Is the Earth flat, or round, or both, but not spherical?

[nugnug]

if the earth was flat cats would of pushed everything over the edge by now.

[maggie]

if the earth was flat cats would of pushed everything over the edge by now.

Love that nugs.

[susan]

if the earth was flat cats would of pushed everything over the edge by now.

Hi Nugs that is very true and so so funny brought a big smile to my face 

[Reader]

It's easy to direct someone to some other website where reasons can be found. However, mike tesko, you are ignoring my questions about the predictability of eclipses of the moon and sun. How come such predictions are accurate, given that they're based on both the sun and moon being very far away?

Regarding airliners turning upside down, you haven't explained why that's difficult to believe. It would be hard to believe if you thought it meant that the passengers would fall out of their seats. However, the passengers would also have turned upside down, so they wouldn't notice any change. The ground in, say, New Zealand faces roughly the opposite direction from the ground in England, so the "upside down" airliner can land "upside down" without any problem.

[David1819]

It's easy to direct someone to some other website where reasons can be found. However, mike tesko, you are ignoring my questions about the predictability of eclipses of the moon and sun. How come such predictions are accurate, given that they're based on both the sun and moon being very far away?

Regarding airliners turning upside down, you haven't explained why that's difficult to believe. It would be hard to believe if you thought it meant that the passengers would fall out of their seats. However, the passengers would also have turned upside down, so they wouldn't notice any change. The ground in, say, New Zealand faces roughly the opposite direction from the ground in England, so the "upside down" airliner can land "upside down" without any problem.

I think Mike has now realised the problems with the whole thing. If the earth is flat then the other planets are no different. That would mean all the planets are flat disks all simultaneously facing earth so they appear round at all times for astronomers to see them that way. 

[Reader]

I don't think he would consider that a problem at all. From his point of view, the problem is that modern descriptions of the cosmos imply that Genesis contains numerous white lies. However, he ignored my questions as to why the moon looks cratered, and why the planets change their positions in relation to the stars.

[mike tesko]

Then how do you explain the ring around Saturn? The shadow caused by the ring on the surface is curved. Rings of Saturn are created like rainbows are on earth - rainbows on earth do not mean that the earth is round

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/saturn.jpg

What a breath taking photograph that is. That is 83 times the size of our own planet! And is currently 1.6 Billion kilometres away from us.

[mike tesko]

It's easy to direct someone to some other website where reasons can be found. However, mike tesko, you are ignoring my questions about the predictability of eclipses of the moon and sun. How come such predictions are accurate, given that they're based on both the sun and moon being very far away? I am not avoiding answering any questions about the predictability of eclipes of the moon and sun. These calculations can be easily worked out in a flat earth model with a domed firmament. All that is required is predicted movement around, inside and above the firmament by the sun and the moon and the angles at which they appear to occupy the same part of the firmament, or as the case may be opposite to one another, or at right angles to eachother, thus creating the eclipse effect, partial eclipse effect, new moon, full moon, etc...

Regarding airliners turning upside down, you haven't explained why that's difficult to believe. This simply cannot be true! Since, at each degree around the circumference of a globed earth model, there would have to be the potential for aeroplanes, its passengers, etc to be upside down in relation to say someone on the exact opposite side of the globe model, whilst below them people on the earth directly below the aeroplane and its passengers and crew, would view the plane, its passengers and its crew as being the right way up! Things would be the right way up and the wrong way up at one and the same time! Rather interestingly, when planets are said to go into apparent retrograde motion, some aeroplanes, its passengers and crew would actually have to be travelling backwards as well as appearing the right way up, or in or at the upside down modeIt would be hard to believe if you thought it meant that the passengers would fall out of their seats. I am saying that passengers would know if the plane they were flying in, and their own bodies had flipped upside down, or sideways on, or back to the right way up, if such a phenomena occurred, in the same way that if you were travelling in a motor vehicle along a road, and the car suddenly went into a spin, and rolled over and over until it eventually came to a standstill either coming to a halt upside down, sideways on, or on all four wheels. A passenger in such a vehicle accident would experience the turning around of the vehicle they were in, and the fact that their own body had rotated etc, etc... However, the passengers would also have turned upside down, so they wouldn't notice any change. The ground in, say, New Zealand faces roughly the opposite direction from the ground in England, so the "upside down" airliner can land "upside down" without any problem. A change or an alteration of perspective would be detecable in the human brain of individuals where such phenomena was occurring, I don't believe such activity would be unnoticeable. It is full of contradictions and is problematic. Take for example, two aeroplanes in the same part of the firmament, one flying east to west, the other flying west to east, they fly past eachother within half a mile of eachother on the event horizon. Lets say that the pilots of each of these planes can see the other plane heading towards their general position and altitude from as far away as say 15 miles or whatever? At what point would the pilot of aeroplane (a) see aeroplane (b) or vice versa,  upside down, sideways on, or the right way up along the on coming flight path? As they pass eachother and it were posssible to record a visual image or images of the other plane hurtling away from their own (or vice versa) position in the firmameent, at what stage would it appear to one pilot, or the other, that either the aeroplane they were flying had started to turn upside down, or sideways on, or that the other plane had started to turn on its side, or to flip upside down, and maybe even appear to be travelling backwards, sideways on, upside down or the right way up? Its just unworkable, unimaginable, and borders on an alternative reality, where up could be down, right could be left, or vice versa at one and the same moment!

