Mystery Solved - left handed Sheila did fire the Anshuzt rifle!

[petey]

So, again out of interest. What is more important to you? Your gut feeling? Or what other people who you have never met or interacted with, purport to say?

In your eyes, do you believe that there is any legally qualified / practising person who knows (not thinks) jb is guilty?

Apologies, too much celebrating last night.

My quote was meant to read: “in your eyes, do you believe that there is any legally qualified / practising person who knows (not thinks) jb is innocent?”

[petey]

NO !


" The only things worth learning are the things you learn after you know it all "-------Harry S Truman.

So what is more important to you? Your gut feeling? Or what other people who you have never met or interacted with, purport to say?

[lookout]

So what is more important to you? Your gut feeling? Or what other people who you have never met or interacted with, purport to say?

Obviously my gut-feeling since I've never either read-up nor seen a video of or about "other people " to form any opinion of them.

[lookout]

I have studied JB's interview with Eric Allison more times than I can remember and listened for different and varying tones in his speaking, something that others should take the time to do to get an idea of a conversation which flows without certain inflections which can occur in someone who isn't telling the truth.

[lookout]

BTW,I don't believe EVERYTHING that anyone tells me !! I might nod in agreeance but inside it's usually a tongue-in-cheek job with me until the full facts are known.

[Roch]

I have studied JB's interview with Eric Allison more times than I can remember and listened for different and varying tones in his speaking, something that others should take the time to do to get an idea of a conversation which flows without certain inflections which can occur in someone who isn't telling the truth.

I wouldn't say that I have studied the interview many times - however I have listened enough to concur with your opinions on it. 

[mike tesko]

With her eyes open.

No, I don't think it mentioned whether her eyes were open or not, the point I was trying to make was that Stan Jones stated that to him it looked like Sheila was simply a sleep and that she looked so peaceful...

The thing is, that Stan Jones only saw Sheila when she had only been shot once, and that was when he visited the main bedroom along with Mick Clark and they saw Sheila and Junes bodies laid on top of the bed (Sheila's body was not on the floor, and she had not been shot on the second occasion by that stage), so with that in mind, and also bearing in mind the significance with which the pathologist Venezis places upon death being instantaneous at the point when she received the second shot, then when Stan Jones saw Sheila and he thought that she looked so peaceful as if she was sleeping, the awful truth is that she was unconscious at that time, not that she was dead at all. It also gives a somewhat insight into what Stan Jones knew by the time he came to make that particular statement mentioning these things - since, although Sheila only had a single bullet wound to her neck when Jones and Clark had seen Sheila's body laid on top of the bed, he must have realised, or been told about the shooting accident inwhich a second shot got fired into her neck whilst a training exercise was ongoing with Sheila's body moved to the floor from the bed, and the loaded rifle from the box room window brought into the main bedroom and put onto Sheila's body which resulted in her death, caused whilst senior officers practiced the art of 'informatives' around her body!

Jones must have realised much later on upon learning or being told that after he and Clark had left the farm house, that there had been a shooting accident involving the loaded rifle and Sheila Caffell'. Jones would have eventually learned that Sheila's body had been photographed on the bedroom floor with two bullet wounds to her neck, against his clear recollection of Sheila being laid on top of the bed sporting only a single bullet wound, and convinced himself that when he and Mick Clark had been in the main bedroom looking at Sheila that she must either have been unconscious or simply sleeping...

[mike tesko]

No, I don't think it mentioned whether her eyes were open or not, the point I was trying to make was that Stan Jones stated that to him it looked like Sheila was simply a sleep and that she looked so peaceful...

The thing is, that Stan Jones only saw Sheila when she had only been shot once, and that was when he visited the main bedroom along with Mick Clark and they saw Sheila and Junes bodies laid on top of the bed (Sheila's body was not on the floor, and she had not been shot on the second occasion by that stage), so with that in mind, and also bearing in mind the significance with which the pathologist Venezis places upon death being instantaneous at the point when she received the second shot, then when Stan Jones saw Sheila and he thought that she looked so peaceful as if she was sleeping, the awful truth is that she was unconscious at that time, not that she was dead at all. It also gives a somewhat insight into what Stan Jones knew by the time he came to make that particular statement mentioning these things - since, although Sheila only had a single bullet wound to her neck when Jones and Clark had seen Sheila's body laid on top of the bed, he must have realised, or been told about the shooting accident inwhich a second shot got fired into her neck whilst a training exercise was ongoing with Sheila's body moved to the floor from the bed, and the loaded rifle from the box room window brought into the main bedroom and put onto Sheila's body which resulted in her death, caused whilst senior officers practiced the art of 'informatives' around her body!

