How it started

[Kaldin]

The point is that before the murders, what is the evidence that Jeremy hated farming and hated his family? We have some vague notion that he told RB that he could kill his parent, some vague accusation that Nevill was afraid of him, and some very negative comments from the relatives generally - after the event of course.

[lookout]

Usually violence goes with hatred or vice-versa,but because there's no sign of either,where would anyone get the " oomph " to go ahead and slaughter 5 people ? If you weren't that way inclined ? And the man isn't insane either.
Those are three driving forces towards any act of murder.

[guest2181]

Yes, if they think he's guilty. They have to think that don't they because money in itself wouldn't be a good enough motive.

I don't agree. I don't think the two are connected.

I think some posters may lay it on thick, as a character assassination, but the reality is, the act of murder is bad enough.

[Kaldin]

I don't agree. I don't think the two are connected.

I think some posters may lay it on thick, as a character assassination, but the reality is, the act of murder is bad enough.

Do you think that someone who cares for his family would shoot them in cold blood, fight with his father and bludgeon him, etc, just to get money?

You see, I think that those who think Jeremy is guilty have to come up with another explanation - ie, that he hated his family and he hated farming.

[Jane]

The point is that before the murders, what is the evidence that Jeremy hated farming and hated his family? We have some vague notion that he told RB that he could kill his parent, some vague accusation that Nevill was afraid of him, and some very negative comments from the relatives generally - after the event of course.

Were's the evidence that he cared for either?

[guest2181]

Do you think that someone who cares for his family would shoot them in cold blood, fight with his father and bludgeon him, etc, just to get money?

You see, I think that those who think Jeremy is guilty have to come up with another explanation - ie, that he hated his family and he hated farming.

I think it's a chicken and egg situation.

I think people who believe JB to have committed mass murder, likely believe that JB had not particularly love for the lives which he ended. Whether that manifested itself in the form of hatred, or as suggested by Caroline that he simply didn't care for them either way, I do not know.

I think it's quite reasonable for people to think that a premeditated murderer didn't care for his victims.

I don't believe hatred was the motive, but if present, it didn't act as a voice of reason.

[guest2181]

Do you think that someone who cares for his family would shoot them in cold blood, fight with his father and bludgeon him, etc, just to get money?

I think the act of murder shows that he DIDN'T care for his family.

[Kaldin]

Were's the evidence that he cared for either?

Where is the evidence that he didn't, other than what Julie said?

[Kaldin]

I think the act of murder shows that he DIDN'T care for his family.

So you're working backwards. You have no evidence that there were problems before the murders, you're just assuming that he hated his family because he killed them.

[Adam]

The point is that before the murders, what is the evidence that Jeremy hated farming and hated his family? We have some vague notion that he told RB that he could kill his parent, some vague accusation that Nevill was afraid of him, and some very negative comments from the relatives generally - after the event of course.

James Richards.
Mary Mugford.
Julie Mugford.
Ann Eaton.
Barbara Wilson.

You know he hated farming. He went travelling & preferred to work in Little Chef & Sloppy Joes before reluctantly working on the farm.

[Jane]

I think it's a chicken and egg situation.

I think people who believe JB to have committed mass murder, likely believe that JB had not particularly love for the lives which he ended. Whether that manifested itself in the form of hatred, or as suggested by Caroline that he simply didn't care for them either way, I do not know.

I think it's quite reasonable for people to think that a premeditated murderer didn't care for his victims.

I don't believe hatred was the motive, but if present, it didn't act as a voice of reason.

I think what he hated was that each represented an impediment to him getting his hands on what he wanted.

[Kaldin]

James Richards.
Mary Mugford.
Julie Mugford.
Ann Eaton.
Barbara Wilson.

You know he hated farming. He went travelling & preferred to work in Little Chef & Sloppy Joes before reluctantly working on the farm.

If he hated it, why did he not approach his parents and talk to them about an alternative? He knew about the land they bought - with a view to selling it to Ann Eaton later. Why did he not ask if they would give him money to start a wine bar or something? He knew people in London - why did he not go there and try to find a job?

[guest2181]

So you're working backwards. You have no evidence that there were problems before the murders, you're just assuming that he hated his family because he killed them.

I'm not making any assumptions and have not indicated that I know or believe JB hated his family.

There is clearly a great deal of hearsay which suggests he didn't care for them.

What I am saying, is that a person doesn't usually commit premeditated mass murder whilst caring greatly for their victims.

It is a conclusion formed by his actions, not necessarily the cause of his actions.

[Kaldin]

I think that what he might not have liked was all this business about relatives being joined at the hip, so to speak. It was all very involved with shares in this and shares in that, probably resulting in squabbles between them and attempts at oneupmanship. He could maybe have got involved in Nevill's interests in Guildford instead?

[Adam]

If he hated it, why did he not approach his parents and talk to them about an alternative? He knew about the land they bought - with a view to selling it to Ann Eaton later. Why did he not ask if they would give him money to start a wine bar or something? He knew people in London - why did he not go there and try to find a job?

Nevill give him money to start a wine bar ? Nevill would know where that money would quickly go.

He did get other jobs. In Little Chef & Sloppy Joes.