Author Topic: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm  (Read 129129 times)

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Offline Roch

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1170 on: September 11, 2017, 08:44:PM »
OK. Supposing I accept that. Provide me with what could have led up to Sheila -if you insist on her being "the main protagonist"- bearing in mind her fragile mental health and her love of her boys, managed to coerce Jeremy into joining her on a killing spree. And please don't insult my intelligence by saying it's not for you to say. If you believe it happened that way, it didn't just come out of the ether,. It has background.

If Jeremy was as dissatisfied and covetous as some have made out; if he had considered and plotted in his own mind; if he was impatient and regarded Sheila as being 'better off dead' etc. (i.e. all the stuff that Steve and others peddle) - then why would he not regard a stated intention her part to kill her self, as the perfect opportunity to achieve his aims by proxy?   So for example, he loaded the rifle and left it out for her, in the knowledge that something might indeed go wrong at the farm that night.  Hence why he is perceived as feigning grief and not showing remorse in the wake of the killings; and perceived as behaving arrogantly and living the high life etc.  Thinking he got away with the perfect crime because his sister actually did commit the killings.  He would know the silencer was bogus - if he himself didn't leave it on the rifle (which would explain why he has fought against the sound moderator so hard all these years).  He would be guilty of aiding and abetting killings having taken place, while at the same time, be a victim of being stitched up with bogus evidence and concealed facts.

She wouldn't need to 'coerce' him for assistance if it was his aim in the first place.

Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1171 on: September 11, 2017, 08:52:PM »
Which has all got to be proven. ?

Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1172 on: September 11, 2017, 08:52:PM »
If Jeremy was as dissatisfied and covetous as some have made out; if he had considered and plotted in his own mind; if he was impatient and regarded Sheila as being 'better off dead' etc. (i.e. all the stuff that Steve and others peddle) - then why would he not regard a stated intention her part to kill her self, as the perfect opportunity to achieve his aims by proxy?   So for example, he loaded the rifle and left it out for her, in the knowledge that something might indeed go wrong at the farm that night.  Hence why he is perceived as feigning grief and not showing remorse in the wake of the killings; and perceived as behaving arrogantly and living the high life etc.  Thinking he got away with the perfect crime because his sister actually did commit the killings.  He would know the silencer was bogus - if he himself didn't leave it on the rifle (which would explain why he has fought against the sound moderator so hard all these years).  He would be guilty of aiding and abetting killings having taken place, while at the same time, be a victim of being stitched up with bogus evidence and concealed facts.

She wouldn't need to 'coerce' him for assistance if it was his aim in the first place.

The BIG flaw in that plan being the highlighted section. Might is no guarantee.
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Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1173 on: September 11, 2017, 08:59:PM »
If Jeremy was as dissatisfied and covetous as some have made out; if he had considered and plotted in his own mind; if he was impatient and regarded Sheila as being 'better off dead' etc. (i.e. all the stuff that Steve and others peddle) - then why would he not regard a stated intention her part to kill her self, as the perfect opportunity to achieve his aims by proxy?   So for example, he loaded the rifle and left it out for her, in the knowledge that something might indeed go wrong at the farm that night.  Hence why he is perceived as feigning grief and not showing remorse in the wake of the killings; and perceived as behaving arrogantly and living the high life etc.  Thinking he got away with the perfect crime because his sister actually did commit the killings.  He would know the silencer was bogus - if he himself didn't leave it on the rifle (which would explain why he has fought against the sound moderator so hard all these years).  He would be guilty of aiding and abetting killings having taken place, while at the same time, be a victim of being stitched up with bogus evidence and concealed facts.

She wouldn't need to 'coerce' him for assistance if it was his aim in the first place.

OK. But it relies heavily on him being told by her that she intended to commit suicide, and even then, there was no guarantee that she'd go through with it, so he could easily have decided to help her in a more positive way than just leaving out a gun which she may or may not use. He could then congratulate himself as having helped her to achieve her heart's desire.

Offline Roch

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1174 on: September 11, 2017, 09:01:PM »
The BIG flaw in that plan being the highlighted section. Might is no guarantee.

Nevertheless, it's arguably well worth taking the risk - if she has informed him that she could take no more of her life and that it would happen that night.  He's supposed to be an opportunist and a psychotic risk taker isn't he?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1175 on: September 11, 2017, 09:03:PM »
If Jeremy was as dissatisfied and covetous as some have made out; if he had considered and plotted in his own mind; if he was impatient and regarded Sheila as being 'better off dead' etc. (i.e. all the stuff that Steve and others peddle) - then why would he not regard a stated intention her part to kill her self, as the perfect opportunity to achieve his aims by proxy?   So for example, he loaded the rifle and left it out for her, in the knowledge that something might indeed go wrong at the farm that night.  Hence why he is perceived as feigning grief and not showing remorse in the wake of the killings; and perceived as behaving arrogantly and living the high life etc.  Thinking he got away with the perfect crime because his sister actually did commit the killings.  He would know the silencer was bogus - if he himself didn't leave it on the rifle (which would explain why he has fought against the sound moderator so hard all these years).  He would be guilty of aiding and abetting killings having taken place, while at the same time, be a victim of being stitched up with bogus evidence and concealed facts.