Jones must have realised much later on upon learning or being told that after he and Clark had left the farm house, that there had been a shooting accident involving the loaded rifle and Sheila Caffell'. Jones would have eventually learned that Sheila's body had been photographed on the bedroom floor with two bullet wounds to her neck, against his clear recollection of Sheila being laid on top of the bed sporting only a single bullet wound, and convinced himself that when he and Mick Clark had been in the main bedroom looking at Sheila that she must either have been unconscious or simply sleeping...

Hence, why I think Jones included the reference to Sheila looking so peaceful and as though she was merely just sleeping in one of his statements!

He knew that Sheila was still alive when both he and Mick Clark viewed the bodies of June Bamber and Sheila laid on top of the bed, and he must have known as others did that Dr Craig had made a humongous mistake by declaring her as being dead at 8.44am (without the need for a physical examination) - also bear in mind that when Dr Craig pronounced Sheila dead at 8.44am, he stated that Sheila had what appeared to be a gunshot wound to her neck! Years afterwards whilst being interviewed by Ewen Smith, Dr Craig stated that at the time he had pronounced Sheila as being dead that there was only one bullet wound to her neck by that stage, and that he never saw a second bullet entry wound...

[mike tesko]

Hence, why I think Jones included the reference to Sheila looking so peaceful and as though she was merely just sleeping in one of his statements!

He knew that Sheila was still alive when both he and Mick Clark viewed the bodies of June Bamber and Sheila laid on top of the bed, and he must have known as others did that Dr Craig had made a humongous mistake by declaring her as being dead at 8.44am (without the need for a physical examination) - also bear in mind that when Dr Craig pronounced Sheila dead at 8.44am, he stated that Sheila had what appeared to be a gunshot wound to her neck! Years afterwards whilst being interviewed by Ewen Smith, Dr Craig stated that at the time he had pronounced Sheila as being dead that there was only one bullet wound to her neck by that stage, and that he never saw a second bullet entry wound...

By a somewhat strange coincidence, Ann Eaton and the relatives were led to believe after they were told by the police that Sheila had only been shot once!

[mike tesko]

By a somewhat strange coincidence, Ann Eaton and the relatives were led to believe after they were told by the police that Sheila had only been shot once!

When 'Julie Mugford' attended Chelmsford hospital mortuary to identify the bodies of the victims, she returned to Jeremy's cottage informing everyone present the Sheila had got a single bullet wound beneath the point of her chin - she reinforced this by using her own finger and holding it underneath her own chin!

[mike tesko]

At the opening of the inquest into these five deaths, PI Bob Miller informed Deputy Coroner, Mr Thompkin' that by that stage (14th August 1985) that Essex police were satisfied that Sheila Caffell had shot and killed the other four victims, and then turn the gun upon herself, taking her own life by way of a solitary shot under the chin!

[mike tesko]

It should come as no surprise to anyone to learn that for the first month of the police investigation that police were more than satisfied to present the case as 'four murders and a suicide', and that not only Sheila, but that the other four victims had also only been shot once each...

It is not surprising, therefore, nor any wonder that the relatives were talking amongst themselves, in terms of Sheila being a crack marksman with the rifle - the truth is, however, that she didn't need to be..

By virtue of the fact that Sheila fired a total of 8 bullets at Neville Bamber is there any wonder that he died?

Similarly, with Sheila shooting June Bamber a total of 7 times, again little wonder then that she didn't survive!!

In the instances of the child victims, one shot at 5 times, the other shot a total of 3 times, all head / skull shots you would'nt have to be a crack marksman to cause death in both of these cases...

[mike tesko]

Matters of great significance came to a head during the back end of the first week in September 1985, when at long last the relatives learned the truth regarding how many times each victim had been shot - not once each, but Neville 8, June 7, Daniel 5, Nicholas 3, and Sheila twice!

