Who Killed Sheila Caffell? Part Two: Jeremy's Plan

[Nigel]

So why wouldn't she be wearing her nightdress during this mysterious midnight snack ? She had just got out of bed.

She almost certainly had clothes on during late night snack, then took at least two guns....

...Went upstairs with guns and undressed.

[Luminous Wanderer]

You obviously don't know the evidence. Which is why you keep creating long threads asking questions. Then say 'Bamber doesn't need to explain' when other questions are asked.

We're back to being disingenuous again.  I do know the evidence.  I've seen the blood screening.  It's inconclusive about cannabinoids and shows only a moderate level of psychotropics present. 

I repeat my question: do you have any of the supporting evidence I referred to?  You're the one making the assertions about Sheila, in which we're supposed to believe she was a zombie.

The legal position is that Bamber doesn't have to prove anything in regard to some thesis about Sheila's actions.  I may or may not comment on what Sheila could have done, but it's not required.  I don't have to.  If you don't like it, then stop answering my threads.  Start your own threads and see if anybody's interested.

Of course it was easy for Bamber to move & kill Sheila. She was a recovering anorexic, on Haliperiodol & under sedation.

Under sedation....?  Are you telling us she'd taken an overdose or is it that you just don't know what you're talking about and you've made that up?  Aside from that, I've yet to see you demonstrate that she could not have overpowered Nevill.  It would be a good start if you actually produce some evidence along the lines I've requested.  We are interested in facts here, aren't we?

[Adam]

Why are you so certain Sheila had a 'nightdress' on?, and not 'naked' or 'semi naked'?..

.., then, she 'cleansed' herself. Before putting a 'fresh' nightdress on to protect her modesty in preparation for her final journey.

Why do you believe Sheila put on a nightdress, and no footwear for 'her final journey' ? The exact same nightclothes everyone else was wearing.

[Nigel]

Why do you believe Sheila put on a nightdress, and no footwear for 'her final journey' ? The exact same nightclothes everyone else was wearing.

Sheila had the blue socks on, found by her body.

Sheila took them off before her final journey. The Bible page refers to David who walked 'barefoot' up the mountain.

[Adam]

We're back to being disingenuous again.  I do know the evidence.  I've seen the blood screening.  It's inconclusive about cannabinoids and shows only a moderate level of psychotropics present. 

I repeat my question: do you have any of the supporting evidence I referred to?  You're the one making the assertions about Sheila, in which we're supposed to believe she was a zombie.

The legal position is that Bamber doesn't have to prove anything in regard to some thesis about Sheila's actions.  I may or may not comment on what Sheila could have done, but it's not required.  I don't have to.  If you don't like it, then stop answering my threads.  Start your own threads and see if anybody's interested.

Under sedation....?  Are you telling us she'd taken an overdose or is it that you just don't know what you're talking about and you've made that up?  Aside from that, I've yet to see you demonstrate that she could not have overpowered Nevill.  It would be a good start if you actually produce some evidence along the lines I've requested.  We are interested in facts here, aren't we?

You obviously have not read the COA summary. Which I posted the link for you yesterday.

You also don't know about Haloperidol. I suggest you read up on this.

I post sources all the time. Such as yesterdays COA information. Where are yours ?

Anyway it seems you're role is to look at possible ways Bamber could get released on a technicality. Things that Bamber does not have to answer, you won't.

[Adam]

Sheila had the blue socks on, found by her body.

Sheila took them off before her final journey. The Bible page refers to David who walked 'barefoot' up the mountain.

Why did Sheila take blue socks off before killing herself. Would they not be Nevill's socks as they were on his side of the bed.

Have you got a source they were Sheila's socks ?

[Adam]

She almost certainly had clothes on during late night snack, then took at least two guns....

...Went upstairs with guns and undressed.

When do you believe Nevill phoned Jeremy & the police ?

[Nigel]

Why did Sheila take blue socks off before killing herself. Would they not be Nevill's socks as they were on his side of the bed.

Have you got a source they were Sheila's socks ?

They were Nevile's socks, Sheila borrowed them for 'bed socks'.

'Why did Sheila take blue socks off before killing herself'

I answered that on previous post 'David'.

' The Bible page refers to David who walked 'barefoot' up the mountain.'

[Luminous Wanderer]

You obviously have not read the COA summary. Which I posted the link for you yesterday.

You also don't know about Haloperidol. I suggest you read up on this.

I post sources all the time. Such as yesterdays COA information. Where are yours ?

Anyway it seems you're role is to look at possible ways Bamber could get released on a technicality. Things that Bamber does not have to answer, you won't.

Sorry, that won't wash with me.

I know enough about psychotropic medications to know that she would only have been sedated if she had taken an overdose.  The fact that you have got that little point wrong is a telling clue that you don't know what you are talking about.

Now, let's just summarise where we are:

(i). You have made a specific assertion about Sheila: that she was in a zombie-like state.

