Author Topic: Is the BBC totally compromised?  (Read 58438 times)

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Offline nugnug

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Re: Is the BBC totally compromised?
« Reply #90 on: April 29, 2018, 11:27:PM »
You have not provided any tangible evidence to refute it. You simply don't like the idea.

What are the component chemicals of Novichok and what are their shelf life? You have not answered this and I doubt anyone could.

Russia not only has the means means, motive and opportunity but also has this mode of operating.

Only two contries have ever been known to make it. Russia and Iran.

Who is your alternative suspect and how did they optain the toxin?

what difference does it make if he was shot with uzi would that mean is isreal did it if he was shot with smith and western would that mean amerce did it weather it was Russian made or not means absolutely nothing.

Offline David1819

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Re: Is the BBC totally compromised?
« Reply #91 on: April 29, 2018, 11:42:PM »
what difference does it make if he was shot with uzi would that mean is isreal did it if he was shot with smith and western would that mean amerce did it weather it was Russian made or not means absolutely nothing.

False comparison. These weapons are not sold like guns. They are kept in secure locations. They are not all easy to acquire. If the substance is highly controlled you can narrow down where it came from.





Offline nugnug

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Re: Is the BBC totally compromised?
« Reply #92 on: April 30, 2018, 12:04:AM »
False comparison. These weapons are not sold like guns. They are kept in secure locations. They are not all easy to acquire. If the substance is highly controlled you can narrow down where it came from.

this was made in the days of the soviet union so any of the former soviet republics could have some not to mention the former eastern block country's and they could of sold it on to countless other people

Offline David1819

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Re: Is the BBC totally compromised?
« Reply #93 on: April 30, 2018, 12:34:AM »
this was made in the days of the soviet union so any of the former soviet republics could have some not to mention the former eastern block country's and they could of sold it on to countless other people

They don't sell it. Unless some has creeped into the black market. Then again you need to know how to use this stuff. Its not like using a gun.

Some was produced in the 90s by Russia. And they wont sell it because they don't want it to fall into enemy hands.

Offline gringo

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Re: Is the BBC totally compromised?
« Reply #94 on: April 30, 2018, 12:37:AM »
You have not provided any tangible evidence to refute it. You simply don't like the idea.

What are the component chemicals of Novichok and what are their shelf life? You have not answered this and I doubt anyone could.

Russia not only has the means means, motive and opportunity but also has this mode of operating.

Only two contries have ever been known to make it. Russia and Iran.

Who is your alternative suspect and how did they optain the toxin?
   What idea is that? It is simply a fanciful theory backed by nothing more than conjecture.
    As you are keen to point out yourself, "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
   The mixing of the component chemicals is the tricky and dangerous part and the theory that unnamed persons took some old Soviet stock to mix together 25+ years later has literally nothing to support it. Who, when, where? What lab did they mix them in 25+ years later? To call it a theory lends it a stature it doesn't deserve.
   Your belief that the only two countries known to make it being Iran and Russia is just intellectually lazy, wrong and lacks any context.
   Iran synthesised novichok under the supervision of the OPCW in 2016. Now if you were genuinely curious, and not just intent on blind jingoism, you may wonder why Iran did this. Things like this do not happen in a vacuum.
   Prior to this novichoks were not listed as a prohibited chemical weapon by the OPCW because the consensus was that they were not viable and had never been successfully synthesised.
    Wikileaks have released emails between US and UK OPCW delegations and State Dept. discussing how best to divert from discussing novichok and prevent it's listing by the OPCW. The reason other countries delegations were bringing up the subject was because of the revelations of Vils Mirzayanov , a Soviet scientist from the chemical weapons programme, who defected to the US where he still lives. In his book, still available, "State Secrets" Mirzanayov actually gives the formula for novichoks. The US and UK delegations made sure that the OPCW did not list novichoks and the  email trail proves this. Read it below:

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/03/clinton-state-department-discouraged-novichok-discussion.html
   
    Do you think that perhaps the Iranians had got wind of US/UK shenanigans and probably the knowledge that the US/UK had successfully synthesised novichok? Would this explain Iran's working alongside the OPCW to produce it themselves and get it listed by the OPCW? Why did US/UK delegations seem keen to prevent novichok being listed?
    Or do you think that the Iranian interest had nothing to do with the questions being raised by many delegations and they just produced novichok for no real reason?
   
     
   
     

Offline David1819

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Re: Is the BBC totally compromised?
« Reply #95 on: April 30, 2018, 01:09:AM »
   What idea is that? It is simply a fanciful theory backed by nothing more than conjecture.
    As you are keen to point out yourself, "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
   The mixing of the component chemicals is the tricky and dangerous part and the theory that unnamed persons took some old Soviet stock to mix together 25+ years later has literally nothing to support it. Who, when, where? What lab did they mix them in 25+ years later? To call it a theory lends it a stature it doesn't deserve.
 

I am not the one arguing for degradation. That was your claim.

Have you ascertained the shelf life of the component chemicals? No
Have you even found out what the component chemicals are? No
You said "google it yourself it isn't contested" So I am waiting.


Has Russia produced Novichok? Yes
Can Russia make more Novichok? Yes
Did Russia let Skripal go as part of a spy swap deal? Yes
Has the Russian secret service used posion before? Yes
Do the Russians like people who commit treason? No

Means motive and opportunity is all there.

You said a few posts back

He was released and pardoned by them years earlier and could have been sentenced to death for treason when convicted.

He was convicted in 2006. Russian judicial death penalty was abolished in 1999. I dont think you are in any position to criticise me in my ways of investigating world affairs. You have applied zero formal or systematic examination of the subject we are talking about.

