JAMES BELL - there are some who believe that he was responsible for whf tragedy

[Adam]

If it was James Bell, Sheila's biological mother, or a hit man team, as Mike suggested, it will be a 'first ever' situation.

An innocent man (Jeremy) being framed. But not framed by the killer/s.  Framed by people who didn't commit the crime (relatives, Julie). Assisted by the police/experts changing stance to create an industrial frame.

If AP or AE committed the massacre, as suggested by Mike/Sherlock, this is more straight forward. The murderers were trying to frame another person - Jeremy. Again assisted by the police/experts changing stance.

[Adam]

The above is also true if Sheila was the killer.

People who did not committ the massacre (relatives/Julie) successfully helped frame another person who also did not commit the massacre - Jeremy.

Has anyone got any other examples of this happening. Friends, relatives, lovers etc not committing a crime, but then successfully contributing to framing another person who also did not commit the crime ?

The Bamber case could be the only one.
 

[David1819]

The above is also true if Sheila was the killer.

People who did not committ the massacre (relatives/Julie) successfully helped frame another person who also did not commit the massacre - Jeremy.

Has anyone got any other examples of this happening. Friends, relatives, lovers etc not committing a crime, but then successfully contributing to framing another person who also did not commit the crime ?

The Bamber case could be the only one.

David Bain

"… at some point during the first few weeks, um, [the aunts and uncles]  were convinced by the Police that I was the killer and they all turned  against me and the – from then on I was interrogated not only by the,  um, by my lawyer by the, um, ah, psychiatrists and experts that came to  view me but also by my family who would come in and ask extremely  leading and open and hurtful questions and then apparently go and  relate it straight back, straight to Police officer after walking out of the  prison and seeing me so totally, you know, misusing their relationship  with me to the point where I actually – you know, it became so hurtful I  stopped actually allowing them to see me."

[Adam]

David Bain

"… at some point during the first few weeks, um, [the aunts and uncles]  were convinced by the Police that I was the killer and they all turned  against me and the – from then on I was interrogated not only by the,  um, by my lawyer by the, um, ah, psychiatrists and experts that came to  view me but also by my family who would come in and ask extremely  leading and open and hurtful questions and then apparently go and  relate it straight back, straight to Police officer after walking out of the  prison and seeing me so totally, you know, misusing their relationship  with me to the point where I actually – you know, it became so hurtful I  stopped actually allowing them to see me."

This seems different in that the police convinced the family, who then openly confronted Bain. The family also did not hand in evidence which showed Bain was the killer.

Bamber also had a person not involved in the massacre, fatally compile a long WS & testify against him - Julie.

[Steve_uk]

David Bain

"… at some point during the first few weeks, um, [the aunts and uncles]  were convinced by the Police that I was the killer and they all turned  against me and the – from then on I was interrogated not only by the,  um, by my lawyer by the, um, ah, psychiatrists and experts that came to  view me but also by my family who would come in and ask extremely  leading and open and hurtful questions and then apparently go and  relate it straight back, straight to Police officer after walking out of the  prison and seeing me so totally, you know, misusing their relationship  with me to the point where I actually – you know, it became so hurtful I  stopped actually allowing them to see me."

I do wonder how murderers can live with themselves: David Bain, Jeremy Bamber, David McGreavy. I makes me think that there must be some defect in the brain where they can switch off what they did, not feel remorse in the first place or otherwise detach, which also leads me to the conclusion that many of them have some form of insanity which has not been clinically diagnosed, which would be the only reason not to subject them to the death penalty if they did not know at the time what they were doing was wrong. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/93012800/David-Bains-new-life-under-new-name

[Caroline]

I do wonder how murderers can live with themselves: David Bain, Jeremy Bamber, David McGreavy. I makes me think that there must be some defect in the brain where they can switch off what they did, not feel remorse in the first place or otherwise detach, which also leads me to the conclusion that many of them have some form of insanity which has not been clinically diagnosed, which would be the only reason not to subject them to the death penalty if they did not know at the time what they were doing was wrong. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/93012800/David-Bains-new-life-under-new-name

No Switch Steve - they just don't have the same feelings of guilt that the rest of us have. They're disordered, but not insane.

[Steve_uk]

No Switch Steve - they just don't have the same feelings of guilt that the rest of us have. They're disordered, but not insane.

I wonder whether David Bain was trancing during the murders, a trait he learned from his mother Margaret. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2369406/David-Bains-horrible-premonition

[mike tesko]

AP. That is a new suggestion Mike.

Again that would explain the fight Nevill had with another male in the kitchen.

It would also explain Jeremy getting a call from a male at 3am. Jeremy not able to determine it was not Nevill's voice within the 3 second call.

More importantly, I am concerned with the alleged removal of Anthony Pargeters .22 bolt action rifle and Parker Hale silencer from the scene of this tragedy, a week before the shootings!

Jeremy Bamber says the Pargeter rifle, and it's Parker Hale silencer was present at the scene when the tragedy unfolded, he even listed 'it' as being present there, by listing it as part of his inventory of weapons that were present inside the farmhouse, which he gave to Police about three hours before the firearm officers entered the premises!

If the Pargeter rifle / silencer wasn't there, when police stormed the farmhouse, why didn't it alert police as to why the rifle and silencer in question, was absent or missing?

[mike tesko]

Who should we believe?

[mike tesko]

Who should we believe?

Bamber, or Anthony Pargeter?

[mike tesko]

Please...

Why would Jeremy Bamber claim that Anthony Pargeters .22 bolt action rifle and his Parker Hale silencer were present at the scene, if they weren't?

It doesn't make any sort of sense, to allege that / this, if it weren't true...

[mike tesko]

Please...

Why would Jeremy Bamber claim that Anthony Pargeters .22 bolt action rifle and his Parker Hale silencer were present at the scene, if they weren't?

It doesn't make any sort of sense, to allege that / this, if it weren't true...

Ballistics would confirm one way or another, that one or more bullets were fired from the Pargeter rifle as opposed to the Bamber rifle!

[mike tesko]

Use of the Pargeter rifle in these shootings - has far reaching consequences!

Since, by factoring in the usage of the Pargeter rifle in the shootings, there may not necessarily have been any requirement to reload the Bamber owned rifle with additional bullets!

[mike tesko]

Use of the Pargeter rifle in these shootings - has far reaching consequences!

Since, by factoring in the usage of the Pargeter rifle in the shootings, there may not necessarily have been any requirement to reload the Bamber owned rifle with additional bullets!

During the shooting tragedy...

[mike tesko]

What we know with complete certainty - was that the Bamber family owned .22 anshuzt rifle had a 10 shot ammunition magazine, and that the Pargeter owned bolt action rifle had two ammunition magazines (a) a 10 shot, and (b) a 5 shot...