(ii). I am asking you for evidence to support the assertion.

(iii). I have explained that I have already seen the blood results, and I have mentioned what those found and how they do not support your assertion.

(iv). You reply with the irrelevant, disingenuous rubbish above, evading responsibility as usual.

About two weeks ago, I caught you out lying about the blood tests on the moderator.  Is this another one of your lies?

[Adam]

Sorry, that won't wash with me.

I know enough about psychotropic medications to know that she would only have been sedated if she had taken an overdose.  The fact that you have got that little point wrong is a telling clue that you don't know what you are talking about.

Now, let's just summarise where we are:

(i). You have made a specific assertion about Sheila: that she was in a zombie-like state.

(ii). I am asking you for evidence to support the assertion.

(iii). I have explained that I have already seen the blood results, and I have mentioned what those found and how they do not support your assertion.

(iv). You reply with the irrelevant, disingenuous rubbish above, evading responsibility as usual.

About two weeks ago, I caught you out lying about the blood tests on the moderator.  Is this another one of your lies?

You are a liar. What tests ?

Sheila was on Haloperidol. She was under sedation. She was a recovering anorexic. Sources exist which I have posted before.  Do some work and find them.

You also don't know what Sheila was like the days and hours before the massacre. Again do some work and find out. I'm not you're personal source provider.

Anyway I will post the list of forensic evidence which incriminates Bamber. Each point has at least one source. I wanted to avoid doing this as David gets very frustrated and posts images & abuse which ruins the forum.

And please don't keep posting rubbish trying to keep impartial. And don't lie.

[Nigel]

You are a liar. What tests ?

Sheila was on Haloperidol. She was under sedation. She was a recovering anorexic. Sources exist which I have posted before.  Do some work and find them.

You also don't know what Sheila was like the days and hours before the massacre. Again do some work and find out. I'm not you're personal source provider.

Anyway I will post the list of forensic evidence which incriminates Bamber. Each point has at least one source. I wanted to avoid doing this as David gets very frustrated and posts images & abuse which ruins the forum.

And please don't keep posting rubbish trying to keep impartial. And don't lie.

My brother was on Haloperidol he could become extremely aggressive. That was while he tried to commit suicide by cutting his throat with a smashed glass in our mothers kitchen.

[Adam]

LuminousWanderer did ask for sources. He's obviously not very well read on the case & tries to mask it with long posts.

He will say Bamber & himself do not have to answer these points as all Bamber has to do is find a technicality on one thing, which he is looking for. Which is his chosen approach. However all posters on here debate on all the evidence whether a guilter or supporter.

Sources in capitals.

1. Perfectly clean palm of hands on Sheila - Not disputed - COA

2. One blood mark on back of hand of Sheila - Not disputed - COA

3. Extremley low levels of lead found on hands on Sheila.  Not consistent with handling a rifle. Significantly higher traces expected - Not disputed - COA, BAMBER'S DEFENCE.

4. Well manicured nails on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.

5. No broken nails - Not disputed COA.

6. Nails in tact - Not disputed - COA.

7. No marks or indentations on Sheila's fingers - Not disputed - COA.

8. No blood on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.

9. No dirt on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.

10. No powder on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.

11. Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE, BAMBER.

12. No trace of any lead dust coating on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.

13. No traces of the lubricant from re loading twice - Not disputed - COA

14. Very clean feet - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.

15. Feet free from significant blood staining - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.

16. Bamber doing nothing between 3.10am - 3.26/36am - Not disputed - BAMBER

17. No debris such as sugar on feet - Not disputed - COA.

18. No foot injuries after bare footed aggressive movement around big house & brutal fight - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST.

19. Only Sheila Caffell's blood on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.

20. No presence of firearm residue on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.

21. No trace of rifle oil on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.

22. No mention of nightdress damage from agressive movement and brutal kitchen fight - Not disputed - COA.

23. No facial injuries on Sheila - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST.

24. Sheila avoiding kitchen fight injuries with no body or face protection - Not disputed - FORUM.

25. Nevill's massive height/weight advantage over Sheila - Not disputed - ACCEPTED FACT.

26. Impossibility of shower removing evidence off Sheila - Not disputed - SCIENTIFIC FACT.

27. Impossibility of Sheila showering after killing herself - Not disputed - SCIENTIFIC FACT.

28. Nevill being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting had just got out of bed - Not disputed - PHOTOS.

29. Sheila being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting she had just got out of bed - Not disputed - PHOTOS.

30. Paint in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES. .

31. Aga scratch's - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

32. Blood in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

33. No blood in the rifle end - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

34. Sheila's legs pulled after second shot - Not disputed - COA.

35. Blood underneath the bible - Not disputed - COA.

36. A lot of blood on Nevill's side of the bed - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS.

37. Large scale multiple mental & physical effects of Haloperidol - Not disputed. - INTERNET ARTICLES, YOUTUBE.

38. Sheila having Haloperidol in her body - Not disputed - COA.

39. Sheila's condition hours before the massacre - Not disputed. Bamber being a main witness - BAMBER & OTHER PEOPLE.

40. Sheila under sedation - Not disputed - COA.

41. Easy window entrance into WHF - Not disputed. Agreed by Bamber. - BAMBER.

42. Shutting kitchen window from outside - Disputed in 2017 but 20 independent sources prove otherwise - 20 SOURCES IN THE LIBRARY.

