CT's 'Verbatim Project'.

[lookout]

For schizophreenia it was the RIGHT drug and ex nurse or not, you are no more qualified to make the above claim than anyone else on this forum.

The right drug for schizophrenia-----yes,but I've never believed Sheila to have been schizophrenic.

[Jane]

I'm sorry Caroline,sedative or not,if it was the wrong medication ( a possibility ) and/or the wrong dose, ( another possibility ) then its effects or non-effects would have had a negative affect on Sheila,most positively.
I actually know quite a bit about medications and its effects on different individuals. No two people's reactions are alike as you should know. One mans meat is another mans poison.

Statins for instance are life-savers,but in some,are killers. I actually believe them to do good given the RIGHT dose.

I noted that Dr Ferguson said that the dose was reduced -during her second hospital stay- but her symptoms returned and the dose was increased, It probably explains the high dose she left hospital with. I also noted that, despite Freddie's (unfounded) fears, a veritable army of different people were in the flat that night and not once did Sheila, despite he fear and confusion, attempt harm to anyone other than her own person.

[lookout]

I noted that Dr Ferguson said that the dose was reduced -during her second hospital stay- but her symptoms returned and the dose was increased, It probably explains the high dose she left hospital with. I also noted that, despite Freddie's (unfounded) fears, a veritable army of different people were in the flat that night and not once did Sheila, despite he fear and confusion, attempt harm to anyone other than her own person.

Sheila blew hot and cold whether on medication or not,something which ANYONE can and does do but it doesn't mean to say that they are sufferers of schizophrenia. Chronic depression has the SAME symptoms as does bi-polar.
Sheila had a normal life and if she'd kept away from her mother she'd still be alive.There was nothing wrong with the girl that couldn't have been sorted,properly. It was a psychological disorder that should have been rectified and from what I can gather it involved her erratic behaviour,which wouldn't necessarily have meant a schizophrenic condition as she'd appeared rational  for most of the time.
Nobody understood the girl unfortunately.   

[lookout]

What is the tip of the iceberg is the FACT that people's medications are killing them !!
Thousands die each year--------so what does that tell you ?

[Jane]

What is the tip of the iceberg is the FACT that people's medications are killing them !!
Thousands die each year--------so what does that tell you ?

That where there are human beings there is always error. However, we MUST balance your claim against the FACT that MILLIONS of lives are improved/saved because of medication.

[Jane]

I noted that Dr Ferguson said that the dose was reduced -during her second hospital stay- but her symptoms returned and the dose was increased, It probably explains the high dose she left hospital with. I also noted that, despite Freddie's (unfounded) fears, a veritable army of different people were in the flat that night and not once did Sheila, despite he fear and confusion, attempt harm to anyone other than her own person.

The other thing which came to my notice was the frequent use of the words "childish" and "immaturity" from different people. I noticed, too, that despite Sheila's undoubted love for her boys -or did she, perhaps regard them as her possessions, dolls? rather like June may have seen her?- she was still searching for some sort of career (like Jeremy, she actually had never qualified for anything) usually something way beyond her capabilities. Did she see it as de rigueur that others should care for her children leaving her free -like other girls of her background- to have a career or become a socialite?

[Jane]

I noted that Dr Ferguson said that the dose was reduced -during her second hospital stay- but her symptoms returned and the dose was increased, It probably explains the high dose she left hospital with. I also noted that, despite Freddie's (unfounded) fears, a veritable army of different people were in the flat that night and not once did Sheila, despite he fear and confusion, attempt harm to anyone other than her own person.

Sheila blew hot and cold whether on medication or not,something which ANYONE can and does do but it doesn't mean to say that they are sufferers of schizophrenia. Chronic depression has the SAME symptoms as does bi-polar.
Sheila had a normal life and if she'd kept away from her mother she'd still be alive.There was nothing wrong with the girl that couldn't have been sorted,properly. It was a psychological disorder that should have been rectified and from what I can gather it involved her erratic behaviour,which wouldn't necessarily have meant a schizophrenic condition as she'd appeared rational  for most of the time.
Nobody understood the girl unfortunately.

