Bullets fired and reloading

[Kaldin]

How could the killer have shot June and the cartridge end up on the landing though?

[Kaldin]

I was reading the court testimony of Mr Fletcher, and the issue of the missing cartridge case from the kitchen came up. One suggestion was that after Nevill was shot four times in the kitchen, the last cartridge jammed and was only ejected when the killer went back upstairs. Is that feasible?

If so, what is the other evidence that Nevill was shot on the stairs?

Also, the case was found quite near the main bedroom, which would suggest that the killer was heading for the main bedroom when he/she went back upstairs.

[guest2181]

How could the killer have shot June and the cartridge end up on the landing though?

By being stood in the doorway facing in to the bedroom maybe.

[guest154]

By being stood in the doorway facing in to the bedroom maybe.

Position of the shooter. Cartridge rolling. Cartridge being kicked. Lot's of variables really. But June WAS shot and the casing was there. Not too sure it really matters.

[Kaldin]

It matters because it would mean that Nevill was not shot four times in the kitchen.

[guest7363]

Position of the shooter. Cartridge rolling. Cartridge being kicked. Lot's of variables really. But June WAS shot and the casing was there. Not too sure it really matters.

Quite true Matt, it’s impossible to say who was shot first or from where, the raid team could easily have kicked anything about unknowingly, we do know they were close range shots, the two shells that interest me are the ones found either side of Sheila, one to the left and one to the right.  The rifle jamming as I stated before could also have played a part who knows?   Welcome back by the way.

[Kaldin]

There were three cartridges found in the kitchen. I previously thought there was a further cartridge on the stairs leading from the kitchen, but I can find no reference to this other than in the appeal document. If Nevill was shot four times in the kitchen, where is the fourth cartridge?

[guest2181]

It matters because it would mean that Nevill was not shot four times in the kitchen.

That's not possible though.

He could not have 'received one of the instantly fatal shots, anywhere else.

Either a shell case was somehow relocated, or a shot in the bedroom missed and a case in the kitchen disappeared.

[lookout]

Mike discussed this " missing bullet case " in a thread " Exit Wound Conundrum " in 2011.

[Kaldin]

That's not possible though.

He could not have 'received one of the instantly fatal shots, anywhere else.

Either a shell case was somehow relocated, or a shot in the bedroom missed and a case in the kitchen disappeared.

I agree with you Hartley. The only explanations are that Mr Vanezis was mistaken about the shots to Nevill's head (unlikely), or that one of the cartridges was moved upstairs by mistake. As you say, there could have been a shot upstairs which missed, and the cartridge in the kitchen disappeared. I think it's imporant because it has a bearing on the number of bullets in the magazine and/or the issue of whether or not Nevill was shot on the stairs - something which a lot of people seem to believe.

[Kaldin]

Mike discussed this " missing bullet case " in a thread " Exit Wound Conundrum " in 2011.

Thanks lookout. That's a long time ago, and I probably discussed it myself but I've forgotten.

[lookout]

Mike discussed this " missing bullet case " in a thread " Exit Wound Conundrum " in 2011.

Mike had suggested it could have been a .22 pellet ? That's if June had been shot 8 times instead of seven ?
The shotgun,which had been found upstairs had Sheila's fingerprints on it. The graze on Sheila's abdomen ?

[guest2181]

I agree with you Hartley. The only explanations are that Mr Vanezis was mistaken about the shots to Nevill's head (unlikely), or that one of the cartridges was moved upstairs by mistake. As you say, there could have been a shot upstairs which missed, and the cartridge in the kitchen disappeared. I think it's imporant because it has a bearing on the number of bullets in the magazine and/or the issue of whether or not Nevill was shot on the stairs - something which a lot of people seem to believe.

The lack of blood staining is still an issue for me. Other than two bloodstains on the carpet immediately outside the master bedroom door, and a blood stain on the wall next to the hall door leading in to the kitchen, there isn't any.

[lookout]

Hartley this lack of blood had baffled me until I saw the rolled-up rug in the bedroom. I gathered it had been rolled/folded and put to one side because it would have been saturated and not ideal for officers to have walked on. This rug/carpet would have originally covered a large area of the room,such as demonstrated in Sheila's room.

[guest2181]

Hartley this lack of blood had baffled me until I saw the rolled-up rug in the bedroom. I gathered it had been rolled/folded and put to one side because it would have been saturated and not ideal for officers to have walked on. This rug/carpet would have originally covered a large area of the room,such as demonstrated in Sheila's room.

I don't believe that. I think you've probably made an error.