43. No better massacre weapon options for Bamber - Not disputed - FORUM.

44. Professor Herbert Leon Mcdonell - Not disputed after Bamber hired him - WILKES'S BOOK.

45. Easy bike routes to WHF - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

46. Bike brought to Bamber's cottage just before the massacre - Not disputed - BAMBERS POLICE INTERVIEWS.

47. June not waking or getting woken by Nevill - Not disputed - COA.

48. Nevill's back burns - Not disputed. Suggestion burns were caused minus silencer rejected - BAMBER, TONIGHT PROGRAMME.

49. 2012 CCRC court judgement - judicial review request made & rejected - JUDICIAL REVIEW DOCUMENT.

50. The twins not waking - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

51. Bamber's call to the police - Not disputed - NUMEROUS SOURCES.

52. Nevill's horrific injuries - Not disputed - COURT OF APPEAL.

53. Sheila's time limits - Not disputed - POLICE STATEMENTS.

54. No valid Sheila scenario - Not disputed - OS & FORUM.

55. Bamber's 3am call to Julie - Not disputed - BAMBER.

56. Nevill's 2/4 second call to Bamber - Not disputed - BAMBER.

57. Bamber asking the police to pick him up - Not disputed - WILKES, CRIMES, HEARTS & CORONETS.

58. Nevill's back burns - Not disputed - BAMBER.

59. Ease for a man to lift & carry a woman - Not disputed. YOUTUBE VIDEO.

60. Crime scenes of 5 individuals - Not disputed - COA. 

61. Bamber's found hacksaw - Not disputed - BAMBER.

62. Bible on Sheila's arm- Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS.

63. Only execution period available to Bamber, 12am - 3am - Not disputed - BAMBER

64. Housekeeper evidence of items around the sink being moved - Not disputed- PB WS, WILKES'S BOOK

65. Only Sheila receiving a contact shot in a location that produces back splatter- Not disputed, COA.

66. Bloodied plam print on Sheila's nightdress - Not disputed. COA

[Luminous Wanderer]

You are a liar. What tests ?

Sheila was on Haloperidol. She was under sedation. She was a recovering anorexic. Sources exist which I have posted before.  Do some work and find them.

You also don't know what Sheila was like the days and hours before the massacre. Again do some work and find out. I'm not you're personal source provider.

Anyway I will post the list of forensic evidence which incriminates Bamber. Each point has at least one source. I wanted to avoid doing this as David gets very frustrated and posts images & abuse which ruins the forum.

And please don't keep posting rubbish trying to keep impartial. And don't lie.

This isn't going to work on me.  Even if I'm wrong, I am just asking you questions and asking you to support a very important assertion that you make: that doesn't make me a liar.

First, define 'sedation', otherwise you're being glib. 

Second, produce the evidence that she was under sedation - the specific term you use.

Third, produce the evidence I have asked for or admit you don't have it because it's not there.  Do one or the other, then we can assess properly the validity of what you claim.

Bear in mind why I am asking these questions - you are the one making the assertion, and it's a very critical assertion, that not only could Sheila have slept through Jeremy's massacre, but she could not possibly have carried out her own.

So let's see the evidence.  I've read the majority of the documents and I'm telling you I've seen nothing whatsoever to support your assertions.  It's my belief that you are either lying or you have misinterpreted what you've read.

Note to moderators - please keep these comments up.  I've already established that this person is a liar on a previous point, i.e. the blood on the silencer, and you'll note how quick he is to call me a liar just for asking questions.

[Luminous Wanderer]

LuminousWanderer did ask for sources. He's obviously not very well read on the case & tries to mask it with long posts.

Absolute rubbish!

You state:

40. Sheila under sedation - Not disputed - COA.

As if that can be an adequate response! 

Which Court of Appeal hearing and ruling was this?  You don't seriously expect me to remember every single point in a voluminous appellate ruling? 

And what is meant by 'Not disputed'?  How is that distinguished from what you call, 'Accepted Fact'?  And that's before the other questions I've already asked which you are not answering.

[Adam]

Absolute rubbish!

You state:

40. Sheila under sedation - Not disputed - COA.

As if that can be an adequate response! 

Which Court of Appeal hearing and ruling was this?  You don't seriously expect me to remember every single point in a voluminous appellate ruling? 

And what is meant by 'Not disputed'?  How is that distinguished from what you call, 'Accepted Fact'?  And that's before the other questions I've already asked which you are not answering.

I posted the COA link for you yesterday. I won't again.

Keep up.