Offline gringo

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Re: Is the BBC totally compromised?
« Reply #96 on: April 30, 2018, 04:21:AM »
I am not the one arguing for degradation. That was your claim.

Have you ascertained the shelf life of the component chemicals? No
Have you even found out what the component chemicals are? No
You said "google it yourself it isn't contested" So I am waiting.


Has Russia produced Novichok? Yes
Can Russia make more Novichok? Yes
Did Russia let Skripal go as part of a spy swap deal? Yes
Has the Russian secret service used posion before? Yes
Do the Russians like people who commit treason? No

Means motive and opportunity is all there.

You said a few posts back

He was convicted in 2006. Russian judicial death penalty was abolished in 1999. I dont think you are in any position to criticise me in my ways of investigating world affairs. You have applied zero formal or systematic examination of the subject we are talking about.
   Your question was and is irrelevant and a pathetic diversion given that it is a scenario seemingly plucked from your backside. The info is simple to find as already made clear and your question was dismissed on the grounds that you frequently state yourself. You asserted without evidence and I felt free to dismiss with the same standard applied. However here is the answer to your irrelevant question about degradation.

https://evolvepolitics.com/what-the-government-isnt-telling-you-about-novichok-nerve-agents/

    So, we have the previously mentioned Vils Mirzayanov confirming what I said about the degradation and the difficulty being the mixing. Your theory is nonsense. The detail of the death penalty in Russia is irrelevant to the point. If they had intended Skripal harm then they had ample opportunity before they  pardoned and released him.
    Your silly list of questions and answers is idiotic and shows your lack of understanding of world affairs. That you cannot conceive that the intelligence services of other nations including the UK have motives for the attack, despite the many links on this thread alone, displays your ignorance.
   I am also well aware that Mirzayanov claims to believe the Russians responsible but as a defector and clear "CIA asset" his opinions on these matters are obviously going to mirror the official CIA line.
   Scientific facts however are not subjective. You need a new theory.
   Instead of searching only for reasons to blame Russia, perhaps you could explain why the intelligence agencies of the US/UK were proven to be actively working to prevent novichok being listed by the OPCW. You have spent about ten minutes "researching" this and it shows.
Here's the link again that you clearly didn't read.

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/03/clinton-state-department-discouraged-novichok-discussion.html

   
    It is damning on the UK/US and begs questions way more relevant than the questions that your "analysis" raises.

Offline gringo

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Re: Is the BBC totally compromised?
« Reply #97 on: April 30, 2018, 05:50:AM »

[/quote]   It is also worth reading the following links, already provided in this thread, where you will be able to establish that the only people making the claim that a novichok was used in Salisbury is you and Steve. This also shows that your research didn't even stretch to reading the conversations in this thread.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/sshd-v-skripal-and-another-20180322.pdf

   The statement issued by the UK government is very carefully worded and if you read down to para. 17 of the judgement you will find similar qualified language. This is not a mistake and it is unlikely that a novichok was used let alone one that Russia has to account for.
   It is obvious that you have some catching up to do.

Offline gringo

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Re: Is the BBC totally compromised?
« Reply #98 on: April 30, 2018, 06:52:AM »
    Here is some more reading for you, David:

https://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw-issues-report-on-technical-assistance-requested-by-the-united-kingdom/

    Of note is that novichok is not mentioned and the OPCW were only asked to confirm the UK findings of the agent used. The details of the UK findings are classified.
    You may then ask at this point why the UK government didn't request a full fact finding mission by the OPCW under section 9 but instead only brought in the OPCW after pressure from allies who wanted more reassurance as they were being corralled into diplomatic expulsions etc. When as a result of this pressure the UK government did call in the OPCW it was under section 8 and limited to technical assistance. I doubt you understand the difference or the significance of that difference but anyway.
    The technical assistance asked for was for the OPCW to confirm the UK labs analysis of the agent. As previously noted the UK analysis is classified. Apart from Boris Johnson occasionally wandering off script, the UK government has stuck to the "of a type" wording in all official communications on the issue. The court papers linked to earlier avoid mentioning novichok and use the meaningless "or closely related agent" type language. Paragraph 17 of the judgement linked in the previous post.                                               
    Are you still so confident that the Skripals were poisoned with a novichok from old Soviet stock :o, or that they were poisoned with a novichok which only Russia and Iran are known to produce?
   
   
   

Offline lookout

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Re: Is the BBC totally compromised?
« Reply #99 on: April 30, 2018, 09:12:AM »
Contact and/or ingestion of the stuff is totally incurable,so how they're still alive beats me. There's no antidote.

Offline gringo

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Re: Is the BBC totally compromised?
« Reply #100 on: April 30, 2018, 05:04:PM »
Contact and/or ingestion of the stuff is totally incurable,so how they're still alive beats me. There's no antidote.
   There was no novichok, Lookout.

Offline gringo

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Re: Is the BBC totally compromised?
« Reply #101 on: April 30, 2018, 05:07:PM »
    Craig Murray site under another denial of service ongoing from last night, coincidentally just after mentioning the D notice on Pablo Miller  ???

Offline gringo

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Re: Is the BBC totally compromised?
« Reply #102 on: April 30, 2018, 05:32:PM »

Offline lookout

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Re: Is the BBC totally compromised?
« Reply #103 on: April 30, 2018, 08:47:PM »
   There was no novichok, Lookout.





No,there couldn't have been. Any contamination of the stuff is lethal and would positively have killed those two agents immediately.

Offline gringo

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