could jermy have walked to whf.

[Jane]

No there were not .

End of .

Just one example  , if you are going to accept that Jeremy cycled to and from the crime scene where there's is not one piece of evidence to prove that , then you in turn have to accept that in the many hours that the police were outside it was possible that Sheila was the one who used the shower head ?

Do you get it now?


You have to accept that Julie lied in either her first statements or her second  because she relayed conversations and times and then completely changed her mind ?

We all have to accept that , and if you think it is acceptable for a person to be convicted on a piece of evidence that was reomoved from the crime scene , handled by others , then not handled in a forensic manner by the officer who collected it then I despair.

If the silencer evidence is "dodgy" then what have you got left?

Funny how, daily, there's stuff is repeated here -from both sides, just to even things up- in vain belief that if it keeps being said it will make it true. If you accept that, WHY can you not accept that, in the beginning, Julie may have told a truth she wanted it to be.

You speak of there being no evidence of Jeremy having cycled to WHF. By the time they'd checked the tow path, there was hardly likely to be any evidence and as there was apparently none on the bike itself, from where was evidence concerning it, or it's journey, to come.

[Steve_uk]

I thought she did , but might be wrong , but she definitely changed the words that Jeremy used in the calls in the evening .

Again she didn't change words exactly, but she omitted part of the conversation in both calls which changed dramatically its import.

[guest7363]

Funny how, daily, there's stuff is repeated here -from both sides, just to even things up- in vain belief that if it keeps being said it will make it true. If you accept that, WHY can you not accept that, in the beginning, Julie may have told a truth she wanted it to be.

You speak of there being no evidence of Jeremy having cycled to WHF. By the time they'd checked the tow path, there was hardly likely to be any evidence and as there was apparently none on the bike itself, from where was evidence concerning it, or it's journey, to come.

Another way of looking at it Jane, if anyone wanted to set Bamber up, the cycle was a great opportunity, Bird took the soil samples, he would have made sure these were planted on the cycle.

[Steve_uk]

Another way of looking at it Jane, if anyone wanted to set Bamber up, the cycle was a great opportunity, Bird took the soil samples, he would have made sure these were planted on the cycle.

The bicycle was covered in yellow sulphurous mud almost a month after the massacre when Ann Eaton inspected it in Jeremy's back yard. I'd like to know what woman used it in the interim and where did she wash the mud off?

[Adam]

Another way of looking at it Jane, if anyone wanted to set Bamber up, the cycle was a great opportunity, Bird took the soil samples, he would have made sure these were planted on the cycle.

Wouldn't it have been easier to put Sheila's blood on the bike ?

David said the police had Sheila's blood at the station. Bamber said himself he brought the bike over just before the massacre.

The police wouldn't have to get the relatives to lie in their WS's about a silencer. 

[guest7363]

Wouldn't it have been easier to put Sheila's blood on the bike ?

David said the police had Sheila's blood at the station. Bamber said himself he brought the bike over just before the massacre.

The police wouldn't have to get the relatives to lie in their WS's about a silencer.

I think it would have been so easy yes Adam, they could have planted evidence in his home while Bamber was away.

[Jane]

Another way of looking at it Jane, if anyone wanted to set Bamber up, the cycle was a great opportunity, Bird took the soil samples, he would have made sure these were planted on the cycle.

Well, it would certainly have saved all those alleged convoluted shenanigans that allegedly went on in the farm house. It must have taken years to make all that up!!! I wonder if there was a work party which called itself "You Couldn't Make It Up"?

[guest7363]

Well, it would certainly have saved all those alleged convoluted shenanigans that allegedly went on in the farm house. It must have taken years to make all that up!!! I wonder if there was a work party which called itself "You Couldn't Make It Up"?

I think Denis Norden springs to mind Jane

[Jane]

I think Denis Norden springs to mind Jane

Or howz about "Would I Lie To You"? Graham someone or other?

[susan]

Where have I said there was forgery and perjury ? I don't know because I am still asking questions of the case , I am quite envious of those that now have seen evidence to show that is the case and now know 100% he is innocent . But I would never assume in my mind that it is true until I saw the same things.

I have suspicions of things that might have happened , but I don't know for sure .

The raid team statements are quite interesting to revisit by the way and I do wonder what happened to all the originals that were made in the august .

Jan I have not seen the evidence as such that shows Sheila was involved in the shootings but I have spoken with people who have and I can therefore accept that.  I find it quite amazing that the evidence that convicted Jeremy was flawed IMO and I have not seen one piece of concrete evidence on this forum to convince me Jeremy is guilty most of  what is talked about is a person's opinion or has come from one of the numerous books written so I will stick with the idea Sheila committed the murders then shot herself.

[Adam]

Jan I have not seen the evidence as such that shows Sheila was involved in the shootings but I have spoken with people who have and I can therefore accept that.  I find it quite amazing that the evidence that convicted Jeremy was flawed IMO and I have not seen one piece of concrete evidence on this forum to convince me Jeremy is guilty most of  what is talked about is a person's opinion or has come from one of the numerous books written so I will stick with the idea Sheila committed the murders then shot herself.

