond with the position of the bullets cases shown in the diagrams?

I think not...

(4) If Ralph Bamber was shot four times fatally in the kitchen, he could not have been killed by the two bullets attached to the two double marked bullet cases found in the kitchen, because those two double marked bullet cases would have been part of the first loaded ammunition magazine, and could not have been fired until at least five of the other bullets had been discharged from the gun, possibly more, if the shooter shot the child victims once each, and June Bamber in the bedroom doorway, beforehand? There should have been at least six bullet cases found in the kitchen linked or associated with the shootings of Ralph Downstairs, possibly two more, making it 8 bullet cases in total - four of these have been displaced to other locations inside the house, to give the impression that Ralph was shot four times non fatally in the bedroom, when I do not think this could be, or was true...

We know that PI "Bob" Miller, drafted up instruction for DC Hammersley to re-asign the original four exhibits, marked DRH/1, DRH/2, DRH/3 and DRH/4 requesting him to give these different reference numbers, so that it created four vacant exhibit slots into which was then assigned four bullet cases, bearing the marks, DRH/1, DRH/2, DRH/3 and DRH/4...

Introduction of these four bullet cases into the bedroom scenario, helped to paint an inaccurate picture that Ralph Bamber was shot four times non fatally in the bedroom, when it becomes clear that he could not have been. For example, the presence of the two double marked bullet cases in the kitchen, mean that Ralph must have been shot at least twice in the Kitchen by two bullets from the first load of the ammunition magazine...

Hope this clarifies the position regarding your inquiries...

[mike tesko]

Nobody (other than me and Jeremy and his supporters) is suggesting that anyone other than Ralph Bamber was shot in the kitchen, so those two double marked bullet cases must relate to him having been shot in the kitchen, and that this in all probability occurred after June had already been shot in the bedroom, and the children had already been killed in their beds. I believe that the presence of those two double marked bullet cases found in the kitchen, support the contention that Ralph Bamber did make the call to Jeremy by use of the kitchen phone, and that he may have been shot immediately afterwards, or whilst in the process of making that call...

Although Ralph did not have time to convey to Jeremy, whether or not anyone had been shot by that stage, I think it is highly likely that Ralph knew that Sheila had shot June and the children, and this was why he was downstairs in the kitchen, using the only workable phone in the farmhouse that was plugged in due to a recent lightening strike. I can picture the scene now in my minds eye, Ralph hurrying downstairs into the kitchen to use the phone to alert Jeremy to the facts about what had taken place, and either just before, or just after he made the call to Jeremy, it is highly conceivable that Sheila shot him at least once, or twice with the last of the two bullets, and that this was why bloodied fingermarks were found on the edge of the kitchen worktop - the bloodied fingermarks of Ralph Bamber, who bled from at least one non fatal wound inflicted upon him by the discharge of the last two bullets before the gun was empty and needed to be reloaded...

At this point, there would have been an opportunity for some sort of a struggle to ensue between Ralph and Sheila, since there would need to have been some delay before the additional bullets could be loaded into the guns ammunition magazine...

[shonapugs]

Surely, Mike, if June and the children had already been shot, Ralph would call for an ambulance and the police? What would be the point of calling Jeremy? How could he help once the shootings had begun?

[chochokeira]

Mike i appreciate that and the fact that we could get a random 10 members on this forum who could have conducted a better investigation than EP. 

Any thoughts on the questions that i asked though.

+ 1 simong

[mike tesko]

Surely, Mike, if June and the children had already been shot, Ralph would call for an ambulance and the police? What would be the point of calling Jeremy? How could he help once the shootings had begun?

... But you are forgeting that there are grounds for believing that Ralph did actually call the police, before he made the short call to Jeremy (discussed elsewhere)...

[Jerry]

Surely, Mike, if June and the children had already been shot, Ralph would call for an ambulance and the police? What would be the point of calling Jeremy? How could he help once the shootings had begun?

... But you are forgeting that there are grounds for believing that Ralph did actually call the police, before he made the short call to Jeremy (discussed elsewhere)...

I find it hard to believe that Nevill would have had time to phone the police and Jeremy too if someone was running amok in his home with a rifle.

It is not recorded that Nevill ever phoned the police, only Jeremy's call to police is recorded reporting what his father allegedly said to him in a call some time earlier.

[chochokeira]

Surely, Mike, if June and the children had already been shot, Ralph would call for an ambulance and the police? What would be the point of calling Jeremy? How could he help once the shootings had begun?

... But you are forgeting that there are grounds for believing that Ralph did actually call the police, before he made the short call to Jeremy (discussed elsewhere)...

I find it hard to believe that Nevill would have had time to phone the police and Jeremy too if someone was running amok in his home with a rifle.

It is not recorded that Nevill ever phoned the police, only Jeremy's call to police is recorded reporting what his father allegedly said to him in a call some time earlier.

As Mike and Jeremy's website have stated, Jerry, that wasn't the case.

You are looking at rolling logs remember, which were added to as events occurred. The following is part of Jeremy Bamber's website statement on this issue:


"The message that confuses people is “message passed to CD by son of Mr Bamber after the phone went dead, Mr Bamber has a collection of shotguns and .410’s”

By referring to Jeremy Bamber’s call message report timed at 03.36 there was no word of him mentioning which firearms were at White House Farm in that call. By referring to PC Myall’s 8th August 85 Statement he says that on arrival at the farm he asked Jeremy to tell him which guns were in the house. It was only at this point that headquarters were contacted by radio to say that the son had given a list of firearms and the circumstance of the phone call he received, which the officer in the radio car CA07 relayed to HQ. This was logged as above." 

[shonapugs]

If Ralph called Jeremy once June and the boys had been shot, instead of calling the police (still no actual record of that) he would have effectively been inviting Jeremy to his own injury or death.

[mike tesko]

Surely, Mike, if June and the children had already been shot, Ralph would call for an ambulance and the police? What would be the point of calling Jeremy? How could he help once the shootings had begun?

... But you are forgeting that there are grounds for believing that Ralph did actually call the police, before he made the short call to Jeremy (discussed elsewhere)...

I find it hard to believe that Nevill would have had time to phone the police and Jeremy too if someone was running amok in his home with a rifle.

It is not recorded that Nevill ever phoned the police, only Jeremy's call to police is recorded reporting what his father allegedly said to him in a call some time earlier.

... Well, as you know - there is fresh information available which suggests that Ralph may have, or did make a separate call to the police. Yot only have to look at, why patrol car, CA07, was dispatched to the scene, before Jeremy contacted the police himself, to realize that the police were responding to a call for help, before police were even speaking to Jeremy. In addition to this, the person who called the police before Jeremy did, about this matter, identified the shooter, as 'his daughter', adding that 'daughter has got one of my gtns', and as you well know, Shiela was Ralphs daughter, and the weapon which is supposed to have fired all the bullets, was owned, amd it belonged to non other, than Ralph Bamber...

[chochokeira]

If Ralph called Jeremy once June and the boys had been shot, instead of calling the police (still no actual record of that) he would have effectively been inviting Jeremy to his own injury or death.

That's a big 'if' for me, Shona.