Sheila living her life according to the bible. Sources required.

[Adam]

I am a bit busy - I will be back to answer every ones questions as soon as possible ...

The relevance of Psalm 51 can be accepted by people who believe Jeremy is guilty and by people who consider Jeremy innocent without it changing their position.

That version of the Bible found has I believe 960 pages.

Psalm 51 is the only page that can give comfort to a murderer.

See the link Steve put up again and read it carefully.

The relevance of Psalm 51 was used as evidence in that murder trial.

It is the only passage (as the guy says in that case) to give comfort to a murderer

There is only a 1 in 960 chance that the bloodstains were on that page by coincidence.

You choose whether you think it was open at Psalm 51 because of Jeremy or because of Sheila

But please look at this very carefully and accept it was blood stained at Psalm 51 for a reason.

After you have considered it very carefully I would be interested to hear what every one thinks ...

Guilters do not need to give sources to back up Bamber putting the bible on Sheila's arm. It was simply a plant from a man found guilty at court.

Supporters need to -

Provide sources that Sheila had the capability to instantly calm down between 3.10am - 3.48am,  from a psychotic multiple murder. Then be composed enough to collect, open & read another persons bible.

Provide sources that Sheila was very knowledgable about the bible. Knowing a specific page to go to in someone else's bible.

Provide sources that Sheila was a passionate reader of the bible & had been living her life according to it.


So far nothing has been supplied.

[David1819]

Guilters do not need to give sources to back up Bamber putting the bible on Sheila's arm. It was simply a plant from a man found guilty at court.

Supporters need to -

Provide sources that Sheila had the capability to instantly calm down between 3.10am - 3.48am,  from a psychotic multiple murder. Then be composed enough to collect, open & read another persons bible.

Provide sources that Sheila was very knowledgable about the bible. Knowing a specific page to go to in someone else's bible.

Provide sources that Sheila was a passionate reader of the bible & had been living her life according to it.


So far nothing has been supplied.

Ah that old tactic. Ignore evidence presented then demand impossible evidence.

[Adam]

Ah that old tactic. Ignore evidence presented then demand impossible evidence.

Why is it impossible to provide sources that Sheila -

1)

Was very knowledgable about the bible & knew specific pages to go to.


2)

Was a dedicated & passionate bible reader & had lived for months & years according to the bible.


3)

Would have been able to calm down sufficiently between 3.10am - 3.48am to be able to find, open & read the bible.


Sheila must be one of the most investigated women ever.

[Caroline]

Ah that old tactic. Ignore evidence presented then demand impossible evidence.

You should know that tactic well, you invented it.

[Steve_uk]

June may have told both Sheila & Bamber about religious matters when they were children. But not murder/suicide.

It didn't do Bamber any good. He wasn't religious in the slightest & called June a 'religious maniac'.

Sheila wasn't too keen on June either. She shot her 7 times as she slept. There is so far no evidence Sheila was a dedicated & passionate bible reader. 

Hopefully a source will be supplied now that Sheila lived her life according to the bible.

Otherwise there is a simple explanation. Bamber put the bible on Sheila's arm.

I recall the letter she wrote Ann Eaton from hospital that she had "found God in a simple way.". It's very difficult to know just what was running through her head those last few months. Did she think she had somehow brought the illness upon herself the way she had treated Colin, was it innate from her birth mother as the Psalm 51 alludes to, or a burden to bear for the rest of her life as Doctor Ferguson had told Colin? Had she really come to believe that "all people are bad and should be killed" because of the way she had been treated by her employers, the photography incident, the Maida Vale set, some of whom avoided her because of her slovenly appearance and desire for endless, unproductive conversation?

There does seem to have been a rapprochement with June near the end as Colin himself noted, though one can never be sure with Sheila how long the sentiment would have lasted.

[Jane]

I recall the letter she wrote Ann Eaton from hospital that she had "found God in a simple way.". It's very difficult to know just what was running through her head those last few months. Did she think she had somehow brought the illness upon herself the way she had treated Colin, was it innate from her birth mother as the Psalm 51 alludes to, a burden to bear for the rest of her life as Doctor Ferguson had told Colin? Had she really come to believe that "all people are bad and should be killed" because of the way she had been treated by her employers, the photography incident, the Maida Vale set, some of whom avoided her because of her slovenly appearance and desire for endless, unproductive conversation?