From that point forward, the relatives changed their stance, now they put forward the suggestion that Sheila wasn't capable of loading around 15 additional bullets into the gun in order to carry out the killings! She had poor hand / eye co-ordination they argued. She wasn't capable of hurting her two young children, etc, etc, etc...

[Caroline]

I wouldn't say that I have studied the interview many times - however I have listened enough to concur with your opinions on it.

I think anyone listening to the interview does so with their own biases. He speaks well in the interview and comes across as polite and fairly well educated. On the surface he seems convincing; with his new found 'understanding' of Sheila's illness. However, like I said, we listen with bias and wearing guilty glasses I feel their are undertones of arrogance - especially at the end when Allinson asks what he will do if his submissions are rejected and, his voice changes when he states 'well then, we'll hit them with the other stuff' (or words to that effect). He almost makes it sound like a game.

[mike tesko]

Matters of great significance came to a head during the back end of the first week in September 1985, when at long last the relatives learned the truth regarding how many times each victim had been shot - not once each, but Neville 8, June 7, Daniel 5, Nicholas 3, and Sheila twice!

From that point forward, the relatives changed their stance, now they put forward the suggestion that Sheila wasn't capable of loading around 15 additional bullets into the gun in order to carry out the killings! She had poor hand / eye co-ordination they argued. She wasn't capable of hurting her two young children, etc, etc, etc...

More to the point, upon learning that Sheila had in fact been shot twice, Ann Eaton and the relatives recalled how Stan Jones and Mick Clark had told them at Jeremy's cottage within an hour of them having viewed Sheila's and Junes bodies both laid on top of the bed, with the rifle on the bed in-between the bodies, and a Bible on top of Sheila's chest! More importantly that Sheila had only been shot once by the time Jones and Clark had visited the main bedroom at around 9.05am on that crucial first morning...

Armed with the knowledge that the relatives had been misled and deceived by the police regarding the total number of shots which had been fired, and the total number of shots each victim including Sheila had received the relatives sat down together and realised that Sheila had not killed herself and that Jeremy could not have shot Sheila dead by way of inflicting the second shot which effectively ended her life!

The relatives discussed the possibility of Sheila and Jeremy planning on killing the adoptive parents to get their hands on Neville and June Bambers estates! But when it boiled down to Sheila having had anything whatsoever to do with the killing of her own two children, the relatives could not bring themselves to believing such an awful thing...

It was around this time, that relatives found out about the contents of the timed police radio messages which were passed between the scene and police headquarters, about Sheila's and Neville Bambers bodies being found downstairs in the kitchen (7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am and 7.45am), and that only three other bodies had been found upstairs by 8.10am..

All in all, the relatives had more than a strong suspicion that the police had something to do with the killing of Sheila, with Jeremy being behind killing the other four victims, intending to pin the blame on his sister (who he had planned to keep alive)...

This was in the mindset of the relatives by the beginning of September 1985 - either way, the relatives had got it into their heads that Jeremy should be barred as a beneficiary at all costs! Without any action on their part Jeremy might stand to inherit not only from Neville Bambers estate, and June Bambers estate, but also the estate of Mabel Speakman!

The plan was for an approach to be made to the ACC Peter Simpson by Robert Woodwis Boutflour, with the intent on trying to get the police on board to prosecute Jeremy as the killer, in return for the relatives keeping their silence regarding what they knew by that stage. In particular, that Sheila Caffell was not shot dead until after Stan Jones and Mick Clark had viewed Sheila's body laid out on the bed with a solitary non fatal neck wound, and they had left the scene, and gone straight to Jeremy's cottage to recount the then known facts - the facts being at that time, and on that occasion, that despite Dr Craig pronouncing Sheila as being dead on the far side of the bed at 8.44am, the simple truth in the matter was that she couldn't have been dead, when Craig had pronounced her as being dead! Sheila had been alive at that time, barely alive, but alive!

She was still alive with Jones and Clark visited the main bedroom, and viewed Sheila laid out on top of the bed, she had still only got that solitary bullet entry wound to her neck, the rifle which would fire the second fatal bullet that finished Sheila off, was resting on the bed in-between the bodies of June and Sheila!

Robert Boutflour told Simpson a few home truths...

He told him...