Perfectly clean front of hands on Sheila.   

One blood mark on back of hand of Sheila. 

Extremley low levels of lead found on hands on Sheila.  Not consistent with handling a rifle. Significantly higher traces expected.

Well manicured nails on Sheila. 

No broken nails.

Nails in tact.

No marks or indentations on Sheila's fingers. 

No blood on finger tips.

No dirt on finger tips.

No powder on finger tips.

No trace of any lead dust coating on fingers.

No traces of the lubricant on fingers from re loading twice.

Very clean feet in comparison to June.

Feet free from major blood staining.

No debris such as sugar on feet

No mention of foot injuries after bare footed aggressive movement around big house & brutal fight.

No injuries in photos to neck, shoulders, legs, arms & face.

Only Sheila Caffell's blood on nightdress.

No presence of firearm residue on nightdress.

No presence of firearm residue on Sheila.

No trace of rifle oil on nightdress

No mention of nightdress damage from agressive movement and brutal kitchen fight.

Impossibility of shower removing evidence off Sheila.

Impossibility of Sheila showering after killing herself.

Nevill being bare footed in pyjamas as if just got up.

Sheila being bare footed in pyjamas as if just got up.

Paint in silencer.

Blood in silencer.

No blood in the rifle end.

Sheila's legs pulled after second shot as suggested by expert.

Sheila's blood underneath the bible.

Effects of Haloperidol.

Sheila having Haloperidol in her body.

Sheila's condition hours before the massacre.

Sheila under sedation.

Easy window entrance into WHF.

Shutting kitchen window from outside. 20 sources. 

No alternative murder weapon options.

Professor Herbert Leon Mcdonell.

Items around the kitchen window being moved. 

Easy bike route to WHF.

Bike at Bamber's cottage.

June not waking/getting shot in bed.

Nevill's back burns.

2012 CCRC court judgement.

The twins not waking.

Bamber's huge advantages over Sheila in a kitchen fight.

Bamber's call to the police rounding suspects to two.

Nevill's injuries. 

Sheila's time limits.

No valid Sheila scenario.

                                     ---------------

Not sure how long you are going to keep ignoring the released evidence.

I know Roch told you he saw evidence in March 2017 although he did not tell either of us whether it was with Bamber's legal team. However juries & courts need to go on published evidence.

[Jan]

Perfectly clean front of hands on Sheila.   

One blood mark on back of hand of Sheila. 

Extremley low levels of lead found on hands on Sheila.  Not consistent with handling a rifle. Significantly higher traces expected.

Well manicured nails on Sheila. 

No broken nails.

Nails in tact.

No marks or indentations on Sheila's fingers. 

No blood on finger tips.

No dirt on finger tips.

No powder on finger tips.

No trace of any lead dust coating on fingers.

No traces of the lubricant on fingers from re loading twice.

Very clean feet in comparison to June.

Feet free from major blood staining.

No debris such as sugar on feet

No mention of foot injuries after bare footed aggressive movement around big house & brutal fight.

No injuries in photos to neck, shoulders, legs, arms & face.

Only Sheila Caffell's blood on nightdress.

No presence of firearm residue on nightdress.

No presence of firearm residue on Sheila.

No trace of rifle oil on nightdress

No mention of nightdress damage from agressive movement and brutal kitchen fight.

Impossibility of shower removing evidence off Sheila.

Impossibility of Sheila showering after killing herself.

Nevill being bare footed in pyjamas as if just got up.

Sheila being bare footed in pyjamas as if just got up.

Paint in silencer.

Blood in silencer.

No blood in the rifle end.

Sheila's legs pulled after second shot as suggested by expert.

Sheila's blood underneath the bible.

Effects of Haloperidol.

Sheila having Haloperidol in her body.

Sheila's condition hours before the massacre.

Sheila under sedation.

Easy window entrance into WHF.

Shutting kitchen window from outside. 20 sources. 

No alternative murder weapon options.

Professor Herbert Leon Mcdonell.

Items around the kitchen window being moved. 

Easy bike route to WHF.

Bike at Bamber's cottage.

June not waking/getting shot in bed.

Nevill's back burns.

2012 CCRC court judgement.

The twins not waking.

Bamber's huge advantages over Sheila in a kitchen fight.

Bamber's call to the police rounding suspects to two.

Nevill's injuries. 

Sheila's time limits.

No valid Sheila scenario.

                                     ---------------

Not sure how long you are going to keep ignoring the released evidence.

I know Roch told you he saw evidence in March 2017 although he did not tell either of us whether it was with Bamber's legal team. However juries & court need to go on published evidence.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz  no direct forensic evidence linking Jeremy to the crime. .

[Jan]

Perfectly clean front of hands on Sheila.   

One blood mark on back of hand of Sheila. 

