Author Topic: Contact wounds with silencers  (Read 9651 times)

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Offline David1819

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2017, 10:59:PM »
There is clearly a circular bruise / abrasion around the lower entry wound on Sheila's neck, which has the same general characteristics and dimensions as though the muzzle end of a silencer has been pressed against the surface of the skin in the region where the first shot was inflicted! This has been verified by Mallinson and Smith, and shown to Ewen Smith who acknowledged the existence of the mark there! Extensive tests relating to this mark were undertaken at the then Birdwell Armoury (Barnsley) in 2003 / 2004, and similar marks / abrasions were captured in both film and video footage showing marks made when the end of a sound moderator was pressed into a volunteers arm and neck, obviously with the volunteer never at peril of being shot, and who did not die as a result of this event! Marks and abrasions might well show up differently or manifest differently dependant upon a number of factors, including whether or not the victim died as a result of such a contact shot involving use of a SM, or when someone survives the shot as occurred in Sheila Caffell's case!

Mike there is no silencer mark there. Despite your attempts to manipulate the photo.

Those who claimed they could see marks were "gun enthusiasts" as Andrew Hunter put it. There had no experience in pathology nor had they ever examined gun shot wounds. There opinion counts for nothing in this respect. Other than a recommendation they pay the optician a visit.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 10:59:PM by David1819 »

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2017, 10:10:AM »
Mike there is no silencer mark there. Despite your attempts to manipulate the photo.

Those who claimed they could see marks were "gun enthusiasts" as Andrew Hunter put it. There had no experience in pathology nor had they ever examined gun shot wounds. There opinion counts for nothing in this respect. Other than a recommendation they pay the optician a visit.

That is not true, there is a mark there, and both of these gun enthusiasts as you have put it,  have testified for the Crown in a murder case! Both of them have over 30 years experience in weaponry, ammunition and explosives, and the gun club and Armoury they had was Home Office approved! There is a mark there which was caused by the end of a silencer being pressed into a contact position there - Jeremy himself has already acknowledged there is a mark there, but he chooses to put this down to the traumatic of the bullet entering that part of her neck!

The mark of the silencer is there, you can pretend not to see it. The mark is not entirely visible as those shown in your examples, but I believe that is because the examples you have chosen to rely upon were inflicted or made when either the shot in question killed the victim outright, or the victim was already dead when the shot in question got inflicted! Additionally producing marks on a piece of dead pigskin is not the same as marks which will be made on a living and a surviving individual or as the case may be, a living or surviving animal! The mark around the lower neck wound in Sheila's neck in an obstacle the Jeremy and his team will have to try to overcome! Ewen Smith knows of the mark description around the lower wound site and although he was Jeremy's solicitor until the beginning of 2004, he is now a CCRC Commissionaire! No doubt the CCRC are also now mindful of the mark you are in denial of even existing!

Good luck in trying to debunk that feature of the evidence!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2017, 10:15:AM »
I have discovered some photos of contact wounds with silencers attached in real homicide cases.

There will be other photographs and images which do not show such marks as clearly, despite a silencer having been used and in a contact position at the time a shot was fired - some of them no doubt will match the mark visible around Sheila Caffell's lower neck wound!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Adam

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2017, 10:45:AM »
No one is disputing that Sheila was shot last, received a contact shot & was shot in an area highly vulnerable to back splatter as stated by Malcolm Fletcher.

Although there was no blood or paint on the rifle nozzle, David is saying Sheila received the neck contact shot from the rifle nozzle. The evidence presented at court being wrong.

The blood & paint ended up on the silencer after the relatives went into a bucket of water & pulled out soaking underwear. Then attempted to put any remaining embedded period blood into a silencer. Revolting I know. 

David refuses to say whether the relatives scratched the aga without seeing the crime scene photos or answer several other questions on this. Ditto Buddy. 
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2017, 10:52:AM »
Naturally there has never been any dispute about Sheila being the last to be shot. Jeremy wasn't a complete idiot. He'd have known that if he planned to have the crime look like murder/suicide, the 'suicide' HAD to have been seen to have died last.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2017, 11:40:AM »
I was present at Birdwell Armoury when tests were done to try to recreate mark impressions on the skin of a living person - the weapon used was a model 525 anshuzt semi-automatic rifle, fitted with a 17 baffled Parker hale silencer. The model / victims name was Amy Holland. The weapon handler was Glen Smith / Keith Mallinson...

These experiments and the results which were produced on this occasion were captured on film and video footage, and provided physical proof that the end of  silencer had been pressed against the victims skin and left a visible impression there, comparable to the mark which is present around the lower wound in Sheila Caffell's neck! The chief differences were, however, that in the experiments conducted no shot was fired in that contact position!

This gave cause to consider the implication of a duplication of such a mark around the lower wound site in Sheila Caffell's neck, albeit accompanying a shot?

Smith and Mallinson were mindful of Malcolm Fletcher's range tests, and his findings in relation to the distance of the muzzle of the weapon from the surface of the skin at the time that lower shot was taken (if my recollection serves me correctly, Fletcher stated that the shot had been a near contact one, within 3" or so). Smith and Mallinson did there own range tests at Birdwell Armoury, using a model 525 anshuzt rifle, a 17 baffled Parker hale silencer, and Ely .22 LR subsonic hollow point ammunition. These tests ranged from contact with the target paper, 1", 3", 6", and 9" or so. These tests were done on two separate pieces of target paper, one piece of paper for all the shots minus a silencer, and another piece of target paper for the series of range shots where a silencer was used!

