Author Topic: Guardian 21/9/18  (Read 11314 times)

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Offline nugnug

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Re: Guardian 21/9/18
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2018, 01:33:PM »
finnaly ive found something worth reading in the gaurdion.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 02:56:PM by nugnug »


Online Steve_uk

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Re: Guardian 21/9/18
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2018, 09:10:PM »
I'm sure the David Bain case has given the Bamberettes hope. It would still be getting off on a technicality, however they care to dress it up.

Offline JackieD

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Re: Guardian 21/9/18
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2018, 10:47:PM »
I'm sure the David Bain case has given the Bamberettes hope. It would still be getting off on a technicality, however they care to dress it up.


In your opinion, is she up to date with the news????
Julie Mugford the main prosecution witness was guilty of numerous crimes, 13 separate cheque frauds, robbery, and drug dealing and also making a deal with a national newspaper before trial that if she could convince a jury her ex boyfriend was guilty of five murders she would receive £25,000

Offline Adam

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Re: Guardian 21/9/18
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2018, 10:04:AM »
Bamber stalwart Eric Allison has resurfaced.

It seems that Mike was right & the police, relatives & lab experts worked together & used two fabricated silencers. Which relates to the police & experts working together with all the other evidence to create the industrial frame.

Not sure if David is still going to promote his theory that the relatives fabricated one silencer without police assistance.

Hopefully the OS or CCRC will give us an update soon.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Guardian 21/9/18
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2018, 10:42:AM »
'Both silencers are believed to contain blood that could belong to either Caffell or Boutflour.'

It's all a bit confusing.

Maybe Bamber used the silencer. It has been known for silencers to be used in quiet killing attempts.  Then he took it off & put it away, where the relatives found it.

You never know.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Guardian 21/9/18
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2018, 12:42:PM »

In your opinion, is she up to date with the news????
Which she are you alluding to?

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Guardian 21/9/18
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2018, 12:43:PM »
'Both silencers are believed to contain blood that could belong to either Caffell or Boutflour.'

It's all a bit confusing.

Maybe Bamber used the silencer. It has been known for silencers to be used in quiet killing attempts.  Then he took it off & put it away, where the relatives found it.

You never know.
It doesn't negate Julie's testimony, whether the Guardian deigns to elucidate or not.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Guardian 21/9/18
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2018, 03:46:PM »
It doesn't negate Julie's testimony, whether the Guardian deigns to elucidate or not.
Julie Mugford' was not prosecuted for the offences she was guilty of committing, and being involved in, providing that she testified and gave the evidence coached to her by DS Jones on a couple of dozen occasions...

Julie Mugford' was a criminal who falls into the category of informant, someone who is going to say anything to save their own neck! Nothing that Julie Mugford' had to say proved that Jeremy killed his family, or that he had any involvement in the stage managing of his sister's death scene on the main bedroom floor, as a suicide. She was a woman scorned', she was motivated by a substantial financial incentive, and from the ordinary bloke in the streets point of view, she was and is a scumbag!

The only decent thing she had to say which had an element of truth about it, was that when she went to Chelmsford Hospital Mortuary to identify the bodies of the victims, she stated to Ann Eaton and the rest of the relatives and Jeremy upon her return, that Sheila had been shot once under the chin! She accompanied this explanation by gesturing with the index finger of her right hand, under her own chin to pinpoint the spot under her own chin as an indication where Sheila had shot herself...

Money talks, Mugford' was a criminal, Jeremy Bamber was never going to be convicted by a reliance upon her evidence alone - testifying against anyone because of a substantial financial reward cannot be confined by anyone, Mugford' was a common criminal who was manipulated by Essex police and the incorrigible Essex CPS...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Guardian 21/9/18
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2018, 04:03:PM »
Julie Mugford' was not prosecuted for the offences she was guilty of committing, and being involved in, providing that she testified and gave the evidence coached to her by DS Jones on a couple of dozen occasions...

