Contact wounds with silencers

[Adam]

8.

When the police attended at the farm, they were joined by the appellant. There was no sound from the farm save for the barking of a dog and fearing that they might be in a hostage situation the police decided to wait until daylight.

At about 7.45 a.m., armed officers entered the farm and found all 5 occupants dead from gunshot wounds.

--------------

It seems that David believes Sheila shot herself 5 minutes before the raid team entered WHF. Although does was not believe Sheila was in the kitchen.

Sheila must have been sitting in the dark & in silence upstairs for the previous 4 hours. With June, Nicholas & Daniel.

[mike tesko]

It's also an alleged 'fact' that there were two bodies in the kitchen.............although quite what Sheila was supposed to have died of is anyone's guess if she hadn't shot herself and police had yet to shoot her. Of course, if an alleged report exists -which confirms this (although, for the life of me, and for obvious reasons, ie it could be leaked?, I can't imagine why such a grave error would be recorded) and you 'know' about it, so, too, must every agency involved, In fact, it would probably be public knowledge.
Then there's the other alleged 'fact' that Nevill phoned the police,which, as no one has come forward to admit it -quite probably because it's the first they've heard of it- it has yet to be verified.

There's nothing alleged about the fact that there were two bodies in the kitchen! The female body described as being dead there, was a body in addition to the dead male body, not mistaken for one! Reference to one dead male was mentioned in the police message logs before any mention at all of a female dead body. The alleged mistake regarding PC Collins mistaking Neville bambers body for a dead female was made from the vantage point outside the kitchen window, or in other words before the raid team entered the kitchen. Once they entered the kitchen cops found the body of one dead male (Nevill Bamber) and the body of one dead female (Sheila caffell), one plus one equals two...

As for who shot Sheila in the kitchen, I keep telling you that there exists an 'Officers Report' (1612, refers) which deals with a shooting incident at the time the first raid team officers entered the kitchen, so I wonder who got shot at? If Neville was already dead by that stage, he having already been shot 7 times, why would cops shoot at him?

Sheila was still very much alive when cops entered the farmhouse, your expecting me to believe that with the five bodies all accounted for by 8.10amm that Ron Cook's SOC team were kept waiting outside the farmhouse for one hour and fifty minutes before they were allowed in to gather evidence? The first few minutes and tens of minutes are the most crucial in any police investigation, yet officially SOCO were kept waiting outside the farmhouse whilst something sinister was taking place inside involving the firearm officers, senior officers and the first SOC team which compromised of DC Oakley and DC Henderson.  Now, why haven't we heard from DC Oakley and DC Henderson regarding the duties they performed inside the farmhouse during an hour long period (9.00am to 10.00am)? Why haven't we heard what senior officers got up to when they carried out 'informatives' inside the main bedroom around and involving the bodies of June and Sheila? Did senior officers just stand around twiddling their thumbs for an hour and fifty minutes until it was time to invite Ron Cook and the second team of SOC to take control of the crime scene?

Nobody knew about the first version of events by the time came before the Chelmsford Crown Court in October 1986, nobody knew jack shit about there being two bodies downstairs in the kicthen upon entry of the raid team recorded at variously timed messages at 7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, 7.45am, and nobody knew or had an inkling that only three bodies had been found upstairs by 8.10am. Its no good you trying to make out it was an open secret, because it wasn't, the cops and the CPS kept those facts away from the defence and the jury which tried the matter - instead, this dastardly gang of uniformed criminals, led with the claim that only Neville bambers body was found downstairs in the kitchen, and the other four bodies found upstairs, Sheila's body on the bedroom floor in possession of the rifle which had been used to killed everyone, including herself...

All the agencies did not know the truth about this second version of the facts, otherwise Jeremy Bamber would never have been convicted at all, the jury would have seen through the dishonesty in the prosecutions / police investigation / case...

Neville Bamber did make the 3.26am call to the police, this fact was also not available at the time of the original trial, you only have to look at the wording of his call to realise that Neville was talking about his daughter, who had 'got hold of one of my guns',yet when Jeremy made his call to PC West at 3.36am, Jeremy told him that his father had said that Sheila or his sister 'had got the gun'...

