Books on the Case

[lookout]

And yet he didn't dial 999

Isn't it strange to think that was coming ?

[lookout]

You're probably as fed-up of saying it as I am of hearing it.

[Jane]

Isn't it strange to think that was coming ?

Not really. It's a point which remains valid.

[lookout]

Not really. It's a point which remains valid.

It's something that none of us know why but at the same time you can't call him a murderer because he didn't ring 999.

[David1819]

And yet he didn't dial 999

Indeed.

That's what I'm saying - he'd have certainly had that part of the plan worked out and calling 999 would (IMO) have been part of it. Think about it - if he's innocent, he didn't know it was an emergency - only that Sheila had the gun. Not that she was threatening anyone, just that she 'had the gun'. The Bambers were private people, didn't like people knowing their business. So he gets the call and not sure what to do, he calls Julie - she is neither use nor ornament and tells him to go to bed. Rather than make a fuss and call 999, he decides he will call the police but not on the emergency number. If he was guilty, he knows they're all dead and so calling 999 would make more sense. If he was that 'phone call savy' he wouldn't have called Julie. But according to you, he called his number from WHF, cycled back to Goldhanger, had a wash, then changed, called Julie, looked for two different phone numbers - all in 20 minutes?

Well done Caroline!

[lookout]

Well that answers that then.

[Steve_uk]

   Don't leap to judgement, Steve. Surely, Aunt Agatha will have details worth discussing and Jeremy can't sack anyone for discussing or writing about them. AA was involved from early in the case and we have discussed other correspondence on here. I am sure that there are points worth exploring given the benefit of developments since and hindsight.
 

Well I can guess their contents already:

I THANK YOU FOR INVOLVING YOURSELF IN MY CASE ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT THERE ARE DEVELOPMENTS COMING ROUND THE CORNER THAT WILL BLOW THE LID OFF THIS WHOLE BUSINESS AND ONCE THE DOCUMENTS COME TO LIGHT I CAN GUARANTEE THAT HEADS WILL ROLL

I’M SORRY I CAN’T GO INTO MUCH DETAIL AT THE PRESENT TIME BUT REST ASSURED IT IS BEING DEALT WITH AS MY LAWYER WILL GET THE BALL ROLLING AND THEN THE PICTURE WILL BECOME CLEARER

[Jane]

It's something that none of us know why but at the same time you can't call him a murderer because he didn't ring 999.

I'd say that an adult who fails to call 999 in an emergency -especially when they know the background story- may well, if they haven't already ensured that the worst happens, be hoping it might. There have been numerous cases lately of tots almost to young to talk who've dialed 999 because their mummies have been unwell. If a child's first instinct is to get help, how much more so would an adult's be?

[Steve_uk]

I'd say that an adult who fails to call 999 in an emergency -especially when they know the background story- may well, if they haven't already ensured that the worst happens, be hoping it might. There have been numerous cases lately of tots almost to young to talk who've dialed 999 because their mummies have been unwell. If a child's first instinct is to get help, how much more so would an adult's be?

You'd be lucky if they arrived the same day in 2018. How different things were in 1985..

[lookout]

I'd say that an adult who fails to call 999 in an emergency -especially when they know the background story- may well, if they haven't already ensured that the worst happens, be hoping it might. There have been numerous cases lately of tots almost to young to talk who've dialed 999 because their mummies have been unwell. If a child's first instinct is to get help, how much more so would an adult's be?

 "Background story?", please elaborate first and foremost.

[Jane]

 "Background story?", please elaborate first and foremost.

You KNOW, as well as I, what it allegedly is. Mentally ill girl, a few weeks out of psych hospital, in the middle of heated argument with parents about the removal of her children into foster care, and who according to an alleged call from her father, in the small hours of the morning, had gone mad and got hold of a gun. What does one do? Certainly NO ONE I know would waste 20 odd minutes flicking through a phone book to look for a police station which MIGHT be open, and call a friend for a chat before calling the police.
 HowEVER much you defend him, Lookout, in the wee small hours, when there's no one but you to make excuses to about such strange behaviour, surely even you have to wonder.

[Steve_uk]

Yes there was no sense of urgency because the crime always was about control.

[Jane]

Yes there was no sense of urgency because the crime always was about control.

There was no sense of urgency because they were already dead.

[lookout]

You KNOW, as well as I, what it allegedly is. Mentally ill girl, a few weeks out of psych hospital, in the middle of heated argument with parents about the removal of her children into foster care, and who according to an alleged call from her father, in the small hours of the morning, had gone mad and got hold of a gun. What does one do? Certainly NO ONE I know would waste 20 odd minutes flicking through a phone book to look for a police station which MIGHT be open, and call a friend for a chat before calling the police.
 HowEVER much you defend him, Lookout, in the wee small hours, when there's no one but you to make excuses to about such strange behaviour, surely even you have to wonder.

So you do admit that during Sheila's " difficult times " when her behaviour got out of hand that calls were made to Jeremy for assistance and possibly with one or two " false alarms " when he wasn't needed ?

How does anyone know what was going through Jeremy's mind after his father rang him ? Or didn't in your case which I find odd that you'd even bother to comment on if you don't believe the call happened.

However, he called Julie probably hoping that she'd drop everything and arrive to give him some moral support as for once in his life the decision was left to him and he was on his own.

[Steve_uk]

So you do admit that during Sheila's " difficult times " when her behaviour got out of hand that calls were made to Jeremy for assistance and possibly with one or two " false alarms " when he wasn't needed ?

How does anyone know what was going through Jeremy's mind after his father rang him ? Or didn't in your case which I find odd that you'd even bother to comment on if you don't believe the call happened.

However, he called Julie probably hoping that she'd drop everything and arrive to give him some moral support as for once in his life the decision was left to him and he was on his own.

But he never mentioned any of this on that first morning at Goldhanger, neither did he volunteer the information under Police interrogation.