Author Topic: Yvonne Hartley  (Read 24259 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: Yvonne Hartley
« Reply #135 on: September 15, 2017, 09:37:AM »
You obviously believe there was an industrial frame.






I know nothing about industrial framing so prefer not to comment on something I know nothing about.

What I do know about is domestic violence,and emotional abuse which Sheila was a victim of and virtually no information was researched when the crime was first given as a murder/suicide as to what had been behind the terrible tragedy.

Offline Adam

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Re: Yvonne Hartley
« Reply #136 on: September 15, 2017, 09:48:AM »





I know nothing about industrial framing so prefer not to comment on something I know nothing about.

What I do know about is domestic violence,and emotional abuse which Sheila was a victim of and virtually no information was researched when the crime was first given as a murder/suicide as to what had been behind the terrible tragedy.

The relatives & Julie couldn't have framed Bamber alone. They needed the police.

The police needed experts to create 62 pieces of false published forensic evidence & even more circumstantial evidence.

Therefore you believe there was an industrial frame.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 10:10:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Yvonne Hartley
« Reply #137 on: September 15, 2017, 10:18:AM »
how do you know they dident.

By reading the case details - so again, what was Julie's motive?
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Caroline

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Re: Yvonne Hartley
« Reply #138 on: September 15, 2017, 10:29:AM »
You really know better than to ask a question like that.

As you well know, it was Liz Rimmington and not Julie Mugford who went to the police. Mugford probably only meant to spread rumors but, as you put it, got more than she bargained for.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,497.msg218911.html#msg218911

The police were already trying to form a case against Bamber before Julie Mugford showed up. By then DCI Thomas "Taff" Jones had already been replaced by Mike Ainsley. The investigation of Bamber with a view to charging him had already begun. They weren't going to let her off the hook. Once they had her cornered she had to go along with their plans to save herself.

Wow! You certainly put some heavy reliance on what I used to believe. I guess I should be flattered. Do you have any theories of your own to add or are you just going to repost my old posts?

Believing Bamber is innocent, leads you to make assumptions in order to explain some really odd behaviour. You have to believe that Julie is a monster and capable of sending an innocent man who she once loved, to prison for the rest of his life. They had nothing on Julie - she told them about the cheque book fraud and the Osea robbery and she was nowhere near WHF on the night of the murders.

When the fog lifted, I had to ask what I would do - no matter how much I resented someone, I'd never do that. I don't imagine she's that much different to the rest of us on that score. However, boot on the other foot, if she had done that to me, I have to ask what kind of letter I would have sent to her - it certainly wouldn't end 'love you stinker'. Odd thing is, I can put myself in Julie's shoes to a certain extent and understand some of the behaviours she expressed - can't do that with Bamber.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 10:36:AM by Caroline »
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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Re: Yvonne Hartley
« Reply #139 on: September 15, 2017, 10:42:AM »
" Common characteristics of a victim of emotional abuse ", quote :

" They have a low self-esteem "
 " They have a submissive personality "
" They feel inferior to others "
 " They depend on others emotionally and financially "
 " They feel they don't deserve to be respected as human beings "
 " They have unrealistic expectations "
 " They feel they need to be controlled ( or protected ) by others "
 " They are excessively tolerant and accommodating "
 " They don't stand for their rights "
 " They deceive themselves in thinking that--one day--magically,the abuser will change "
 " They blame themselves on other people's problems,or they blame it on the world,or life,or luck,or a given situation.
 " They are not aware of the fact that they allow abuse to occur "
 "They don't feel they are capable to succeed by themselves "
 " They tend to have a difficult time setting boundaries and saying " NO ".

In between times Sheila lived with depression through lack of self-achievement, and frustration because of the continuous controlling and belittling attitude from her mother.   
Quite often,the victim will allow the abuse to continue because they feel that they have nothing to live for.
The abusers themselves have mental health issues and also display inadequate behaviours whether the victim is present or not. Theirs is a personality disorder.
Sheila had been a healthy child but on growing into adulthood didn't have a particularly good relationship with her mother. Her salvation in this household was her father who she relied on for emotional support, and up to a point she'd have been able to control her emotions of the psychological abuse,but not those of her abuser.
If Sheila's father hadn't been around,I doubt very much that Sheila would ever have visited WHF.   