After the tests were completed they examined the results against the lower  bullet entry wound in Sheila's neck!

They concluded that in fact the lower neck wound in this instance had been a contact shot!

These conclusions were reported to Ewen Smith at his Birmingham offices!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2017, 11:58:AM »
No one is disputing that Sheila was shot last, received a contact shot & was shot in an area highly vulnerable to back splatter as stated by Malcolm Fletcher.

Although there was no blood or paint on the rifle nozzle, David is saying Sheila received the neck contact shot from the rifle nozzle. The evidence presented at court being wrong.

There was blood found on 'the muzzle end and the fore site' of the anshuzt rifle  as confirmed by reference to Malcolm Fletcher's handwritten notes (signed and dated)!, Albeit, neither Smith or Mallinson ever saw these notes!  Nevertheless, they concluded that the lower neck wound had been a contact or a very close contact shot!

They had reservations about the shot having been fired through the silencer, however, but at the time offered no opinion regarding the presence of the circular mark around the lower entry wound which they both agreed had been made by a silencer having been pressed against the surface of the skin!

No further work was undertaken because Ewen became a CCRC Commissionaire!

However, Smith, Mallinson and myself did have conversations regarding circumstances of how that mark got to be around the lower wound hole without the muzzle of it being in direct contact with the surface of Sheila's neck when the shot got discharged and received!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2017, 12:33:PM »
There was blood found on 'the muzzle end and the fore site' of the anshuzt rifle  as confirmed by reference to Malcolm Fletcher's handwritten notes (signed and dated)!, Albeit, neither Smith or Mallinson ever saw these notes!  Nevertheless, they concluded that the lower neck wound had been a contact or a very close contact shot!

They had reservations about the shot having been fired through the silencer, however, but at the time offered no opinion regarding the presence of the circular mark around the lower entry wound which they both agreed had been made by a silencer having been pressed against the surface of the skin!

No further work was undertaken because Ewen became a CCRC Commissionaire!

However, Smith, Mallinson and myself did have conversations regarding circumstances of how that mark got to be around the lower wound hole without the muzzle of it being in direct contact with the surface of Sheila's neck when the shot got discharged and received!

During informal discussions regarding the above, it was postulated that at some point prior to the discharge of the bullet to the lower neck wound, that the muzzle of a silencer could have been in contact with the surface of the skin just prior to the shot being fired, but that just prior to that shot being discharged that the end of the silencer moved away from the surface of the skin and was no longer in contact with the skin when that shot did get fired (hence why the shot inflicted had been a near contact shot)...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2017, 12:50:PM »
That is not true, there is a mark there, and both of these gun enthusiasts as you have put it,  have testified for the Crown in a murder case! Both of them have over 30 years experience in weaponry, ammunition and explosives, and the gun club and Armoury they had was Home Office approved! There is a mark there which was caused by the end of a silencer being pressed into a contact position there - Jeremy himself has already acknowledged there is a mark there, but he chooses to put this down to the traumatic of the bullet entering that part of her neck!

The mark of the silencer is there, you can pretend not to see it. The mark is not entirely visible as those shown in your examples, but I believe that is because the examples you have chosen to rely upon were inflicted or made when either the shot in question killed the victim outright, or the victim was already dead when the shot in question got inflicted! Additionally producing marks on a piece of dead pigskin is not the same as marks which will be made on a living and a surviving individual or as the case may be, a living or surviving animal! The mark around the lower neck wound in Sheila's neck in an obstacle the Jeremy and his team will have to try to overcome! Ewen Smith knows of the mark description around the lower wound site and although he was Jeremy's solicitor until the beginning of 2004, he is now a CCRC Commissionaire! No doubt the CCRC are also now mindful of the mark you are in denial of even existing!

Good luck in trying to debunk that feature of the evidence!

I already have. The phantom mark cannot be seen by anyone.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2017, 01:11:PM »
I already have. The phantom mark cannot be seen by anyone.

Of course it can, stop trying to be ridiculous!
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 01:28:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2017, 01:13:PM »
I have discovered some photos of contact wounds with silencers attached in real homicide cases.

The marks shown in these images of yours would not show up like that if just before discharge of bullet through the silencer the muzzle end of the silencer was no longer in a direct contact position with the surface of the skin, whether or not the victim was dead or alive!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2017, 01:31:PM »
The muzzle of a silencer clearly pressed against the neck of Sheila Caffell' just prior to the first non fatal shot got fired! However, moments before that shot got fired the muzzle of the silencer was detached from the surface of the skin and then the first non fatal shot was fired!!!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2017, 01:37:PM »
The muzzle of a silencer clearly pressed against the neck of Sheila Caffell' just prior to the first non fatal shot got fired! However, moments before that shot got fired the muzzle of the silencer was detached from the surface of the skin and then the first non fatal shot was fired!!!

The characteristics and dimensions of the phantom mark as you call it, has clear significance when it comes to the circumstances surrounding how Sheila received that first shot!

I shall now proceed to explain that significance...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2017, 01:43:PM »
Soon...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Contact wounds with silencers
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2017, 01:44:PM »
I believe that the muzzle end of a silencer can be shown to have been 'pressed full face on' against 'that' part of Sheila Caffell's neck!
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 01:45:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...