There is a lot of information and new evidence about now which was not available at the time of the trial, evidence and information which the jury were entitled to hear or know about, but because the powers that be, sat and planned whhat evidence and information they would allow in, or keep out, the actual truth never got a fair hearing...

[David1819]

8.

When the police attended at the farm, they were joined by the appellant. There was no sound from the farm save for the barking of a dog and fearing that they might be in a hostage situation the police decided to wait until daylight.

At about 7.45 a.m., armed officers entered the farm and found all 5 occupants dead from gunshot wounds.

--------------

It seems that David believes Sheila shot herself 5 minutes before the raid team entered WHF. Although does was not believe Sheila was in the kitchen.

Sheila must have been sitting in the dark & in silence upstairs for the previous 4 hours. With June, Nicholas & Daniel.

It seems Adam has not learnt his lesson on the reliability of the COA. It is not a "source in itself"

The phone operator listening via the kitchen phone. Can hear the police breaking into the kitchen. This was recorded at 7:36am

[Adam]

It seems Adam has not learnt his lesson on the reliability of the COA. It is not a "source in itself"

The phone operator listening via the kitchen phone. Can hear the police breaking into the kitchen. This was recorded at 7:36am

You said in reply 55 you believe Sheila shot herself at 7.40am. Now you are saying the police entered WHF at 7.36am. Although the COA said the police entered WHF at 7.45am.

Are you saying Sheila died after the police entered WHF. Agreeing with Mike & the CT ?

And please answer my questions to you in reply 58 -

What was Sheila doing for 4 hours in the dark after the police arrived ?

Why did Sheila choose to stay awake for 4 hours after killing 4 people ?

[Steve_uk]

It seems Adam has not learnt his lesson on the reliability of the COA. It is not a "source in itself"

The phone operator listening via the kitchen phone. Can hear the police breaking into the kitchen. This was recorded at 7:36am

Do we have access to PC Hall's full statement?

[mike tesko]

It was PC Mildenhall who was monitoring the '999' call from 6.09am, onward...

[mike tesko]

You said in reply 55 you believe Sheila shot herself at 7.40am. Now you are saying the police entered WHF at 7.36am. Although the COA said the police entered WHF at 7.45am.

Are you saying Sheila died after the police entered WHF. Agreeing with Mike & the CT ?

And please answer my questions to you in reply 58 -

What was Sheila doing for 4 hours in the dark after the police arrived ?

Why did Sheila choose to stay awake for 4 hours after killing 4 people ?

What gun did Sheila shoot herself with in the kitchen, if the anshuzt rifle was resting against the box room window on the first floor (based on Julia Jeapes and PC Browns accounts)?

So Sheila shoots herself in the kitchen with an imaginary gun?

[mike tesko]

What gun did Sheila shoot herself with in the kitchen, if the anshuzt rifle was resting against the box room window on the first floor (based on Julia Jeapes and PC Browns accounts)?

So Sheila shoots herself in the kitchen with an imaginary gun?

Er...

something wrong here, me thinks...

Oh, then again, what about the rifle in one of the crime scene photographs that were taken in the vicinity of the kitchen where it states that no-one is to comment upon the gun in one of the photographs taken there!

So there was a rifle in the kitchen!!

But which rifle, certainly not the anshuzt rifle, because I think it was PC Collins who said that the rifle was not present in the kitchen in one of his witness statements...

If the rifle in one of the photographs was not the anshuzt rifle, then to be pondered upon, is which other rifle could it have been?

[mike tesko]

It seems that David believes Sheila shot herself 5 minutes before the raid team entered WHF. Although does was not believe Sheila was in the kitchen.

Well, David is absolutely wrong about that if that's what he thinks, so prey tell which gun did she shoot herself with in the kitchen?

[Jane]

What gun did Sheila shoot herself with in the kitchen, if the anshuzt rifle was resting against the box room window on the first floor (based on Julia Jeapes and PC Browns accounts)?