Julie Mugford' was a criminal who falls into the category of informant, someone who is going to say anything to save their own neck! Nothing that Julie Mugford' had to say proved that Jeremy killed his family, or that he had any involvement in the stage managing of his sister's death scene on the main bedroom floor, as a suicide. She was a woman scorned', she was motivated by a substantial financial incentive, and from the ordinary bloke in the streets point of view, she was and is a scumbag!

The only decent thing she had to say which had an element of truth about it, was that when she went to Chelmsford Hospital Mortuary to identify the bodies of the victims, she stated to Ann Eaton and the rest of the relatives and Jeremy upon her return, that Sheila had been shot once under the chin! She accompanied this explanation by gesturing with the index finger of her right hand, under her own chin to pinpoint the spot under her own chin as an indication where Sheila had shot herself...

Money talks, Mugford' was a criminal, Jeremy Bamber was never going to be convicted by a reliance upon her evidence alone - testifying against anyone because of a substantial financial reward cannot be confined by anyone, Mugford' was a common criminal who was manipulated by Essex police and the incorrigible Essex CPS...
Well I do agree with you on one thing: this was always Robert Boutflour's case and not Julie's. I don't know the timeline of the interviews which Stan Jones conducted with her and how these tallied with the silencer evidence, but it was Boutflour who got the ball rolling with his letter to Simpson appealing over DCI Taff Jones' head. Julie told the truth as she saw it, she initially refrained from implicating Bamber because of the remnants of her love for him, but graduallly came to see him for what he was: a cold, calculating killer who was capable of loving no one.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Guardian 21/9/18
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2018, 05:09:PM »
Well I do agree with you on one thing: this was always Robert Boutflour's case and not Julie's. I don't know the timeline of the interviews which Stan Jones conducted with her and how these tallied with the silencer evidence, but it was Boutflour who got the ball rolling with his letter to Simpson appealing over DCI Taff Jones' head. Julie told the truth as she saw it, she initially refrained from implicating Bamber because of the remnants of her love for him, but graduallly came to see him for what he was: a cold, calculating killer who was capable of loving no one.

Hi steve_uk,

The fact of the matter, is that Jeremy Bamber could not possibly have shot dead his sister and staged her death scene as a suicide, on the main bedroom floor! We have Sheila's body in the Laundry room behind the door, followed by Sheila being wrongly presumed dead in the kitchen, followed by Sheila's body being 'on the far side of the bed,' at 8.44am, followed by Sheila's body laid on top of the bed next to the body of June Bamber at around 9.05am, culminating in Sheila's body ending up on the main bedroom floor after 9.13am...

How could Jeremy Bamber have influenced the reporting of any of these events, involving the location / position of Sheila Caffell's body in all these locations / positions?

The simple answer is that 'he couldn't have'...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline gringo

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Re: Guardian 21/9/18
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2018, 09:34:PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/21/scientists-report-casts-doubt-on-jeremy-bamber-trial-evidence
   Could this be the beginning of the unravelling of the lies that is the prosecution case? The jury asked for clarification regarding the origin of the blood in the silencer and were told unequivocally that the blood definitely came from Sheila. This claim can now be seen for what it is, a falsehood (possibly perjury?)
     However it is spun, this is more than "just a technicality". It is a clear lie told to the jury. The blood did not definitely belong to Sheila and the prosecution were aware of this but lied anyway. It is also worth noting that the other possible source for the blood, Robert Boutflour, appears to have been viewed with some suspicion by at least some of the jury who also asked whether witnesses from the family stood to benefit financially from a guilty verdict and were, at best, misled by the answer given to them.
     Had the jury been informed correctly that Robert Boutflour was a possible source for the blood,alongside the unease with his evidence and possible financial motivations, then it is reasonable to conclude that this information could easily have led to a different decision by the jury.
     If the jury have been demonstrably lied to then the verdict is the definition of unsafe.
     

