Author Topic: Vaulty Manor Farm  (Read 17945 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kaldin

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6961
Re: Vaulty Manor Farm
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2017, 01:03:PM »
It may well have been true (or partially true), I didn't say it wasn't. The wind up was in telling her. Perhaps she did discuss it with Nevil or perhaps she didn't feel able. Who knows but although a little strange, Ann pulling wallpaper off doesn't make Jeremy innocent.

I didn't say it did. I'm not talking about innocence or guilt here, I'm just interested in the assets angle and what happened to them.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48670
Re: Vaulty Manor Farm
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2017, 01:05:PM »
It wasn't a pun Lookout, it was said to get a reaction. He enjoyed winding people up





Same meaning. I know what I meant even if you didn't.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33773
Re: Vaulty Manor Farm
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2017, 01:11:PM »




Same meaning. I know what I meant even if you didn't.

A pun is a play on words ie heir/air. A wind up is taunt/tease.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48670
Re: Vaulty Manor Farm
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2017, 01:18:PM »
I prefer jesting than " winding up ",even though he'd turned one into the other.

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: Vaulty Manor Farm
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2017, 06:03:PM »
I prefer jesting than " winding up ",even though he'd turned one into the other.

You would.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17579
Re: Vaulty Manor Farm
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2017, 09:12:PM »
It may well have been true (or partially true), I didn't say it wasn't. The wind up was in telling her. Perhaps she did discuss it with Nevil or perhaps she didn't feel able. Who knows but although a little strange, Ann pulling wallpaper off doesn't make Jeremy innocent.

If he was trying to wind her up - then the way she marked his card was undeserved?  She could have approached the immediate post-killings period with undue suspicion, on account of how she interpreted what he had previously said - when he was merely trying to wind her up.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 09:13:PM by Roch »

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33773
Re: Vaulty Manor Farm
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2017, 09:20:PM »
If he was trying to wind her up - then the way she marked his card was undeserved?  She could have approached the immediate post-killings period with undue suspicion, on account of how she interpreted what he had previously said - when he was merely trying to wind her up.

I would suggest that her reaction was based on a little more than an over reaction to a "wind up", IF, indeed it was such.

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17579
Re: Vaulty Manor Farm
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2017, 09:23:PM »
It may well have been true (or partially true), I didn't say it wasn't. The wind up was in telling her. Perhaps she did discuss it with Nevil or perhaps she didn't feel able. Who knows but although a little strange, Ann pulling wallpaper off doesn't make Jeremy innocent.

I don't know why you and Jane repeat this ad infinitum: it doesn't make him innocent.  It's tagged on the end of so many points discussed, which either show prosecution witnesses in a bad light or in some way undermine the official version.

Taken as a whole, the points probably do make him innocent!  i.e. cumulatively, the points form a kid of trace element of true events. 

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17579
Re: Vaulty Manor Farm
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2017, 09:25:PM »
I would suggest that her reaction was based on a little more than an over reaction to a "wind up", IF, indeed it was such.

I suggest something different.  A barely concealed malice-aforethought germinating in her. 

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: Vaulty Manor Farm
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2017, 11:44:PM »
I don't know why you and Jane repeat this ad infinitum: it doesn't make him innocent.  It's tagged on the end of so many points discussed, which either show prosecution witnesses in a bad light or in some way undermine the official version.

Taken as a whole, the points probably do make him innocent!  i.e. cumulatively, the points form a kid of trace element of true events.

Nothing you have said does show that Jeremy is innocent. So many points discussed lead to people lying from day one without motive and that to me is just silly.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Kaldin

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6961
Re: Vaulty Manor Farm
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2017, 11:45:PM »
I wonder why she felt the need to mention it in her statement. It wasn't relevant to the investigation. I can only think that she wanted to paint him in a bad light.

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: Vaulty Manor Farm
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2017, 11:47:PM »
I wonder why she felt the need to mention it in her statement. It wasn't relevant to the investigation. I can only think that she wanted to paint him in a bad light.

She didn't like he, he doesn't sound to have been a likable person back then. So what?
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Kaldin

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6961
Re: Vaulty Manor Farm
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2017, 11:50:PM »
She didn't like he, he doesn't sound to have been a likable person back then. So what?

I wonder if she really did feel it was a threat at the time. It's easy to say that afterwards when he's been charged with murder.

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: Vaulty Manor Farm
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2017, 11:53:PM »
I wonder if she really did feel it was a threat at the time. It's easy to say that afterwards when he's been charged with murder.

Well the only person who could answer that - is her.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33773
Re: Vaulty Manor Farm
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2017, 08:50:AM »
I wonder if she really did feel it was a threat at the time. It's easy to say that afterwards when he's been charged with murder.

If that's the first question, surely, the next has to be Why? People generally don't feel threatened without reason, it's part of our "flight or fight" mechanism. Very often, the only reason we dislike a person is because we don't know them. Given that Ann, nearest to Jeremy in age, was some 13 years his senior, it's fairly clear they were never going to be bosom pals. I think it's obvious that there would have been strong interest in him -albeit from afar. He was, after all, the "Heir", and as such, destined to be the next CEO. THEIR next CEO. The person their futures were dependent on.

I think we may take for granted that Jeremy's upbringing was very different from Ann and David's. Theirs, from how it sounds, was more of a 'hands on' experience, which, if nothing else, would have fostered their knowledge of farming, and perhaps more importantly, their love of and loyalty to their family's business. I think it's more than fair to say that it's something they knew far more about, than Jeremy, whose own interest in it, other than financial, appeared so little he didn't even bother to go to his local, and excellent ag college, OR spend every available moment, on the farm, learning the ropes. Indeed, it seems that he took every opportunity to do anything OTHER than farm. Nonetheless, there's the distinct impression that he thought he knew it all and their opinion, whilst he may have paid lip service to it, counted for nothing.

If they didn't trust him to do his best for the family business, it would have been because they'd learned that he couldn't be trusted. There seems to have been a huge lack of communication -if Jeremy was disinterested in the future planned for him, his lack of knowledge about it and disinterest in it would have stood out like a sore thumb, although it's possible he may have been more interested in the holiday park- which isn't surprising, given the amount of time he spent away from the farm.

I really don't see the family's distrust and suspicion of him as being any different from any other business, in which employees hold shares, and the business becomes taken over by a 'whizz kid' with no working knowledge of it, and no interest in it, save it's financial value. It's very natural that they'd feel that their whole way of life and their security was under threat. His behaviours, post murders, would have done nothing to allay those fears. Even if we allow that he may have been consumed with grief, his duty, as head of the family business, was to have kept the family in the loop, to have put aside expressing that grief in his own 'unique' way long enough to reassure his family and employees. You asked if the family felt threatened. Do you think there was anything about Jeremy's behaviours -once he thought he was in the driving seat- that would have made them feel their futures were secure?...............and before you say it, I'm aware that it doesn't make him a murderer, but wanting to get his hands on the money to secure his own future, far away from farming, did.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 08:51:AM by Jane J »