There does seem to have been a rapprochement with June near the end as Colin himself noted, though one can never be sure with Sheila how long the sentiment would have lasted.

Steve, the poor girl had had guilt heaped on her all her life so it stands to reason, as she hadn't been able to fight the accusation before it embedded itself in her psyche, she'd have felt responsible for all the 'wrongs' around her.

[lookout]

I recall the letter she wrote Ann Eaton from hospital that she had "found God in a simple way.". It's very difficult to know just what was running through her head those last few months. Did she think she had somehow brought the illness upon herself the way she had treated Colin, was it innate from her birth mother as the Psalm 51 alludes to, or a burden to bear for the rest of her life as Doctor Ferguson had told Colin? Had she really come to believe that "all people are bad and should be killed" because of the way she had been treated by her employers, the photography incident, the Maida Vale set, some of whom avoided her because of her slovenly appearance and desire for endless, unproductive conversation?

There does seem to have been a rapprochement with June near the end as Colin himself noted, though one can never be sure with Sheila how long the sentiment would have lasted.

It was June's fault the way Sheila had ended up. Nobody else's. Psychological abuse at its worst from a controlling mother.

[Steve_uk]

It was June's fault the way Sheila had ended up. Nobody else's. Psychological abuse at its worst from a controlling mother.

That's certainly Colin's view and it does have some validity. I checked what the median age for the development of schizophrenia is for women (men develop it at a slightly earlier age) and it does seem to tally with the date Sheila became ill around 1983. This might suggest that she would have developed the illness irrespective of the adoption and June's influence. I also wonder about Sheila's birth father-we really don't know much about him at all. https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&q=schizophrenia+median+age&oq=schizophrenia+median+age&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30k1.1009.7499.0.7924.27.25.1.0.0.0.156.2691.0j24.24.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..2.25.2701.0..0j46j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i10k1j0i46k1j0i13k1.0.pnsn1uid9gQ

[lookout]

That's certainly Colin's view and it does have some validity. I checked what the median age for the development of schizophrenia is for women (men develop it at a slightly earlier age) and it does seem to tally with the date Sheila became ill around 1983. This might suggest that she would have developed the illness irrespective of the adoption and June's influence. I also wonder about Sheila's birth father-we really don't know much about him at all. https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&q=schizophrenia+median+age&oq=schizophrenia+median+age&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30k1.1009.7499.0.7924.27.25.1.0.0.0.156.2691.0j24.24.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..2.25.2701.0..0j46j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i10k1j0i46k1j0i13k1.0.pnsn1uid9gQ

Of course,I forgot about Sheila's birth father-------something perhaps which left Sheila wondering too I guess because I doubt she'd have been told about him. He could have been a depressive for all we know and that being the case,it would have been passed on though it's more usual for a mother to pass on such a debility,but no less so for a father too.

[Steve_uk]

Of course,I forgot about Sheila's birth father-------something perhaps which left Sheila wondering too I guess because I doubt she'd have been told about him. He could have been a depressive for all we know and that being the case,it would have been passed on though it's more usual for a mother to pass on such a debility,but no less so for a father too.

There's nothing in Colin's book about Sheila's birth father, which makes me think she never discussed it with him. In CAL's book we get this in Chapter 2:

The baby had been put up for adoption at the insistence of her grandfather, Eric George Jay, acting in what he believed to be everyone's best interests. He was then Senior Chaplain to the Archbishop of Canterbury and had assisted at Queen Elizabeth II's coronation at Westminster Abbey in 1953.

In late 1956, his unmarried eighteen-year-old daughter Christine was working as a receptionist at Bloomsbury's Bonnington Hotel when she fell pregnant. The press later claimed that the father of the child was a cleric or theology student; the Children's Society informed Sheila that he was a thirty-year-old dry cleaner from Putney. When the relationship with Christine ended, he was said to have gone abroad. Whatever the truth, she kept his identity secret.