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Guardian 21/9/18
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2018, 09:54:PM »
Hi steve_uk,

The fact of the matter, is that Jeremy Bamber could not possibly have shot dead his sister and staged her death scene as a suicide, on the main bedroom floor! We have Sheila's body in the Laundry room behind the door, followed by Sheila being wrongly presumed dead in the kitchen, followed by Sheila's body being 'on the far side of the bed,' at 8.44am, followed by Sheila's body laid on top of the bed next to the body of June Bamber at around 9.05am, culminating in Sheila's body ending up on the main bedroom floor after 9.13am...

How could Jeremy Bamber have influenced the reporting of any of these events, involving the location / position of Sheila Caffell's body in all these locations / positions?

The simple answer is that 'he couldn't have'...

Jeremy Bamber could not have had any influence in the reporting, finding, or being confronted by his sister's body in any location downstairs, or upstairs as mentioned by eye witness accounts from the moment PC Collins and PC Delgado peered into the Laundry room through the window prior to cops settings g foot inside the farmhouse, or have played any part or role in positioning her body here, there, and everywhere, before somebody got around to staging her death scene on the main bedroom floor as a suicide!

If the person or people who were responsible for staging Sheila's death as a suicide on the main bedroom floor, is the person, or the people who did shoot and kill Sheila Caffell' there in the parents bedroom, then look no further than Essex police, and ask yourself why they staged her death as a suicide if she hadn't committed suicide?

I make no bones about it, Sheila did not shoot herself...

Sheila was initially shot downstairs in the kitchen, by a bullet fired from the mystery rifle which was captured in one of the crime scene photographs taken in the kitchen by DC Oakey / DC Henderson...

Cops switched the original piece of a badly fragmented bullet (the original PV/20), and replaced it with a WHOLE test fired control round which had been test fired via the anshuzt rifle post the date of the tragedy! Bullets don't grow whole again, from pieces of a fragmented bullet, but that is what happened in this case - cops switched the original piece of a bullet, for a different bullet, and got their dodgy ballistic expert, Fletcher, to confirm that the replacement bullet had been fired via the anshuzt rifle, as had the other bullet (PV/19) - so that Essex police could present her death as a one gun crime, when in actual fact she was shot by two bullets fired from two rifles!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Guardian 21/9/18
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2018, 10:00:PM »
   Could this be the beginning of the unravelling of the lies that is the prosecution case? The jury asked for clarification regarding the origin of the blood in the silencer and were told unequivocally that the blood definitely came from Sheila. This claim can now be seen for what it is, a falsehood (possibly perjury?)
     However it is spun, this is more than "just a technicality". It is a clear lie told to the jury. The blood did not definitely belong to Sheila and the prosecution were aware of this but lied anyway. It is also worth noting that the other possible source for the blood, Robert Boutflour, appears to have been viewed with some suspicion by at least some of the jury who also asked whether witnesses from the family stood to benefit financially from a guilty verdict and were, at best, misled by the answer given to them.
     Had the jury been informed correctly that Robert Boutflour was a possible source for the blood,alongside the unease with his evidence and possible financial motivations, then it is reasonable to conclude that this information could easily have led to a different decision by the jury.
     If the jury have been demonstrably lied to then the verdict is the definition of unsafe.
   
Actually John Hayward did say there was a remote possibility that the blood in the silencer could have been an intimate mix of June and Nevill's blood, but this still entails Sheila returning the silencer to the gun cupboard before proceeding upstairs to shoot herself. It really is not the epiphany the Defence needs. In my opinion the only option the Bambetettes have is to keep the case in the public eye, though as we have seen with Trudy to name but one individual this can prove counterproductive. Going off the David Bain case it was the nuisance value of appealing to the Privy Council in London which amongst other things got him off, as the Establishment just wanted rid of the whole thing. I don't believe the same pertains at the moment (or is likely ever to with relatives claiming to still live in fear of his release) with the Jeremy Bamber case.