Extremley low levels of lead found on hands on Sheila.  Not consistent with handling a rifle. Significantly higher traces expected.

Well manicured nails on Sheila. 

No broken nails.

Nails in tact.

No marks or indentations on Sheila's fingers. 

No blood on finger tips.

No dirt on finger tips.

No powder on finger tips.

No trace of any lead dust coating on fingers.

No traces of the lubricant on fingers from re loading twice.

Very clean feet in comparison to June.

Feet free from major blood staining.

No debris such as sugar on feet

No mention of foot injuries after bare footed aggressive movement around big house & brutal fight.

No injuries in photos to neck, shoulders, legs, arms & face.

Only Sheila Caffell's blood on nightdress.

No presence of firearm residue on nightdress.

No presence of firearm residue on Sheila.

No trace of rifle oil on nightdress

No mention of nightdress damage from agressive movement and brutal kitchen fight.

Impossibility of shower removing evidence off Sheila.

Impossibility of Sheila showering after killing herself.

Nevill being bare footed in pyjamas as if just got up.

Sheila being bare footed in pyjamas as if just got up.

Paint in silencer.

Blood in silencer.

No blood in the rifle end.

Sheila's legs pulled after second shot as suggested by expert.

Sheila's blood underneath the bible.

Effects of Haloperidol.

Sheila having Haloperidol in her body.

Sheila's condition hours before the massacre.

Sheila under sedation.

Easy window entrance into WHF.

Shutting kitchen window from outside. 20 sources. 

No alternative murder weapon options.

Professor Herbert Leon Mcdonell.

Items around the kitchen window being moved. 

Easy bike route to WHF.

Bike at Bamber's cottage.

June not waking/getting shot in bed.

Nevill's back burns.

2012 CCRC court judgement.

The twins not waking.

Bamber's huge advantages over Sheila in a kitchen fight.

Bamber's call to the police rounding suspects to two.

Nevill's injuries. 

Sheila's time limits.

No valid Sheila scenario.

                                     ---------------

Not sure how long you are going to keep ignoring the released evidence.

I know Roch told you he saw evidence in March 2017 although he did not tell either of us whether it was with Bamber's legal team. However juries & court need to go on published evidence.

I hope you have this on copy and paste . Yes of course you do .

And do you know. I trust Roch much more than I do you . Much more . Because he sticks to the point .

[Adam]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz  no direct forensic evidence linking Jeremy to the crime. .

Obviously it wasn't Sheila. Who committed the massacre then if Bamber was in bed sleeping 'like a log' ?

[Jan]

Perfectly clean front of hands on Sheila.   

One blood mark on back of hand of Sheila. 

Extremley low levels of lead found on hands on Sheila.  Not consistent with handling a rifle. Significantly higher traces expected.

Well manicured nails on Sheila. 

No broken nails.

Nails in tact.

No marks or indentations on Sheila's fingers. 

No blood on finger tips.

No dirt on finger tips.

No powder on finger tips.

No trace of any lead dust coating on fingers.

No traces of the lubricant on fingers from re loading twice.

Very clean feet in comparison to June.

Feet free from major blood staining.

No debris such as sugar on feet

No mention of foot injuries after bare footed aggressive movement around big house & brutal fight.

No injuries in photos to neck, shoulders, legs, arms & face.

Only Sheila Caffell's blood on nightdress.

No presence of firearm residue on nightdress.

No presence of firearm residue on Sheila.

No trace of rifle oil on nightdress

No mention of nightdress damage from agressive movement and brutal kitchen fight.

Impossibility of shower removing evidence off Sheila.

Impossibility of Sheila showering after killing herself.

Nevill being bare footed in pyjamas as if just got up.

Sheila being bare footed in pyjamas as if just got up.

Paint in silencer.

Blood in silencer.

No blood in the rifle end.

Sheila's legs pulled after second shot as suggested by expert.

Sheila's blood underneath the bible.

Effects of Haloperidol.

Sheila having Haloperidol in her body.

Sheila's condition hours before the massacre.

Sheila under sedation.

Easy window entrance into WHF.

Shutting kitchen window from outside. 20 sources. 

No alternative murder weapon options.

Professor Herbert Leon Mcdonell.

Items around the kitchen window being moved. 

Easy bike route to WHF.

Bike at Bamber's cottage.

June not waking/getting shot in bed.

Nevill's back burns.

2012 CCRC court judgement.

http://The twins not waking.

Bamber's huge advantages over Sheila in a kitchen fight.

Bamber's call to the police rounding suspects to two.

Nevill's injuries. 

Sheila's time limits.

No valid Sheila scenario.

                                     ---------------

Not sure how long you are going to keep ignoring the released evidence.

I know Roch told you he saw evidence in March 2017 although he did not tell either of us whether it was with Bamber's legal team. However juries & courts need to go on published evidence.

Nearly All  of the above are either irrelevant not proved or assumptions . The others are points of interest that is all