[Reader]

I am not avoiding answering any questions about the predictability of eclipses of the moon and sun. These calculations can be easily worked out in a flat earth model with a domed firmament. All that is required is predicted movement around, inside and above the firmament by the sun and the moon and the angles at which they appear to occupy the same part of the firmament, or as the case may be opposite to one another, or at right angles to each other, thus creating the eclipse effect, partial eclipse effect, new moon, full moon, etc...

That is avoiding answering my question. I didn't ask you about predicting anything using a flat earth model. I asked how come very accurate predictions of eclipses are possible based on a model in which the sun and moon are at great distances from earth, given your assertion that the sun and moon aren't at great distances from earth.

[mike tesko]

That is avoiding answering my question. I didn't ask you about predicting anything using a flat earth model. I asked how come very accurate predictions of eclipses are possible based on a model in which the sun and moon are at great distances from earth, given your assertion that the sun and moon aren't at great distances from earth.

A pefectly simple explanation springs to mind, for example, with the sun and the moon much closer to the earth than we're being told the distances betweeen them and the earth at different times, angles, trajectories, etc, produced inside (the moon) and outside (the sun) the edge of the firmament, is simply a microcosm calculation of a flat earth model which gets presented and transformed into a macrocosm of the universe as if the earth is a globe model with the sun at the centre of  the universe that we and the other planets exist in, all moving around the sun, some planets moving around the sun at different rates of speed and trajectories. In the flat earth model, the earth remains static, and what are known to us as the planets and the stars revolve around us, chiefly beyond the outer edge of the firmament, with the exception of the moon which undoubtedly revolves around the inside edge of the firmament! The moons journey in its so called lunar cycle influences the hide tide and the low tides of the seas, etc...

It doesn't matter how close the sun and the moon are from the earths surface, since the movement of these will always be measureable because their position in the sky is set by longditude and latitude co-ordinations, and inclinations in flight!

All that is required to try and make it appear that a flat earth model is really a globe earth model, is to apply the microcosm /macrocosm principles, which allows the sun and the moon to be much further away from the earth than they are in reality!

[Reader]

Things would be the right way up and the wrong way up at one and the same time!

Yes, but putting the words "right" and "wrong" in the same sentence and ending that sentence with an exclamation mark doesn't imply that the situation is impossible.

A change or an alteration of perspective would be detectable in the human brain of individuals where such phenomena were occurring, I don't believe such activity would be unnoticeable.

The change of orientation during a passenger's flight in an airliner occurs gradually throughout the flight, so it isn't particularly noticeable. If, however, a passenger can see the night sky during during their flight, they can deduce their change of orientation from the changes in position of the star constellations that they see.

In your example of planes approaching each other and about 15 miles apart, their difference in orientation would be about 0.2 degrees, and this would gradually reduce to zero degrees in the one minute (roughly) that the planes take to "meet". This change would certainly be noticeable using sensitive instruments, but would be too gradual to be particularly noticeable to the unaided eyes.

In the flat earth model, the earth remains static, and what are known to us as the planets and the stars revolve around us, chiefly beyond the outer edge of the firmament, with the exception of the moon which undoubtedly revolves around the inside edge of the firmament!

In that model, how far away from earth are the moon, the sun, the firmament and the stars? Also, what are the diameters (approximately) of the earth and the moon, and why does the moon appear to be extensively cratered?

[Reader]

What a breath taking photograph that is. That is 83 times the size of our own planet!

I think you'll find that the photograph is a lot smaller than our planet earth.