Offline Adam

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Re: Yvonne Hartley
« Reply #140 on: September 15, 2017, 10:48:AM »
I thought the police found out about the minor cheque book fraud. A long time after Julie's WS had been completed. Bamber probably told his defence lawyers & the news got back to the police.

Julie & Susan Battersby then paid back the money & the bank didn't press charges.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Yvonne Hartley
« Reply #141 on: September 15, 2017, 10:50:AM »
By reading the case details - so again, what was Julie's motive?

I think Nugs gets carried away with his conspiracy theories.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 10:54:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: Yvonne Hartley
« Reply #142 on: September 15, 2017, 10:58:AM »
Wow! You certainly put some heavy reliance on what I used to believe. I guess I should be flattered. Do you have any theories of your own to add or are you just going to repost my old posts?

Believing Bamber is innocent, leads you to make assumptions in order to explain some really odd behaviour. You have to believe that Julie is a monster and capable of sending an innocent man who she once loved, to prison for the rest of his life. They had nothing on Julie - she told them about the cheque book fraud and the Osea robbery and she was nowhere near WHF on the night of the murders.

When the fog lifted, I had to ask what I would do - no matter how much I resented someone, I'd never do that. I don't imagine she's that much different to the rest of us on that score. However, boot on the other foot, if she had done that to me, I have to ask what kind of letter I would have sent to her - it certainly wouldn't end 'love you stinker'. Odd thing is, I can put myself in Julie's shoes to a certain extent and understand some of the behaviours she expressed - can't do that with Bamber.





It's a centuries old phenomenon that one ALWAYS hurts the one they love ! Rarely fails.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Yvonne Hartley
« Reply #143 on: September 15, 2017, 11:23:AM »




It's a centuries old phenomenon that one ALWAYS hurts the one they love ! Rarely fails.

How many times have you done that? They should have used that old adage in court, Jeremy might be free now  ::)
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 11:24:AM by Caroline »
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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Re: Yvonne Hartley
« Reply #144 on: September 15, 2017, 11:27:AM »
How many times have you done that? They should have used that old adage in court, Jeremy might be free now  ::)





I'm not talking about me,so why ask ?    ::)

Offline nugnug

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Re: Yvonne Hartley
« Reply #145 on: September 15, 2017, 11:46:AM »
By reading the case details - so again, what was Julie's motive?

we allready know what her motive was money.

and chardges droped we know thats what happend.

Offline Adam

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Re: Yvonne Hartley
« Reply #146 on: September 15, 2017, 11:58:AM »
we allready know what her motive was money.

and chardges droped we know thats what happend.

Julie approached the police for money ? As you do.

Julie hadn't been charged with anything by EP when she approached them.  EP were not interested & didn't know about her selling low grade drugs in New Cross which Bamber gave her.  They didn't even cover New Cross anyway.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline nugnug

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Re: Yvonne Hartley
« Reply #147 on: September 15, 2017, 12:12:PM »
Julie approached the police for money ? As you do.

Julie hadn't been charged with anything by EP when she approached them.  EP were not interested & didn't know about her selling low grade drugs in New Cross which Bamber gave her.  They didn't even cover New Cross anyway.

well davids allready coverd this.

Offline David1819

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Re: Yvonne Hartley
« Reply #148 on: September 15, 2017, 12:36:PM »
Wow! You certainly put some heavy reliance on what I used to believe. I guess I should be flattered. Do you have any theories of your own to add or are you just going to repost my old posts?


Why should someone bother taking the time to explain something to you that you have already worked out yourself? Unless you have totally forgotten everything you wrote, it shows you are not here for an honest debate.

Changing your mind does not change the evidence. And the reasons you have given certainly does not nullify the evidence either.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 12:37:PM by David1819 »

Offline Adam

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Re: Yvonne Hartley
« Reply #149 on: September 15, 2017, 12:44:PM »
Why should someone bother taking the time to explain something to you that you have already worked out yourself? Unless you have totally forgotten everything you wrote, it shows you are not here for an honest debate.

Changing your mind does not change the evidence. And the reasons you have given certainly does not nullify the evidence either.

What evidence has changed since you said this -

'The forensics point to him in all directions despite the police errors and inconsistencies.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.