So Sheila shoots herself in the kitchen with an imaginary gun?

As Sheila didn't shoot herself in the kitchen.............or in the foot...............or anywhere else, for that matter, it's not something we need to concern ourselves with.

[Jane]

There's nothing alleged about the fact that there were two bodies in the kitchen! The female body described as being dead there, was a body in addition to the dead male body, not mistaken for one! Reference to one dead male was mentioned in the police message logs before any mention at all of a female dead body. The alleged mistake regarding PC Collins mistaking Neville bambers body for a dead female was made from the vantage point outside the kitchen window, or in other words before the raid team entered the kitchen. Once they entered the kitchen cops found the body of one dead male (Nevill Bamber) and the body of one dead female (Sheila caffell), one plus one equals two...

As for who shot Sheila in the kitchen, I keep telling you that there exists an 'Officers Report' (1612, refers) which deals with a shooting incident at the time the first raid team officers entered the kitchen, so I wonder who got shot at? If Neville was already dead by that stage, he having already been shot 7 times, why would cops shoot at him?

Sheila was still very much alive when cops entered the farmhouse, your expecting me to believe that with the five bodies all accounted for by 8.10amm that Ron Cook's SOC team were kept waiting outside the farmhouse for one hour and fifty minutes before they were allowed in to gather evidence? The first few minutes and tens of minutes are the most crucial in any police investigation, yet officially SOCO were kept waiting outside the farmhouse whilst something sinister was taking place inside involving the firearm officers, senior officers and the first SOC team which compromised of DC Oakley and DC Henderson.  Now, why haven't we heard from DC Oakley and DC Henderson regarding the duties they performed inside the farmhouse during an hour long period (9.00am to 10.00am)? Why haven't we heard what senior officers got up to when they carried out 'informatives' inside the main bedroom around and involving the bodies of June and Sheila? Did senior officers just stand around twiddling their thumbs for an hour and fifty minutes until it was time to invite Ron Cook and the second team of SOC to take control of the crime scene?

Nobody knew about the first version of events by the time came before the Chelmsford Crown Court in October 1986, nobody knew jack shit about there being two bodies downstairs in the kicthen upon entry of the raid team recorded at variously timed messages at 7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42am, 7.45am, and nobody knew or had an inkling that only three bodies had been found upstairs by 8.10am. Its no good you trying to make out it was an open secret, because it wasn't, the cops and the CPS kept those facts away from the defence and the jury which tried the matter - instead, this dastardly gang of uniformed criminals, led with the claim that only Neville bambers body was found downstairs in the kitchen, and the other four bodies found upstairs, Sheila's body on the bedroom floor in possession of the rifle which had been used to killed everyone, including herself...

All the agencies did not know the truth about this second version of the facts, otherwise Jeremy Bamber would never have been convicted at all, the jury would have seen through the dishonesty in the prosecutions / police investigation / case...

Neville Bamber did make the 3.26am call to the police, this fact was also not available at the time of the original trial, you only have to look at the wording of his call to realise that Neville was talking about his daughter, who had 'got hold of one of my guns',yet when Jeremy made his call to PC West at 3.36am, Jeremy told him that his father had said that Sheila or his sister 'had got the gun'...

There is a lot of information and new evidence about now which was not available at the time of the trial, evidence and information which the jury were entitled to hear or know about, but because the powers that be, sat and planned whhat evidence and information they would allow in, or keep out, the actual truth never got a fair hearing...

You know, it occurs to me that the police gave you a gift to end all gifts when they made such a pig's ear of the investigation. You're free now to bend it as you want it to be seen, backed up, always, by "there exists". Personally, I'm hesitant to believe 'there existed' -let alone STILL exists- ANYTHING likely to incriminate. I mean, WOULD it? THINK what could happen if such fell into the wrong hands IF it had ever/still existed.

However much we want something to be a certain way, irrelevant of the times we repeat it, saying it won't make it so, other than in the minds of others who want it to be so.