[mike tesko]

Yes, but putting the words "right" and "wrong" in the same sentence and ending that sentence with an exclamation mark doesn't imply that the situation is impossible. from 'a perspective stance' it would..
The change of orientation during a passenger's flight in an airliner occurs gradually throughout the flight, so it isn't particularly noticeable. The event horizon would flip.. If, however, a passenger can see the night sky during during their flight, they can deduce their change of orientation from the changes in position of the star constellations that they see. As I say, the event horizon would flip and continue to flip further and further, but no-one to my knowlege has ever reported such a phenomena - and because we are led to believe that the globe of earth rotates at a rate of 1000 MPH, in the example given where two aeroplanes are hurtling toward one another going in opposite directions, and because of the spin of the world (depending also on the inclination / angle that the earth supposedly spins on its own axis) the speeds of each plane would have to be different since one plane might be travelling along in the direction of spin, whereas the other might be travelling in the opposite direction of that spin. As far as I know, there is no evidence that such drastic measures have occurred involving two aeroplanes crossing the same part of the sky going in opposite directions.. 

In your example of planes approaching each other and about 15 miles apart, their difference in orientation would be about 0.2 degrees, and this would gradually reduce to zero degrees in the one minute (roughly) that the planes take to "meet". There would have to be a flip in the event horizon as viewed by passengers in one plane, as oppose to the the view of the event horizon as viewed by passengers in the other plane...This change would certainly be noticeable using sensitive instruments, We will never know, because the earth is not a globe, its primarily flat...but would be too gradual to be particularly noticeable to the unaided eyes.It would be unnoticeable because it doesn't in fact happen...

In that model, how far away from earth are the moon, (Not as far as we are being told, that's for sure), the sun, (again, not as far as we are being led to believe), the firmament I would say that the inner edge of the firmament would be earth side of the van allen radiation belt, and that the outer edge of the firmanent stretches to the outer edge of the outer van allen radiation belt and the stars? What we perceive to be the stars, could be something to do with the van allen belt itself. The stars are not suns like our own around which is orbitting other planets and other moons, etc, I think that what we are perceiving as stars in the night sky, has something to do with electro - magnetism that occurs within, or just outside the van allen radiation belt..Also, what are the diameters (approximately) of the earth and the moon, and why does the moon appear to be extensively cratered? The moon operates and functions on the earth side of the inner van allen radiation belt. The crators of the moon can be explained as a possible reflection of the under belly of the flat earth which gets projected above the event horizon...

The phases of the moon, are created by the intereaction of a third body in the firmament known to some as the dark sun, which passes at regular intervals between the flat earth and the moon...

[Caroline]

https://www.popsci.com/10-ways-you-can-prove-earth-is-round#page-10

[Reader]

from 'a perspective stance' it would...

No, it wouldn't, because my point was about sentence structure. The particular situation you used was of aeroplanes on opposite sides of the globe. You may have meant that this situation is impossible because the planes don't have the same orientation, but merely putting "right" and "wrong" in the same sentence isn't a valid way of showing impossibility. In the globe model, the "down" direction is towards the centre of gravity of the earth, so it's not contradictory that it's different on opposite sides of the earth. It's different for observers at the same altitude who are 15 miles apart, and this difference, of roughly 0.2 degrees, can easily be measured.

The event horizon would flip. . . . As I say, the event horizon would flip and continue to flip further and further, but no-one to my knowledge has ever reported such a phenomena.

Numerous people have effectively noticed this by noticing that the local time has changed during a long journey (after taking into account the duration of the journey).

. . . we are led to believe that the globe of earth rotates at a rate of 1000 MPH, in the example given where two aeroplanes are hurtling toward one another going in opposite directions, . . .

You don't need such a dramatic circumstance to notice the earth's spin. Set a long, heavy pendulum (with a near-frictionless suspension that allows rotation) in motion, taking great care that it's initial direction is directly towards its stable "at rest" position. This is routinely done each day in London. The direction of swing of the pendulum gradually changes by almost exactly the amount that would be expected due to the spin of the earth that you mentioned.

There would have to be a flip in the event horizon as viewed by passengers in one plane, as opposed to the view of the event horizon as viewed by passengers in the other plane.

The word "flip" suggests a sudden change, but a very gradual change wouldn't be particularly noticeable. There's nothing really sudden for the passengers to observe, other than that if they look directly towards the other aeroplane, they will need to turn their heads suddenly as the other aeroplane passes them (assuming the aeroplanes don't collide).

Not as far as we are being told, that's for sure

How come you can't provide specific sizes for the earth, sun and moon at least? The flat earth model is no better than vague speculation if that can't be done.

The craters of the moon can be explained as a possible reflection of the underbelly of the flat earth which gets projected above the event horizon.

Projected onto the moon? By what? Where is the projector? Without a detailed explanation, this is again just vague speculation, and why would the underside of the earth be cratered anyway?

The phases of the moon, are created by the interaction of a third body in the firmament known to some as the dark sun, which passes at regular intervals between the flat earth and the moon.

There's no "dark sun" in the round earth model, so how come that model accurately predicts the phases of the moon?

How do you account for the observed movements of the planets in relation to the stars?