You have failed to address the point I raised. ie Dr Ferguson had tried reducing her meds whilst she was in hospital but as her symptoms returned she was put back on the higher dose.

Neither I nor you, as we're not clairvoyant, can say what Sheila's life would have been like under other circumstances. I certainly don't believe you to have greater understanding of her, than others, and DEFINITELY NOT her doctor.

[lookout]

You have failed to address the point I raised. ie Dr Ferguson had tried reducing her meds whilst she was in hospital but as her symptoms returned she was put back on the higher dose.

Neither I nor you, as we're not clairvoyant, can say what Sheila's life would have been like under other circumstances. I certainly don't believe you to have greater understanding of her, than others, and DEFINITELY NOT her doctor.

Anyone's " symptoms " would reappear in hospital which aren't exactly welcoming places at the best of times. What " symptoms " were these,btw ? Obviously a knock-out drug would do the trick,but was it necessary ? They didn't go into any reason why she had her outbursts ? At least I don't remember ever reading about " treating the cause  ?" So how can you treat something if you don't know the cause ? That being the case then you can dish out anything to keep the patient quiet ?

[Jane]

Anyone's " symptoms " would reappear in hospital which aren't exactly welcoming places at the best of times. What " symptoms " were these,btw ? Obviously a knock-out drug would do the trick,but was it necessary ? They didn't go into any reason why she had her outbursts ? At least I don't remember ever reading about " treating the cause  ?" So how can you treat something if you don't know the cause ? That being the case then you can dish out anything to keep the patient quiet ?

I suggest you listen to the actor who's reading Dr F's witness statement to find out what her original symptoms were. On the other hand, don't bother as you hold yourself up as having greater knowledge -despite never having met her- than he, of her condition. Lengthy and ongoing psychotherapy would probably have revealed the cause of her depression and any other illness resulting from it but psychotherapy seems not to have been generally used back then. Consultants were probably to busy with other patients to spend any more time than necessary on individuals.

[lookout]

I suggest you listen to the actor who's reading Dr F's witness statement to find out what her original symptoms were. On the other hand, don't bother as you hold yourself up as having greater knowledge -despite never having met her- than he, of her condition. Lengthy and ongoing psychotherapy would probably have revealed the cause of her depression and any other illness resulting from it but psychotherapy seems not to have been generally used back then. Consultants were probably to busy with other patients to spend any more time than necessary on individuals.

They were never too busy in the private sector !

My whole argument is that I hate the fact that schizophrenia is given as an excuse in this case. One in which EVERYONE has used just because a psychiatrist said so. Did Sheila have ALL the symptoms of this illness ? We DON'T know,do we ? Her records are still being withheld.
These people,like anyone else,aren't infallible .

[Caroline]

The right drug for schizophrenia-----yes,but I've never believed Sheila to have been schizophrenic.

That's your prerogative and opinion, not a professional diagnosis

[lookout]

That's your prerogative and opinion, not a professional diagnosis

Which I'm entitled to ?

[Jane]

Which I'm entitled to ?

Indeed you are. I don't believe anyone is denying you that right. Free speech and all that? However, you're perhaps a little TOO free of speech? THAT is objectionable. YOU were a nurse, was that charge nurse, staff nurse, sister, matron, OR simply a nurse, and for how long? Splendid, hands-on job, but NOT a doctor, even LESS, a consultant with untold YEARS of hands-on experience.

[Caroline]

Which I'm entitled to ?

Of course

[Caroline]

Indeed you are. I don't believe anyone is denying you that right. Free speech and all that? However, you're perhaps a little TOO free of speech? THAT is objectionable. YOU were a nurse, was that charge nurse, staff nurse, sister, matron, OR simply a nurse, and for how long? Splendid, hands-on job, but NOT a doctor, even LESS, a consultant with untold YEARS of hands-on experience.

And no hands on experience of Sheila.