[mike tesko]

You know, it occurs to me that the police gave you a gift to end all gifts when they made such a pig's ear of the investigation. You're free now to bend it as you want it to be seen, backed up, always, by "there exists". Personally, I'm hesitant to believe 'there existed' -let alone STILL exists- ANYTHING likely to incriminate. I mean, WOULD it? THINK what could happen if such fell into the wrong hands IF it had ever/still existed.

However much we want something to be a certain way, irrelevant of the times we repeat it, saying it won't make it so, other than in the minds of others who want it to be so.

The jury were entitled to hear all this additional information and evidence, keeping it from them was a deception. Cops shot Sheila, they know they did, and I know they did! To say they made a pigs ear of the seige and the way they handled themselves once they got into the farmhouse is an understatement, they did more than just make mistakes, they were disrespectful to the bodies of the deceased, they tampered with the crime scenes downstairs in the kitchen and upstairs in the main bedroom, they moved the gun countless times, and created a fake photographic record, they tampered with the ballistics evidence, they introduced a fake sound moderator saturated in blood and paint, they edited, retyped and created false  witness statement contents like confetti, so you might say they made a pigs ear of their handling of the case, but to me they have acted like common criminals in uniform...

[Jane]

The jury were entitled to hear all this additional information and evidence, keeping it from them was a deception. Cops shot Sheila, they know they did, and I know they did! To say they made a pigs ear of the seige and the way they handled themselves once they got into the farmhouse is an understatement, they did more than just make mistakes, they were disrespectful to the bodies of the deceased, they tampered with the crime scenes downstairs in the kitchen and upstairs in the main bedroom, they moved the gun countless times, and created a fake photographic record, they tampered with the ballistics evidence, they introduced a fake sound moderator saturated in blood and paint, they edited, retyped and created false  witness statement contents like confetti, so you might say they made a pigs ear of their handling of the case, but to me they have acted like common criminals in uniform...

That's your interpretation of what happened....................but, like the rest of us, you didn't witness any of it.

[mike tesko]

That's your interpretation of what happened....................but, like the rest of us, you didn't witness any of it.

Its not my interpretation of it, as you put it, the facts are there in ink, police radio messages, timed events, two bodies, a dead male, and  a dead female, a murder, and a suicide, and the other three bodies upstairs - the jury were entitled to hear this evidence because it conflicts with the prosecution's account that only one body was found downstairs, with the other four bodies upstairs!!

Now, here was a truly bizarre contradiction involving the body count downstairs in the kitchen (two bodies, or one?) and upstairs in the bedrooms (three, or four?) - the jury had a right to be told about these discrepancies, and they would have been if the cops and the DPP had not deliberately concealed the contents of these police logs from the defence! It would have caused all sorts of questions to be asked of the police by the defence counsel and the trial judge and jury! For example, How do these discrepancies impact upon the fact that Jeremy Bamber the defendant was on trial for shooting dead his sister and staging her death scene upstairs on the main bedroom floor in possession of the gun?

Any normal person would soon realise that if there was any prospect that Sheila had been the second (female) body downstairs in the kitchen as referred to in a variety of different police radio messages as being dead downstairs in the kitchen at 7.35am, 7.37am, 7.38am, 7.42,am and 7.45am, that surely Jeremy could not have shot and killed his sister four hours previously upstairs in the main bedroom and staged her death scene there to fool cops into thinking Sheila had taken her own life, if Sheila was in the kitchen when cops entered!!!

[Caroline]

The jury were entitled to hear all this additional information and evidence, keeping it from them was a deception. Cops shot Sheila, they know they did, and I know they did! To say they made a pigs ear of the seige and the way they handled themselves once they got into the farmhouse is an understatement, they did more than just make mistakes, they were disrespectful to the bodies of the deceased, they tampered with the crime scenes downstairs in the kitchen and upstairs in the main bedroom, they moved the gun countless times, and created a fake photographic record, they tampered with the ballistics evidence, they introduced a fake sound moderator saturated in blood and paint, they edited, retyped and created false  witness statement contents like confetti, so you might say they made a pigs ear of their handling of the case, but to me they have acted like common criminals in uniform...

Every case is condensed.