She wouldn't need to 'coerce' him for assistance if it was his aim in the first place.
We peddle it because we see the threads of the tragedy are interwoven, in a family where admittedly two adoptees at various times wished members of their families dead. But it was Jeremy who started out by thinking of cyanide, of sleeping pills, and then the ultimate plan, which he had baulked at heretofore because he was so squeamish: they would all have to be shot and he would have to be the perpetrator.

He knew his sister's idle talk and her propensity to want to be granted an audience, something she had never been able to do at school, at work or at home. Therein the conversation with Helen Grimster, where she could hold court, now that she had driven Colin away through her lengthy conversations on the meaning of life and her smashing of pots to achieve a reaction-any reaction from any random human she encountered.

It's this progression in the crime which the Jeremy supporters fail to acknowledge, along with the temptation of an undivided inheritance which five deaths would bring. He, like his sister, had never felt in charge, a bystander rather than participant in events, anxious not to be exposed for the nonentity he really was. He had no real plans in the aftermath apart from furtherance in sexual conquest, though the money his wickedness brought him would have secured friends for a time until their patience ran out and he was left a solitary figure once more, a braggart with nothing left to brag about.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 09:06:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Roch

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1176 on: September 11, 2017, 09:05:PM »
OK. But it relies heavily on him being told by her that she intended to commit suicide, and even then, there was no guarantee that she'd go through with it, so he could easily have decided to help her in a more positive way than just leaving out a gun which she may or may not use. He could then congratulate himself as having helped her to achieve her heart's desire.

I always keep in mind that Justice pointed out the conversation in the field.  Maybe she had decided.  But she needed Jeremy's assistance?

Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1177 on: September 11, 2017, 09:09:PM »
Nevertheless, it's arguably well worth taking the risk - if she has informed him that she could take no more of her life and that it would happen that night.  He's supposed to be an opportunist and a psychotic risk taker isn't he?

Who said he was psychotic? I don't think he would leave things to that much chance and rely on her killing herself, far too many 'what ifs'.
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Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1178 on: September 11, 2017, 09:11:PM »
Nevertheless, it's arguably well worth taking the risk - if she has informed him that she could take no more of her life and that it would happen that night.  He's supposed to be an opportunist and a psychotic risk taker isn't he?

No one has EVER suggested that he was psychotic. Besides which, the British judicial system can't run on perhaps and maybe.

Offline Roch

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1179 on: September 11, 2017, 09:13:PM »
Who said he was psychotic? I don't think he would leave things to that much chance and rely on her killing herself, far too many 'what ifs'.

No one has EVER suggested that he was psychotic. Besides which, the British judicial system can't run on perhaps and maybe.

It was a typo.  I meant psychopathic.

Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1180 on: September 11, 2017, 09:14:PM »
Perhaps Roch meant psychopathic ?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1181 on: September 11, 2017, 09:15:PM »
I always keep in mind that Justice pointed out the conversation in the field.  Maybe she had decided.  But she needed Jeremy's assistance?
But they didn't get along, as Jeremy told the Police outside the house, knowing all were dead within. She wasn't the only one who felt something sinister in his presence, as Colin's book attests, she baulked whenever the telephone rang and would pass the receiver to Colin, we don't know what transpired in the conversation in the fields, but Jeremy's insecurity resurfaced as he pondered the future of the boys. Again at their last conversation at the supper table it was Jeremy who instigated the discussion on adoption, hoping to sow discord among the family and unsettle her yet again. In the last note in her diary she repented on being "horrible" to him, as she possibly referred to rumours she had heard since she had arrived in the village of his sexual deviance and thrust in his face as weapon of choice whenever things got heated.

Yes Sheila was unwell, she couldn't function independently however much she wished it were so, but Jeremy was a fly in the ointment, not a palliative to solve all her problems.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 09:16:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1182 on: September 11, 2017, 09:17:PM »
It was a typo.  I meant psychopathic.

AS a result, he wouldn't have left the control to Sheila.
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Offline Roch

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1183 on: September 11, 2017, 09:40:PM »
I strongly recommend you look at the blood runs on Sheila's face via her mouth and nostrils. They look identical to what is on her arm. Because they are.

There is no evidence any serious fight broke out. The mess was caused by raid team and Nevill was too badly injured from the first three shots to put up such a fight.

I've had a look as suggested but cannot see any real similarity to be honest.  The are both sets of 'runs' but do not take the same form.   

All three adults have what could be described as fight / defence wounds - which is why I am arguing the case for physical conflict to have occurred between them.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 09:41:PM by Roch »

Offline Roch

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1184 on: September 11, 2017, 09:42:PM »
AS a result, he wouldn't have left the control to Sheila.

It's the lesser of two evils when compared to placing himself in the crime scene and risking injury.