Author Topic: why full disclosure is so important  (Read 4535 times)

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Offline nugnug

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Re: why full disclosure is so important
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2017, 06:29:PM »

Not according to Google, he isn't. If I'm reading it correctly, a wife is fully entitled to keep to herself an inheritance she's the recipient of.

so why when you divorce you can make a claim for half of your partners estate.

your wife making a lot of monet still counts as having something to gain something to gain does just not hust mean financel gain for your personally.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 06:32:PM by nugnug »

Offline Jane

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Re: why full disclosure is so important
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2017, 06:33:PM »
so why when you divorce you can make a claim for half of your partners estate.

Because the divorce laws on financial distribution are different.

Offline nugnug

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Re: why full disclosure is so important
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2017, 06:35:PM »
Because the divorce laws on financial distribution are different.

had they got divorced he could of cliamed some of that money as his.

Offline Jane

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Re: why full disclosure is so important
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2017, 06:42:PM »
had they got divorced he could of cliamed some of that money as his.

But they weren't getting divorced. It may also be worth noting, as it had been a recent inheritance, that had the benefactor -in this case, his mother in law- wished to bestow a monetary bequest on him, they'd have had every opportunity to do so.

Offline lookout

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Re: why full disclosure is so important
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2017, 06:44:PM »
Yes nugs, probably an end result of 40-60 to her.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: why full disclosure is so important
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2017, 07:22:PM »
I agree 100% that Rolf Harris has still rightly been convicted of 10 offences.
My point was that in relation to the 11th charge an independent witness made up his whole story.
I made the point to show how easily it happens.

In the other case i highlighted the facts appear to be that a girl kept pestering the poor bloke for sex and when he rejected her - she made up allegations that could have seen him in prison for 12 years - a case of "if i can't have you then no one can" for sure - some people do react like this to being rejected.

I never ever forget the true nature of the Bamber murders - apart from others it was a double child murder.

I for one do not yet accept that the circumstantial evidence against Jeremy Bamber is overwhelming.

If the silencer was not used then Sheila could well have done it - therefore Neville could well have phoned Jeremy.

What circumstantial evidence apart from the above convinces you beyond doubt ?

One of the big mysteries to this case for me - and i suspect others - is that the glove seems to fit Sheila very well - but equally the glove appears to fit Jeremy.

It seems that strangely they were both fairly likely to have done it.

But it could only have been one of them.

Against Sheila is the fact that she told her psychiatrist that she had thoughts of killing her children - and i do not believe anyone else would have known she had told him this - and the significance of Psalm 51 seems again to place it on her.

I also have no problem believing that Sheila showered after the murders before killing herself - as a form of ritual cleaning.

On the other hand there is good reason to suspect Jeremy.

A very baffling case indeed as i am sure many forum members will agree.
In a previous post you mention body language, tone of voice and other verbal or non-verbal cues which influenced your decision to find Bamber innocent on the balance of probabilities, or enough doubt cast on the evidence to secure his release.

If you look at the Bamber family photographs over the years you will see a boy who was unused to be made a fuss of or spent time with (boy with hose), then someone who was accustoming to family life (boy with Sheila, mother and dog and registry office), then we proceed to the rather strange Jubilee photograph, where Jeremy has taken on June's colouring, possibly rationalizing that to side with her will work out better for him in the long run than hard taskmaster Nevill, yet beginning to drift apart from all, as evidenced by posture.

Post-murders we have the arrogance exhibited to Barbara Wilson as he barks orders from the swivel chair, feet placed on desk, his coquettishness evinced from the back of a Police van, his drugged up self, his incredulity vis-à- vis Police shackled in handcuffs. One notes the reports of questioning answered in sing-song passionless tone and discomfort as pertinent queries are rebuffed with "no comment" replies too frequent for my liking.

The evidence that Jeremy hated his parents is overwhelming. It comes not only from Julie, but James Richards, Brett Collins and Chris Nevill, of whom only the former gave evidence at trial. This fact is central in gaining an insight into the murders, because once you realize that his parents had controlled his every action, made every decision and influenced every outcome almost from birth until his early twenties you will begin to understand why these crimes occurred.

Of course we can't cover twenty years in one paragraph. I have no wish to excuse or to mitigate, but possibly to understand a little more. Here was a boy who was removed from central London and deposited in a rural, bucolic environment. He was uprooted at eight years old to another countryside milieu, where his whole raison d'etre was that he was special because his family was moneyed, not because he was loved.

As he grows older his parents' stranglehold becomes ever looser as Gresham's and its memories become a thing of the past and Jeremy mixes with his own crowd at Colchester and London. But Nevill and June still control the purse strings and Jeremy feels the dilemma: shackled to people who were always at best intimate strangers, yet who now give him the ultimatum of leaving Suzette or face disinheritance.

Jeremy sees the mementoes of Nevill's past cluttered on the office table, amongst them the extortionate bills for Sheila's recent stay at St. Andrews. He reasons that she may well fall ill again, there's the mooted allowance for her and possible private school fees for the twins, who are nearing the age when he himself was unfeelingly packed off to school. He also resents the way his parents dote on their grandchildren and cannot work through the reason for the discrepancy, other than he is superior to them and is determined his will will prevail.


« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 07:36:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline nugnug

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Re: why full disclosure is so important
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2017, 07:41:PM »
But they weren't getting divorced. It may also be worth noting, as it had been a recent inheritance, that had the benefactor -in this case, his mother in law- wished to bestow a monetary bequest on him, they'd have had every opportunity to do so.

so still counts as somthing to gain.

and as i keep to trying to gain does not mean will you persnally benfit financailly your wife or kids benfiting from somthing still vounts as you having somthing to gain.

Offline Jane

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Re: why full disclosure is so important
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2017, 07:42:PM »
It might be seen that Jeremy, as soon as he got over the shock of being 'sent away' carried on making attempts to GET away, each time being called/persuaded/coerced/bribed/threatened back -to a 'career' he clearly was neither cut out for, nor enjoyed- by duty/some time in the future inheritance................but not love. He didn't have many options. Walk away and allow Sheila and her boys to have, what he felt was, his entitlement, or hatch a plan to to walk away with it all.

Offline Jane

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Re: why full disclosure is so important
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2017, 07:47:PM »
so still counts as somthing to gain.

and as i keep to trying to gain does not mean will you persnally benfit financailly your wife or kids benfiting from somthing still vounts as you having somthing to gain.

If the wife decides to hang onto it, the husband gets nothing. She is free to distribute it as she wishes, OUTSIDE of the family if she chooses. He can't force his wife to hand any of it over, unless they get divorced, in which case he can put in a claim.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: why full disclosure is so important
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2017, 07:51:PM »
It might be seen that Jeremy, as soon as he got over the shock of being 'sent away' carried on making attempts to GET away, each time being called/persuaded/coerced/bribed/threatened back -to a 'career' he clearly was neither cut out for, nor enjoyed- by duty/some time in the future inheritance................but not love. He didn't have many options. Walk away and allow Sheila and her boys to have, what he felt was, his entitlement, or hatch a plan to to walk away with it all.
I agree Jane and I think he probably would have shared the inheritance with Sheila but for deprecatory remarks she made against his person which were symptoms of her illness, not her innate personality. He justified the slaughter as mercy killings and enabling Colin to find regular employment to disburden himself from the millstones around his neck. Any other school one would have thought, at least in modern times, would have argued the toss with any human owning such cynical Darwinist views, yet we have to remember Gresham's had a reputation for providing cadets to the Army and mollification in any quarter may well have been discouraged.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 07:52:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline lookout

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Re: why full disclosure is so important
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2017, 10:12:PM »
This non-disclosure has really opened up a can of worms now.

Offline maggie

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Re: why full disclosure is so important
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2017, 07:18:AM »
I have removed some posts from this sight. Please stick to the thread subject

Offline Jane

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Re: why full disclosure is so important
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2017, 08:06:AM »
I agree 100% that Rolf Harris has still rightly been convicted of 10 offences.
My point was that in relation to the 11th charge an independent witness made up his whole story.
I made the point to show how easily it happens.

In the other case i highlighted the facts appear to be that a girl kept pestering the poor bloke for sex and when he rejected her - she made up allegations that could have seen him in prison for 12 years - a case of "if i can't have you then no one can" for sure - some people do react like this to being rejected.

I never ever forget the true nature of the Bamber murders - apart from others it was a double child murder.

I for one do not yet accept that the circumstantial evidence against Jeremy Bamber is overwhelming.

If the silencer was not used then Sheila could well have done it - therefore Neville could well have phoned Jeremy.

What circumstantial evidence apart from the above convinces you beyond doubt ?

One of the big mysteries to this case for me - and i suspect others - is that the glove seems to fit Sheila very well - but equally the glove appears to fit Jeremy.

It seems that strangely they were both fairly likely to have done it.

But it could only have been one of them.

Against Sheila is the fact that she told her psychiatrist that she had thoughts of killing her children - and i do not believe anyone else would have known she had told him this - and the significance of Psalm 51 seems again to place it on her.

I also have no problem believing that Sheila showered after the murders before killing herself - as a form of ritual cleaning.

On the other hand there is good reason to suspect Jeremy.

A very baffling case indeed as i am sure many forum members will agree.


Such an irony, don't you think, that being convicted, on 10 counts, of sexual offences, he stamps his feet about his conviction for an 11th. Does being found to be not guilty of it it vindicate the other 10?

Believe me, I hear what you say about the Bamber crime being ONLY committed by Jeremy or Sheila, but I also think it's something which Jeremy, rather than Sheila, would have taken account of, ie even if he was suspected, he'd be given the benefit of doubt because of Sheila's mental history. What Sheila said of her children, she said in 1983. In 1985, whilst she claimed that her relationship with her mother had improved, she seems to have said nothing more about family or children -I believe Dr Ferguson said she no longer seemed to have the same fears? I don't believe that Sheila had the financial motives/needs that Jeremy did. She may not have had an affluent existence, but it was possibly enough.She muddled her way through life with the help of others and the ongoing financial support of her parents. Her expectations seemed rather different from Jeremy's. I simply don't believe this to have been a spur of the moment crime. I think it was something which had it's inception way back and had been years in the planning. To lay it at Sheila's feet appears to require too many points of "She may have................." to make her culpability feasible.

Offline Adam

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Re: why full disclosure is so important
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2017, 10:19:AM »
Full disclosure has been supplied on this case.

Because everything released shows Bamber is guilty, the only option is to claim there are hidden documents.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: why full disclosure is so important
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2017, 02:00:PM »
Can you prove that full disclosure was given ?