Christine's parents were very distressed by the pregnancy and arranged for her to leave London under her mother's maiden name. The decision was punishing for them, too, since the baby would be their first grandchild. "The reasons for her being given away were not as simple as you might imagine," the baby's uncle told the Daily Mirror on 29 October 1986, when they arrived on his doorstep. "It is more complex," he added, although the full meaning of his words has never been made clear.

[Jane]

That's certainly Colin's view and it does have some validity. I checked what the median age for the development of schizophrenia is for women (men develop it at a slightly earlier age) and it does seem to tally with the date Sheila became ill around 1983. This might suggest that she would have developed the illness irrespective of the adoption and June's influence. I also wonder about Sheila's birth father-we really don't know much about him at all. https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&q=schizophrenia+median+age&oq=schizophrenia+median+age&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30k1.1009.7499.0.7924.27.25.1.0.0.0.156.2691.0j24.24.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..2.25.2701.0..0j46j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i10k1j0i46k1j0i13k1.0.pnsn1uid9gQ

But Lookout doesn't believe Sheila was ill. I've not been able to get to the bottom of this but I can only think it might have to do with mimicry being the sincerest form of flattery, ie she was reflecting June's illness -and we do know that children copy parents- although June wasn't a schizophrenic.

[Adam]

Why is it impossible to provide sources that Sheila -

1)

Was very knowledgable about the bible & knew specific pages to go to.


2)

Was a dedicated & passionate bible reader & had lived for months & years according to the bible.


3)

Would have been able to calm down sufficiently between 3.10am - 3.48am to be able to find, open & read the bible.


Sheila must be one of the most investigated women ever.

No one has provided one source for these 3 issues regarding one of the most investigated women ever.

Which would at least give some support that Sheila may have read the bible after killing 4 people.

Because there are no sources.

[lookout]

But Lookout doesn't believe Sheila was ill. I've not been able to get to the bottom of this but I can only think it might have to do with mimicry being the sincerest form of flattery, ie she was reflecting June's illness -and we do know that children copy parents- although June wasn't a schizophrenic.

I do believe that Sheila suffered from depression though and probably because she couldn't understand why she was feeling the way she was,it was ignored while she struggled to get on with her life. It was only when she was in Japan,modelling,that she must have realised that not all was well and wrote to Colin to book an appointment for a psychiatrist.
I don't believe she was as ill as had been made out, her needs had been misunderstood.The girl was by no means stupid. The medication dished out to her had wrecked her. I'm a firm believer in getting to the cause rather than treating the symptoms. "Attacks" that Sheila suffered could have been sheer frustration,bordering on temper,similar to a child with ADHD or Aspergers where certain situations cause a meltdown,but it doesn't mean that they should be given the strongest dose of whatever as it only acts as a temporary measure until it's repeated again,which furthers their problem because of the reactions from these drugs.
Even the use of Diazapam  causes hallucinations in many,but for others is an answer to severe anxiety,so they're not for everyone,and giving too much of these drugs is just as bad as giving too little.
Until anyone has seen a patient who has been given too much of a certain drug,particularly to treat anxiety and behavioural problems,then you can't comment on their toxicity or effects on that patient.

[Caroline]

I do believe that Sheila suffered from depression though and probably because she couldn't understand why she was feeling the way she was,it was ignored while she struggled to get on with her life. It was only when she was in Japan,modelling,that she must have realised that not all was well and wrote to Colin to book an appointment for a psychiatrist.
I don't believe she was as ill as had been made out, her needs had been misunderstood.The girl was by no means stupid. The medication dished out to her had wrecked her. I'm a firm believer in getting to the cause rather than treating the symptoms. "Attacks" that Sheila suffered could have been sheer frustration,bordering on temper,similar to a child with ADHD or Aspergers where certain situations cause a meltdown,but it doesn't mean that they should be given the strongest dose of whatever as it only acts as a temporary measure until it's repeated again,which furthers their problem because of the reactions from these drugs.
Even the use of Diazapam  causes hallucinations in many,but for others is an answer to severe anxiety,so they're not for everyone,and giving too much of these drugs is just as bad as giving too little.
Until anyone has seen a patient who has been given too much of a certain drug,particularly to treat anxiety and behavioural problems,then you can't comment on their toxicity or effects on that patient.

Thank you Dr Freud! 

[lookout]

Thank you Dr Freud! 

You're welcome.